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Old
03-29-2010, 08:35 PM
  #26
HockeyinHD
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
You mention bringing back a good goalie...are you sure we can lump Osgood under that heading right now?
Turco, Nabokov, Theodore, Toskala, Mason, Ellis, Emery, Biron, Budaj, Lalime, Hedberg.

That's essentially the UFA class for goalies.

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It wouldn't be as much of a problem if Philly had another solid goalie signed cheap but their other goalie is Brian Boucher. Certainly not the type of guy you want to bank on if/when Ozzy repeats his regular season troubles from the past few years.
Then bring Emery back and waive Boucher and send him to the AHL.

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Which is why I go back to Gagne and my comment in my earlier post about shaking up the forwards and moving some salary. I think you're overly harsh on Gagne. If he's healthy, he earns his contract. He's just never healthy. But, because of that, Philly knows they can make do without him. He's also older and going to be a UFA. MOving him doesn't hurt as much or as long as moving a guy like Carter.
All excellent examples of why his trade value is much lower. He's 30, he has a concussion history, he has a larger contract, and his production has dipped significantly post-injuries.

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And moving Gagne frees up the money to sign a goalie like Turco or Chris Mason - guys who might not have the same resume as Osgood but who have been stronger in the regular season. Which is something Philly needs. They may even take a look at Dan Ellis who has also shown to be a pretty reliable netminder in the regular season. Then go out and fill in their holes with whatever they have left.
All possible outcomes, of course, but I think Philly pulling a Osgood/Conklin-esque tandem makes a lot more sense for them.

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If Ozzy hadn't crapped the bed for two straight regular seasons, I could maybe see this having some interest for Philly. But, right now, Osgood is just too huge of a question mark when their fallback option is Brian Boucher.
Yep, but changing the Boucher part of the equation is a pretty simple move.

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Old
03-29-2010, 09:37 PM
  #27
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Ozzy is more than likely 2 be back next season if we do Trade him it wont be in any sort of deal 4 Jeff Carter just cant see the Flyers doin dat, Ozzy has been amazin in Playoffs but has blown passed 2 reg seasons, so a regular season Ozzy aint much better than Leighton, Emery, Boucher and the Flyers have 2 worry bout makin the playoffs be4 worryin bout a playoff run. If 4 some reason Ozzy aint back and Ellis is happy bein Howie's backup playin around 15 games than hes more than welcome IMO. I think DETs offseason priorities will be #1 Lids-Homer #2 RFAs(Miller,Helm,Eaves) #3 either bringin back Hudler or signin like Frolov or Afinogenov. Depending what happens wit Lilja, Meech, Lebda we may also need a 6th or 7th D-Man dependin on how they plan of usin Kindl.

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03-29-2010, 09:41 PM
  #28
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Has anyone consider the possibility of Howie getting a sophmore slump? I wouldn't want Ozzie backing him up in that situation. I wouldn't mind Ellis if he is cheap.

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03-29-2010, 10:17 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arice89 View Post
Has Osgood shown otherwise over the past two regular seasons? He's been outplayed by Ty Conklin and Jimmy Howard.

I mean, do you honestly think the Flyers would gift up Carter for one year of Osgood (who has posted two consecutive .890 seasons) and Stuart, a number 3-4 defenseman? Keep in mind Stuart's much more valuable to the Wings than he is to the Flyers. Go post this on the Flyers board, you'll get laughed at.
Plus Stuart has an NTC, why would he ever leave Detroit?

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03-30-2010, 12:11 AM
  #30
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The Flyers may need a goalie, but I really can't see them giving up a franchise center for an old, unreliable goalie and Brad Stuart, when they could move a couple less important pieces and sign a younger UFA goalie. Just doesn't make sense for them.

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03-30-2010, 12:41 AM
  #31
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I thought the same thing about moving Osgood to Philly but no way in hell are we going to nor should give up Brad Stuart to do it. I would much rather put together a package like this.

To Philly: Osgood, Flip Flop and Kindl.

To Detroit: Carter and 3rd or 4th round pick.

Now before Jaster goes off on my saying I only want to get rid of Flip Flop and Kindl because I hate them let me try to explain it a little.

Osgood gives them a goalie that can win in the playoffs that's what Philly has needed for decades. Yes they could add a young goalie but that doesnt solve their problems in the playoffs they need a proven winner and that's Ozzie. Flip Flop has been a very confusing player for me this season. Some nights he looks like he has the potential to become Datsyuk with the type of skills he shows. Other nights he's as bad as that marshmellow Jason Williams (who I really hate). The guy just doesnt shoot the puck enough and when he's in the 3rd line center roll that takes away from Helm because that is where Helm belongs. We're paying Flip Flop 3 million a season and he doesnt produce enough to earn that. As for Kindl I highly highly doubt he will ever be a top 4 blueliner. I saw a couple of GR games this year and I wasnt impressed with him. This trade makes alot of sense for both teams and having a top 6 like this would be great.

Carter/Datsyuk/Homer
Franzen/Zetterberg/Cleary

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03-30-2010, 01:18 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Wings View Post
I thought the same thing about moving Osgood to Philly but no way in hell are we going to nor should give up Brad Stuart to do it. I would much rather put together a package like this.

To Philly: Osgood, Flip Flop and Kindl.

To Detroit: Carter and 3rd or 4th round pick.

Now before Jaster goes off on my saying I only want to get rid of Flip Flop and Kindl because I hate them let me try to explain it a little.

Osgood gives them a goalie that can win in the playoffs that's what Philly has needed for decades. Yes they could add a young goalie but that doesnt solve their problems in the playoffs they need a proven winner and that's Ozzie. Flip Flop has been a very confusing player for me this season. Some nights he looks like he has the potential to become Datsyuk with the type of skills he shows. Other nights he's as bad as that marshmellow Jason Williams (who I really hate). The guy just doesnt shoot the puck enough and when he's in the 3rd line center roll that takes away from Helm because that is where Helm belongs. We're paying Flip Flop 3 million a season and he doesnt produce enough to earn that. As for Kindl I highly highly doubt he will ever be a top 4 blueliner. I saw a couple of GR games this year and I wasnt impressed with him. This trade makes alot of sense for both teams and having a top 6 like this would be great.

Carter/Datsyuk/Homer
Franzen/Zetterberg/Cleary
Some points:

1. I don't agree with the alleged inconsistency of Filppula. The guy has played real well all season. Whether it's been as the 3rd-line center with mediocre linemates or as Hank's winger, he's looked good. In fact, of all the forwards who have shown up in the top-6, other than Holmstrom, he's been the most consistent forward on the Wings. He can, of course, stand to shoot more though.

Filppula is producing enough to earn his pay, and easily. A smooth-skating two-way center on a 60-point pace who can play in all situations? What more do you want for $3M? He belongs in the top-6, but it's not his fault he's usually under-utilized on the 3rd line.

2. That said, if we're losing Filppula for Jeff Carter, that's an upgrade.

3. I wouldn't be too broken up about Helm not centering the 3rd line full-time because of Filppula. He's still very poor in the defensive end during 5v5 play, and that really needs to improve.

4. I actually agree with you on Kindl. I've been very disappointed by his play in the GR games I've seen this year. I'm not expecting much out of him, but I am hoping for the best and look forward to him getting a chance in the NHL.

5. I think Osgood has been far too inconsistent the past couple years to automatically assume he'd be a playoff boon for any team next season, when he'll be 38 years old. If I look at this from an outsider's perspective, I'd feel like acquiring Osgood with those kind of expectations would be a huge gamble.

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Old
03-30-2010, 03:03 AM
  #33
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Ozzie has no trade value..
Besides, sophomore slump.

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Old
03-30-2010, 06:36 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by dtones520 View Post
Plus Stuart has an NTC, why would he ever leave Detroit?
His NTC expires at the end of the 2009-2010 season.

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Old
03-30-2010, 09:17 AM
  #35
Winger98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Turco, Nabokov, Theodore, Toskala, Mason, Ellis, Emery, Biron, Budaj, Lalime, Hedberg.

That's essentially the UFA class for goalies.

Then bring Emery back and waive Boucher and send him to the AHL.

All excellent examples of why his trade value is much lower. He's 30, he has a concussion history, he has a larger contract, and his production has dipped significantly post-injuries.

All possible outcomes, of course, but I think Philly pulling a Osgood/Conklin-esque tandem makes a lot more sense for them.

Yep, but changing the Boucher part of the equation is a pretty simple move.
The bolded goalies are all guys I would assume Philly would look at before considering Osgood (admittedly, Theodore was initially left out of that group but his numbers surprised me). Would they cost more than Osgood? Yes, but they also get to keep Carter while getting a goalie who can reasonably be expected to play ~55 games and win a majority of them.

About Gagne, his production the past five years hasn't been bad. Putting up .75, .94, .72, .89 and 1.10 PPGs over the last 5 years is arguably worth the $5.25m cap hit, especially considering Gagne's solid defensive play. As I said, the biggest question isn't production but health. When Gagne's on the ice he produces.

But, Gagne aside, they still don't move Carter for Osgood/Stuart. They can grab a better goalie through UFA and are likely looking at a cheaper vet dman while Parent and Coburn mature some more. Maybe they'll even sign Lilja.

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03-30-2010, 10:22 AM
  #36
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It always blows my mind when I hear stories like this. I love when family members talk for the players. Pretttttyyyy sure Dan Ellis uncle or whomever was putting words in his mouth, wants Ellis to play for Detroit. Who wouldn't want to?

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03-30-2010, 12:10 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Ozzie has no trade value..
Besides, sophomore slump.
This. Philly probably wouldn't claim Ozzie on waivers, frankly. Since he signed the 3 year extension, he's looked like garbage in the regular season.

Philly will pursue someone like Ellis or Price/Halak. We'd have to compensate them to take Ozzie off our hands.

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03-30-2010, 12:20 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
This. Philly probably wouldn't claim Ozzie on waivers, frankly. Since he signed the 3 year extension, he's looked like garbage in the regular season.

Philly will pursue someone like Ellis or Price/Halak. We'd have to compensate them to take Ozzie off our hands.
You're overrating Philly's management skills. They let the deadline come and pass with Michael ****ing Leighton as their undisputed #1 goalie. I have absolutely no clue if Osgood would be able to pull another 180 if he got regular starts in the 2nd half but I do know that as bad as Osgood has been he's still an upgrade over Brian Boucher and Michael Leighton.

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Old
03-30-2010, 12:41 PM
  #39
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You're overrating Philly's management skills. They let the deadline come and pass with Michael ****ing Leighton as their undisputed #1 goalie. I have absolutely no clue if Osgood would be able to pull another 180 if he got regular starts in the 2nd half but I do know that as bad as Osgood has been he's still an upgrade over Brian Boucher and Michael Leighton.
OK, so even if Philly were run by Burke, we'd get what... maybe a 7th rounder for Ozzie? He's got no value, even to people who aren't good at judging value. After back-to-back trips to the Finals he's been totally displaced by a rookie, and doesn't even get spot starts. His coach doesn't even give dusting him off a second thought... and maybe not even a first though.

Dude is done. He's so done that free agent goalies to be are allegedly salivating at the thought of displacing him as our backup.

That doesn't even touch on some of the more practical aspects of this idea.

1. While Holland hasn't shown Ozzie too much love in the past, he is a veteran on what was a cap friendly deal when he signed it. Holland generally doesn't trade that type of player. He's rather slow to let go. However, he did waive Ozzie before, so I suppose it could happen again

2. Ozzie would just retire. I sincerely doubt he'd leave the area again. Philly, or anyone, isn't going to trade for a player that will never report for duty. This is one of the big reasons why I don't think Ozzie would even be claimed if he were waived. He'd just hang 'em up as soon as Kenny told him he was about to be put on the wire.

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Old
03-30-2010, 12:59 PM
  #40
jaster
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For a long time, the Wings needed every point they could get, and since Howard gave them the best chance to win, they rode him. They had to, so long as he wasn't fatigued, and he obviously wasn't. I think it will be interesting to see what kind of action Osgood gets between now and the playoffs, now that the Wings seemingly have a playoff spot locked up. I would think he would at least start one of the remaining back-to-back games (Nashville or Philly.... probably Philly).

Either way, I still expect Osgood to be on the roster next season, as the backup, getting 15-20 games (or more if Howard really stumbles), and his 400th win.

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Old
03-30-2010, 01:28 PM
  #41
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Ellis may be unhappy riding the pine behind Rinne but he has no one to blame but himself. the preds traded Chris Mason and made Ellis the starter heading into the 08-09 season, and Ellis couldnt keep the job and was supplanted by Rinne. Ellis got another chance coming out of camp this year but couldnt hold the starting spot when Rine faltered. Now Rinne has hit his stride again and by extending Rinne the preds have made it clear Ellis isnt going to be back.

Ellis wants a #1 job, I am sure but probably hasnt played well enough for another team to sign him expecting himto be #1.


If Ellis signs with the Wings it would only be because he thinks Howard will slump and he could take over. But in reality thats probably Dans best option... sign somewhere that the current number one could regress.. be it Edmonton, Philly, Washington, Columbus, or any number of other teams with shaky starters... but I wouldnt bet on Howard regressing before a lot of others..

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