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Old
03-29-2010, 12:16 PM
  #1
backhandsauce
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Dan Ellis

Hey guys, I live in Vancouver but am an Oilers fan. Anyways, I wanted to let you know that if you ever make it to Vancouver there is a nice pub on Cambie called Stella's. The owner is Dan Ellis's Uncle. Anyways got chatting to him and told him I'd like Dan to sign in Edmonton if the Oilers could buy out Khabibulin for his off ice issues. Dan's Uncle said expect him to be a Red Wing.

As soon as July 1st hits expect Ellis to sign in Detroit. He already has his mind made up and is waiting for the Preds year to finish. He is unhappy there and doesn't like the fact that he rides the pine while Rinne starts.

This is all speculation but I just wanted to share some info I heard from a family member of Dan Ellis.

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03-29-2010, 12:20 PM
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Wont happen. Ozzie is still on the hook for another year and after he leaves you probably will see Larsson back-up Howard.

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03-29-2010, 12:26 PM
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If there is a brain anywhere in the Flyers organization they will begin trying to pry Osgood away from Detroit two seconds after the trade market opens.

If Detroit isn't going to play him, and it certainly appears they are not, then they absolutely have to move him and get something.

Quick edit: The trade is Osgood and Stuart for Jeff Carter and something. Late pick.

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03-29-2010, 12:27 PM
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Agreed, if Howard plays the same next year as he is this year, Ellis would still be a back up. I dont think he would be happy. I dont think Ozzie will be back next year, and a vet for a back up will be nice, but I dont see this happening.

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03-29-2010, 12:38 PM
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Ricelund
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
If there is a brain anywhere in the Flyers organization they will begin trying to pry Osgood away from Detroit two seconds after the trade market opens.

If Detroit isn't going to play him, and it certainly appears they are not, then they absolutely have to move him and get something.

Quick edit: The trade is Osgood and Stuart for Jeff Carter and something. Late pick.
What makes you think Osgood is better than what the Flyers already have? And am I correct in assuming that trade proposal was sarcastic?

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03-29-2010, 01:25 PM
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Howard's success this season owes quite a bit to Ozzy as well.. so if Ozzy decides to move to somewhere else, many will miss him... until he lets in a softie next season. Then I expect to see 'Oldtimehockey' come in full force. (I think she's Ozzy's mom)

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03-29-2010, 01:39 PM
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So he wants to ride the pine while Howard starts instead? Ugh. Wings goalie rumours...

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Old
03-29-2010, 02:08 PM
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What makes you think Osgood is better than what the Flyers already have?
Oh boy.

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And am I correct in assuming that trade proposal was sarcastic?
Well, considering you apparently think Ray Emery, Brian Boucher and Michael Leighton are as good as Chris Osgood, I can only imagine that you aren't going to think the trade makes much sense.

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03-29-2010, 02:09 PM
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So he wants to ride the pine while Howard starts instead? Ugh. Wings goalie rumours...
Bring back Legace!!!

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03-29-2010, 02:15 PM
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ProPAIN
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Originally Posted by eddyoils View Post
Hey guys, I live in Vancouver but am an Oilers fan. Anyways, I wanted to let you know that if you ever make it to Vancouver there is a nice pub on Cambie called Stella's. The owner is Dan Ellis's Uncle. Anyways got chatting to him and told him I'd like Dan to sign in Edmonton if the Oilers could buy out Khabibulin for his off ice issues. Dan's Uncle said expect him to be a Red Wing.

As soon as July 1st hits expect Ellis to sign in Detroit. He already has his mind made up and is waiting for the Preds year to finish. He is unhappy there and doesn't like the fact that he rides the pine while Rinne starts.

This is all speculation but I just wanted to share some info I heard from a family member of Dan Ellis.
I can't post just a smiley, but:

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03-29-2010, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Oh boy.



Well, considering you apparently think Ray Emery, Brian Boucher and Michael Leighton are as good as Chris Osgood, I can only imagine that you aren't going to think the trade makes much sense.
Has Osgood shown otherwise over the past two regular seasons? He's been outplayed by Ty Conklin and Jimmy Howard.

I mean, do you honestly think the Flyers would gift up Carter for one year of Osgood (who has posted two consecutive .890 seasons) and Stuart, a number 3-4 defenseman? Keep in mind Stuart's much more valuable to the Wings than he is to the Flyers. Go post this on the Flyers board, you'll get laughed at.


Last edited by Ricelund: 03-29-2010 at 02:39 PM.
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03-29-2010, 02:33 PM
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Has Osgood shown otherwise over the past two regular seasons? He's been outplayed by Ty Conklin and Jimmy Howard.
well, not many have played better then Jimmy Howard this season. But the whole Ty Conklin thing is a little embarrassing.

The playoffs have always been an entirely different story in regards to Osgood. Lets hope some things never change.

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03-29-2010, 02:36 PM
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Ozzy getting fed up and demanding a trade/retiring is the only way we will search for another goalie. That goalie would probably not be of Ellis' caliber. Ellis may have said that he wants to play in Detroit and is hoping for a contract with them, but I'm not sure if the feeling is mutual while Ozzy is still on board. Should Ozzy leave, Ellis would only be signed if he takes a pay cut and accepts a back-up role. Some other team has got to be a better fit for Ellis.


EDIT: Also, I would take HD's trade in a second. Philly would never do it though.

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03-29-2010, 02:41 PM
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sarcastro
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Bring back Legace!!!
Bring back Jake McCracken!!!

http://bestofbothworlds.ca/hm/inside.php?sid=23&id=123

That torn groin must have healed up by now. Give the man a chance!

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03-29-2010, 03:09 PM
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HockeyinHD
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Has Osgood shown otherwise over the past two regular seasons? He's been outplayed by Ty Conklin and Jimmy Howard.
Again, you obviously have a much different assessment of Osgood's value to a team. It's no biggie.

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I mean, do you honestly think the Flyers would gift up Carter for one year of Osgood (who has posted two consecutive .890 seasons) and Stuart, a number 3-4 defenseman?
I think they absolutely would, and they'd do it in a heartbeat if they had any brains at all.

Timmonen, Pronger, Stuart, Carle is a Cup Finals-level top 4, and right now the Flyers don't have a 4th defenseman. IMO, Osgood's an order of magnitude of an upgrade in net in the postseason. Stuart's under contract at a non-cataclysmic rate which would actually be nearly offset by Rathje's expiring number. Clearing Carter's contract off the books would actually allow the Flyers to go out and 'replace' Carter at forward with 5 + Randy Jones' buyout cap hit clearance (1.375 mil)... so they could land a legit elite player.

In: Osgood, Stuart, and 6.375 of cap space to fill out the forwards.
Out: Carter, and possibly a late pick.

Really? Philly isn't immediately a better team after making that move? Really?

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Keep in mind Stuart's much more valuable to the Wings than he is to the Flyers. Go post this on the Flyers board, you'll get laughed at.
Absolutely. Fans tend to have overblown assessments of how good their own players are, so I would be stunned to see any group of fans think any trade that wasn't outright highway robbery in their favor was a good idea.

I'm approaching this a bit more rationally. There isn't one trustworthy playoff starter in goal in the 2010 UFA class. Not one. If the Flyers want to be Cup competitive in 2011, they have to get a solid playoff goaltender... and the list of those guys who might be even remotely available isn't long at all.

Even if there was such a guy, the Flyers need to shake up their forward chemistry, don't have any real cap space to do so, and have handed out NTC/NMCs to a lot of guys there. And the length of Briere and Richards' deals makes them functionally immovable in any deal with Detroit. Also, Briere has a NMC and Richards NMC kicks in 2011-12, and his attitude is a big concern.

Gagne's a marshmellow head, so he's out.

Now, another guy Philly has that might be a viable option is Scott Hartnell. He has an NTC while Carter does not. But his deal is also an overpay/overterm similar to Cleary. A little too much and a little too long.

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03-29-2010, 03:09 PM
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Bring back Jake McCracken!!!
Poor guy. He never got a fair chance to win that Calder.

Holland was such a meanie.

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03-29-2010, 03:46 PM
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sarcastro
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Poor guy. He never got a fair chance to win that Calder.

Holland was such a meanie.
Shoulda just gone for the groin replacement surgery, then he would have been a sure-fire HOFer.

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03-29-2010, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
In: Osgood, Stuart, and 6.375 of cap space to fill out the forwards.
Out: Carter, and possibly a late pick.

Really? Philly isn't immediately a better team after making that move? Really?
Maybe I'm missing something, but aren't you forgetting that the Flyers would be taking on $5.15 million in salary by acquiring Stuart and Osgood?

Edit: I missed what you said about Rathje. I forgot his salary is still on the books there. The way you outline deal makes sense. If they could pick up Marleau they'd be essentially in the place they are in now plus Stuart and Osgood. Regardless, can't see them giving up Carter for those two.


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03-29-2010, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
If there is a brain anywhere in the Flyers organization they will begin trying to pry Osgood away from Detroit two seconds after the trade market opens.

If Detroit isn't going to play him, and it certainly appears they are not, then they absolutely have to move him and get something.

Quick edit: The trade is Osgood and Stuart for Jeff Carter and something. Late pick.
Flyers are looking to add a young goalie, the rumor is Carey Price will be a flyer next season. Seems like a much better option for the Flyers in the long run.

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03-29-2010, 04:27 PM
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If Detroit doesn't have a slot, I can't see Ellis saying he's going there. However him going back to the Dallas organization might be a little more realistic. They don't have a goaltender signed for next season. No one ready from Austin to back Lehtonen up/start when he's injured for the season.

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03-29-2010, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arice89 View Post
Maybe I'm missing something, but aren't you forgetting that the Flyers would be taking on $5.15 million in salary by acquiring Stuart and Osgood?

Edit: I missed what you said about Rathje. I forgot his salary is still on the books there. The way you outline deal makes sense. If they could pick up Marleau they'd be essentially in the place they are in now plus Stuart and Osgood. Regardless, can't see them giving up Carter for those two.
that's what I think it really boils down to. If Philly wanted to shake up their forwards and move some salary, Gagne's the guy who would probably be moved. Considering his upside and how desperate some teams are for scoring, Philly could probably move him relatively easily (though also cheaply which might be good if they aren't looking to add salary back through a trade).

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03-29-2010, 05:48 PM
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HockeyinHD
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Shoulda just gone for the groin replacement surgery, then he would have been a sure-fire HOFer.
But only if he found a groin donor among the group of NHLers.

Then again, until you use your it in the NHL for 40-60 games you can never know if it's a big league groin anyway...

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03-29-2010, 05:51 PM
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Flyers are looking to add a young goalie, the rumor is Carey Price will be a flyer next season. Seems like a much better option for the Flyers in the long run.
Not a big fan of Price. He may turn into a good NHL goalie, but by the time he gets there Philly will be long in the tooth. They need a goalie who they can depend on in the playoffs right now.

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03-29-2010, 06:03 PM
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that's what I think it really boils down to. If Philly wanted to shake up their forwards and move some salary, Gagne's the guy who would probably be moved. Considering his upside and how desperate some teams are for scoring, Philly could probably move him relatively easily (though also cheaply which might be good if they aren't looking to add salary back through a trade).
Here are the problems with moving Gagne:

1) He has a NTC.
2) Concussions.
3) He's significantly overpaid.

I think a guy like Gagne can be moved, I just don't think that trade would be anything more than a salary dump. It's not going to bring them any assets back, none of the teams that spend to the cap will have the space for it, and they might have to package something with him to sweeten the deal and/or take back a similarly toxic contract.

And it still doesn't address the goalie issue. Nobody is going to move a good goalie back in a deal with Gagne in it.

Briere, Richards, Hartnell and Gagne all either have NTCs/NMCs now or they will have them soon. Carter's the only forward they can move freely, and really all four of those other forwards have some pretty significant dings in their chrome as far as trade value goes.

Briere makes a ton of money over a ton of years, struggles with injuries, and isn't producing this season.

Richards may be Mike Comrie v2.0, makes a bunch of cash, and is signed through eternity.

Hartnell isn't producing, is overpaid, and is signed through 2013.

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03-29-2010, 07:15 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Here are the problems with moving Gagne:

1) He has a NTC.
2) Concussions.
3) He's significantly overpaid.

I think a guy like Gagne can be moved, I just don't think that trade would be anything more than a salary dump. It's not going to bring them any assets back, none of the teams that spend to the cap will have the space for it, and they might have to package something with him to sweeten the deal and/or take back a similarly toxic contract.

And it still doesn't address the goalie issue. Nobody is going to move a good goalie back in a deal with Gagne in it.
Not disagreeing with any of that. Nor am I disagreeing that Carter would likely get the best value back. I don't think Philly will move Carter, though. Part of the problem is that, just as you've pointed out, Carter's a good value and a big piece of Philly. It doesn't make a lot of sense to move him. Another is value in the trade.

You mention bringing back a good goalie...are you sure we can lump Osgood under that heading right now? It wouldn't be as much of a problem if Philly had another solid goalie signed cheap but their other goalie is Brian Boucher. Certainly not the type of guy you want to bank on if/when Ozzy repeats his regular season troubles from the past few years.

Which is why I go back to Gagne and my comment in my earlier post about shaking up the forwards and moving some salary. I think you're overly harsh on Gagne. If he's healthy, he earns his contract. He's just never healthy. But, because of that, Philly knows they can make do without him. He's also older and going to be a UFA. MOving him doesn't hurt as much or as long as moving a guy like Carter.

And moving Gagne frees up the money to sign a goalie like Turco or Chris Mason - guys who might not have the same resume as Osgood but who have been stronger in the regular season. Which is something Philly needs. They may even take a look at Dan Ellis who has also shown to be a pretty reliable netminder in the regular season. Then go out and fill in their holes with whatever they have left.

If Ozzy hadn't crapped the bed for two straight regular seasons, I could maybe see this having some interest for Philly. But, right now, Osgood is just too huge of a question mark when their fallback option is Brian Boucher.

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