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I want the Rangers to MISS the playoffs(All for/against discussion here)

View Poll Results: Do you want the Rangers to MAKE or MISS the playoffs?
MAKE the playoffs 86 50.29%
MISS the playoffs 85 49.71%
Voters: 171. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-30-2010, 11:24 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Well, you make valid points. I probably ought to back down a bit. I still believe that whatever positives may develop isn't enough to warrant "hoping" your team misses the playoffs, but whatever.

As for the part in bold: I can, and I do.

Just giving you my side of things. Rage on my friend.

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03-30-2010, 11:29 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Yes! Exactly! The team has a ******** of problems that a good draft pick and a missed playoffs aren't going to fix.

How anyone could root against their own team, is just mind boggling.
Because you're rooting for the long term success of the franchise. To me, the opportunity at getting a #1 center like Seguin, who could impact the Rangers for the next 8-10 years is more important than the opportunity to watch a Capitals team dominate the Rangers over four games. If this team was playing good hockey, I'd understand the desire for playoff hockey. But, this team has given me no reason to believe they can accomplish anything in the playoffs.

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Old
03-30-2010, 11:38 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Because you're rooting for the long term success of the franchise. To me, the opportunity at getting a #1 center like Seguin, who could impact the Rangers for the next 8-10 years is more important than the opportunity to watch a Capitals team dominate the Rangers over four games. If this team was playing good hockey, I'd understand the desire for playoff hockey. But, this team has given me no reason to believe they can accomplish anything in the playoffs.
Perfect Post.

People who think "tanking" or "rooting against the team" means you're not a true fan just don't get it. When your a fan of this team for 20 years or more you've been through so much that the next season almost becomes predictable. All we want is a better structure and a plan, and if that is assisted by missing the playoffs so be it. I want to see this team succeed more than anything else, but above that i just want the product on the ice to be enjoyable to watch.

We all dedicate tons of money and time to this team is that too much to ask?

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Old
03-30-2010, 11:42 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Perfect Post.

People who think "tanking" or "rooting against the team" means you're not a true fan just don't get it. When your a fan of this team for 20 years or more you've been through so much that the next season almost becomes predictable. All we want is a better structure and a plan, and if that is assisted by missing the playoffs so be it. I want to see this team succeed more than anything else, but above that i just want the product on the ice to be enjoyable to watch.

We all dedicate tons of money and time to this team is that too much to ask?
It's not even rooting against them. I want Dubinsky, MDZ, AA, Callahan and Staal to play well. Those are the players this team will need to be successful.

Plus, it's not just getting a potential lottery pick. It's also getting what could amount to a late 1st round pick by finishing so low.

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Old
03-30-2010, 11:44 AM
  #80
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I want the rangers to 100% MAKE THE PLAYOFFS! Let's go BABY!

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Old
03-30-2010, 11:49 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
It's not even rooting against them. I want Dubinsky, MDZ, AA, Callahan and Staal to play well. Those are the players this team will need to be successful.

Plus, it's not just getting a potential lottery pick. It's also getting what could amount to a late 1st round pick by finishing so low.
The argument that these younger guys need playoff experience is a good one but maybe not making the playoffs will kickstart guys like Dubinsky and Staal into taking over the leadership of the team which is what those two in particular need to do. They might see that's it's not just up to the vets to lead--that they need to be more pro-active themselves if the team is going to be successful.

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Old
03-30-2010, 11:53 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
It's not even rooting against them. I want Dubinsky, MDZ, AA, Callahan and Staal to play well. Those are the players this team will need to be successful.

Plus, it's not just getting a potential lottery pick. It's also getting what could amount to a late 1st round pick by finishing so low.
Agreed and this goes hand in hand with how you approach a trade deadline. I'm glad he didnt do anything, but at the same time if they had gotten a few picks it would have really benefitted this team.

I always see it as a huge swing.

Say he goes into the draft in the 8th position, and a player falls down to a spot where he wants to move up to grab him. The Rangers havent always done this, but being so close to that player this year might change their strategy this time around. It would have been a lot easier to dump a 2nd rounder off to move up had the received one or two at the deadline. Instead hell have to give up his only second to get there, and in effect most likely wont (or be forced to give up a roster player or prospect) - so the Rangers will lose out on a potential star because they finished 3 places too high and didnt sell at the deadline.

Every little decision made effects everything double. If he had gone into the draft armed with a first and 3 seconds, the Rangers could come out with 2 legit first rounders and a second. Instead it will be an average first and a second - and you still miss the playoffs.

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Old
03-30-2010, 11:53 AM
  #83
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I am rooting for this team to play its best down the stretch. If that gets them into the playoffs, great, if not, so be it. I wouldn't be disappointed if Torts decided to not use certain players who may not be in next year's plans in upcoming games and gave shots to others who have been waiting and deserving of an opportunity and who are part of the future. That may seem like tanking, but given the consistency of many of this team's players, like Redden or Olli and others, I don't think it really makes that much of a difference.

I can't root for the Flyers (or Montreal, or the Bruins) to make the playoffs.

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Old
03-30-2010, 11:57 AM
  #84
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never!!

sorry guys i cant not want them to make the playoffs. a few spots in the draft wont matter. look at DZ............go for it and try to win . Yea they will likely lose and hard in the 1st round but whatever, get in

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03-30-2010, 11:57 AM
  #85
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This team sucks, plain and simple. The only consistent player is Hank, and he'd be drained for the playoffs. Good luck against Ovechkin, Semin, Knuble, Backstrom, Green, etc.. all those players are consistent and will destroy us.

0% chance of winning the series, maybe 10% chance it's not a sweep.

wahh I love this team I don't want them to lose wahhh

Then enjoy another year of mediocrity when we get some draft pick who won't see NHL ice for 3 years.

Gimme Hall/Seguin NOW!

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Old
03-30-2010, 11:58 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
Guys like you, mouth and a handful of others remember the debacle of 1993.

Weight, Domi, King were all traded for old guys like Tikkanen and Olczyk.

The Rangers closed the 1992-93 season losing 9 of their last 10 home games. This was a team who won the President's trophy the year before.

And finally,

5) Sather takes a limited role. This has to be done.
This was an excellent post. The problem is that it was different ownership back then.

The trades for Olczyk and Tikkanen weren't all that bad and were actually necessary at the time. Olczyk was 26 and Tikkanen was 27 at the time of the trade, so it wasn't like the typical Marcel Dionne trade. Those trades were necessary. Remember the Rangers having a surplus of forwards. Roger Nielson was comparing a hockey line up like a starting pitcher in baseball. Randy Gihlen actually came out and said he never has seen anything like this?

You are absolutely dead on but I don't think much will change until MSG is sold. Maybe if Dolan gets his Knicks revenue back, maybe he'll leave the Rangers alone.

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Old
03-30-2010, 12:06 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Agreed and this goes hand in hand with how you approach a trade deadline. I'm glad he didnt do anything, but at the same time if they had gotten a few picks it would have really benefitted this team.

I always see it as a huge swing.

Say he goes into the draft in the 8th position, and a player falls down to a spot where he wants to move up to grab him. The Rangers havent always done this, but being so close to that player this year might change their strategy this time around. It would have been a lot easier to dump a 2nd rounder off to move up had the received one or two at the deadline. Instead hell have to give up his only second to get there, and in effect most likely wont - so the Rangers will lose out on a potential star because they finished 3 places too high and didnt sell at the deadline.

Every little decision made effects everything double. If he had gone into the draft armed with a first and 3 seconds, the Rangers could come out with 2 legit first rounders and a second. Instead it will be an average first and a second - and you still miss the playoffs.
They should have dealt Prospal. I think they can still move Girardi on draft day, and I don't believe there was a deal out there for Jokinen. But, Prospal should have been dealt.

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Old
03-30-2010, 12:07 PM
  #88
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Missing the playoffs 7 years in a row didn't help us get better. I can't root against my team, go Rangers make the playoffs.

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Old
03-30-2010, 12:11 PM
  #89
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16 teams make the playoffs. If all those teams were equal, that would give each team a 6.25% chance to win the cup. I think we can all agree that the Ranger's chances would be somewhere far south of that number.

If we finish 6th worst, we would have a 6.2% chance to win the lottery and get the 2nd overall pick.

Our chances of drafting Hall or Seguin are better than our chances of winning the cup. Probably better than our chances of beating washington, as well.

And that's not even counting the possibility that we win the majority of our remaining games but still miss the playoffs and miss out on a top 10 pick.

Edit: The current odds for the Rangers to make the playoffs is 18.9%.

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Old
03-30-2010, 12:11 PM
  #90
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.

Maybe I'm just rationalizing this my own way, but I don't think that rooting for the Rangers to miss the PO's is actually rooting against the Rangers. I think of it of rooting for the Rangers in a different way.

Lets say we make the PO's and lets even go so far as to say that we push the Caps to a 7th game and get bounced.

I don't believe that those 7 games are going to be more beneficial to the youngsters on this team that have for all intents and purposes been playing playoff hockey for the better part of a month now. We've been out of a PO spot for a while now and we have been playing every game to get back in it.

How is some 7 game series against one opponent any different than the last 15 games played and the remaining 7 to be played.

I'm a realist. I look at this team and see major deficiences in every aspect of the team.

No 1st line center
No secondary scoring
No legit #1 defenceman
No proven PPQB
A very very soft defence
A coach that's not very good at motivating anyone to do anything

Then I look at Washington (more than likely our 1st round opponent) and see that the only real deficiency they may have is in goaltending and if you are playing a team like the Rangers, even that is not a deficiency to be overly concerned with.

I'd like to see the Rangers be a PO team with a legit shot to compete in the first round. Henrik and Gaborik alone will not provide that. Thinking otherwise is a pipe-dream.

I look at this as follows:

The Rangers have made some very solid decisions over the last few years in regards to draft picks. Assuming they get into the top 8, or even the top 5 I see no reason for that not to continue. I then look at who would be available to us at 5 thru 8 and can't help but think how that one player can be more helpful than some potential 7 game stint against a team that is without question top to bottom, better than we are.

I have no doubt in my mind that this teams chances to be better increase if they miss the PO's.

This org. is full of prospects that project to be 2nd and 3rd line players. There are even a few that project to be maybe 2nd or 1st line players but what this org. doesn't have is that prospect that has 1st liner written all over him and I believe that we can get that player in this draft, just not in the 15+ range.

I'm rooting for the Rangers organization. Not just todays team. I'm rooting for a better tomorrow that I believe we will have should we be lucky enough to be in position to take the player that can help us get there.

I don't view rooting for the Rangers to miss the PO's as rooting against them, I view it as rooting for them to to address a serious organizational flaw that has afflicted them for the last however many years.

This team will never take those much needed two steps forward if they refuse, year in and year out, to take that one small step backward.

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Old
03-30-2010, 12:14 PM
  #91
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The way I see it, no one is more interested in seeing this team win than the people who want to see it lose this season. And if you aren't willing to see your team sacrifice for the greater good, then you aren't all that interested in seeing them win at all.

I've never been as disenchanted with this team as I am today. As insulting to the fanbase as the 95-04 years were, these post-lockout seasons feel like a complete slap in the face.

You know who else builds "for the playoffs?" The teams that don't go anywhere. The teams that are in danger of being ****ing relocated. That's who builds for the playoffs. Them and us, apparently. What this team hasn't done in over a decade is build for a Cup. How about building a good hockey team, a hockey team that has more than 2-3 players worth watching?

This franchise is a complete and utter joke, and the last five years have simply been an insult to me as a fan. These post-lockout seasons have been infuriating. The last time the New York Rangers were a great hockey team was 1994. The last time I can say that I watched a Rangers game and felt like I was being entertained as a result of seeing well-played team hockey was 1994.

And this isn't going to change. This team is going to suck next season, too.

Losing out on the playoffs this season may not result in the regime change we need, but at least it will give us a good shot at getting a good player that we desperately need. I believe the chances that we get a good player are much higher than the chances that we win even a round in the playoffs.

If you try and teach your kid to ride a bike, and the pedals are broken, are you going to force him to continue forward with a "never give up" mentality, or are you going to stop, take some time to fix the pedals, and then see what he can do? This team is broken. It needs to be fixed. There is no point pushing forward without the proper tools.

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Old
03-30-2010, 12:15 PM
  #92
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Sather will be gone soon enough. Patience...

Oh yeah and say no to this miserable tanking idea...

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03-30-2010, 12:17 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
When your a fan of this team for 20 years or more you've been through so much that the next season almost becomes predictable. All we want is a better structure and a plan, and if that is assisted by missing the playoffs so be it. I want to see this team succeed more than anything else, but above that i just want the product on the ice to be enjoyable to watch.
I feel your pain as a longtime fan but I don't see the connection between the team playing lousy and that somehow resulting in a better plan or structure or product on the ice. What I've seen is dissapointment historically followed by dissapointment. The only recent break being the Jagr years (and they weren't even that great. I don't see the Rangers changing the way they do business whether the Ranger make the second round of the playoffs or whether they end up 26th overall in the standings.

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Old
03-30-2010, 12:25 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
The way I see it, no one is more interested in seeing this team win than the people who want to see it lose this season. And if you aren't willing to see your team sacrifice for the greater good, then you aren't all that interested in seeing them win at all.

I've never been as disenchanted with this team as I am today. As insulting to the fanbase as the 95-04 years were, these post-lockout seasons feel like a complete slap in the face.

You know who else builds "for the playoffs?" The teams that don't go anywhere. The teams that are in danger of being ****ing relocated. That's who builds for the playoffs. Them and us, apparently. What this team hasn't done in over a decade is build for a Cup. How about building a good hockey team, a hockey team that has more than 2-3 players worth watching?

This franchise is a complete and utter joke, and the last five years have simply been an insult to me as a fan. These post-lockout seasons have been infuriating. The last time the New York Rangers were a great hockey team was 1994. The last time I can say that I watched a Rangers game and felt like I was being entertained as a result of seeing well-played team hockey was 1994.

And this isn't going to change. This team is going to suck next season, too.

Losing out on the playoffs this season may not result in the regime change we need, but at least it will give us a good shot at getting a good player that we desperately need. I believe the chances that we get a good player are much higher than the chances that we win even a round in the playoffs.

If you try and teach your kid to ride a bike, and the pedals are broken, are you going to force him to continue forward with a "never give up" mentality, or are you going to stop, take some time to fix the pedals, and then see what he can do? This team is broken. It needs to be fixed. There is no point pushing forward without the proper tools.
This isn't some type of time traveling communism in one franchise, or reaching enlightenment.

You want to have a better team, we have a lot of the pieces it just now takes some patience and a winning culture.

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03-30-2010, 12:25 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post
I feel your pain as a longtime fan but I don't see the connection between the team playing lousy and that somehow resulting in a better plan or structure or product on the ice. What I've seen is dissapointment historically followed by dissapointment. The only recent break being the Jagr years (and they weren't even that great. I don't see the Rangers changing the way they do business whether the Ranger make the second round of the playoffs or whether they end up 26th overall in the standings.
Our next 4 games are on the road, and then we have 2 at home. If we are out of the playoff race by the time we play those home games, I have to believe that the chants for Sather's head will be quite loud. Doesn't mean Dolan will do anything about it, but maybe he will. If he does, it still remains to be seen whether or not that change would be for the positive, though I don't see how it could be worse. All we can do is hope.

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03-30-2010, 12:35 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
This isn't some type of time traveling communism in one franchise, or reaching enlightenment.

You want to have a better team, we have a lot of the pieces it just now takes some patience and a winning culture.
What pieces are those exactly?

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03-30-2010, 12:36 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
This isn't some type of time traveling communism in one franchise, or reaching enlightenment.
I'm not sure what time traveling communism is, or what enlightenment has to do with my comment. All I'm saying is that if you really want to see this team win "at all costs" then you should be willing to have the patience to see them accumulate the necessary tools.

Quote:
You want to have a better team, we have a lot of the pieces it just now takes some patience and a winning culture.
Who are you to tell anyone to have patience? No one has less patience than you, since you aren't willing to wait and let this team rebuild.

A lot of pieces? What pieces? Where/who are these pieces?

We have hardly any pieces at all. Winning culture? What is a winning culture? It's just another cliche that means nothing. Teams that have winning cultures are teams that win, and teams that win do so because they have great players. That's how you develop a winning culture.

I don't remember the Capitals having much of a winning culture, but they sure have one now, no? That came when they got great players. Some winning culture the Penguins had. But now? Two straight finals appearances and a Cup, with more Cups to come. Enough of a winning culture for you?

This philosophy that it's just as realistic to become like the Red Wings and the Devils is naive and foolish. There are two paths to success in this league of 30 teams. One path has been taken by two teams, and two teams only. There's a reason for that.

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03-30-2010, 12:39 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
This isn't some type of time traveling communism in one franchise, or reaching enlightenment.

You want to have a better team, we have a lot of the pieces it just now takes some patience and a winning culture.
Lol, you and your "winning culture". There's no such thing. Did making the playoffs the last 4 years help us this year? I think not. So what's to say that making the playoffs this year would have any effect whatsoever on future years?

Did Phoenix have a winning culture before this year? Did Chicago before last year? No, yet they are still managing to ice teams better than anything we've had the last 13 years.

We made the playoffs the last 4 years and yet we are in danger of missing this year. Phoenix hasn't made the playoffs since 2002. Chicago didn't make the playoffs between 2003 and 2008. So please explain to me again the importance of a "winning culture".

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03-30-2010, 12:43 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I'm not sure what time traveling communism is, or what enlightenment has to do with my comment. All I'm saying is that if you really want to see this team win "at all costs" then you should be willing to have the patience to see them accumulate the necessary tools.



Who are you to tell anyone to have patience? No one has less patience than you, since you aren't willing to wait and let this team rebuild.

A lot of pieces? What pieces? Where/who are these pieces?

We have hardly any pieces at all. Winning culture? What is a winning culture? It's just another cliche that means nothing. Teams that have winning cultures are teams that win, and teams that win do so because they have great players. That's how you develop a winning culture.

I don't remember the Capitals having much of a winning culture, but they sure have one now, no? That came when they got great players. Some winning culture the Penguins had. But now? Two straight finals appearances and a Cup, with more Cups to come. Enough of a winning culture for you?

This philosophy that it's just as realistic to become like the Red Wings and the Devils is naive and foolish. There are two paths to success in this league of 30 teams. One path has been taken by two teams, and two teams only. There's a reason for that.
Well just quick on the first part, you said sacrifice for the greater good which sounds like communism (not that there's anything wrong with that). The point was you don't have to sacrifice like you seem to think.

I'm willing to wait a few years to be an elite team, I think we can achieve moderate success in that time and possibly even get lucky and get hot at the right time and win even if we aren't an elite team.

Plenty of teams have been bad for a long time.

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03-30-2010, 12:58 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
hahahh, i knew id see these threads popping up all over now... little late if you ask me but hey welcome aboard.

There have been several of us saying this for over a month. I guess now people are starting to realize.

This has obviously been a transition year. When you refuse to sign a veteran defenseman and instead go out an sign an unproven college player to a two year contract and play him, and then insert a -23 19 year old rookie (who I deserved to be here but you cant have two on the job) - with obvious gaping holes and underachieving veterans spread all over the roster - i don't know what else you expect.

The Rangers problem is they treat every year like they are going to win the cup and its extremely foolish. Had management took a step back going into the final 2 months of the season and really formed a realistic view of this season, they may have gotten some value for some of the veterans that most likely wont be back next season, and that would have benefited the future greatly.

The leadership of this franchise is ****. From the top on down. It needs to be changed and thats a no brainer to me. I think the most upsetting thing to me is that Sather and upper management have this complacent sense of entitlement with this team. They can do no wrong, the fans will always show up and he can change 200 players over the course of a 5 season period and never face the music to explain any of it unless its a PR stunt to sell even more tickets. He doesnt give interviews. The fans are fed this accountability ******** every year but the one who should be held most accountable hides from all the blame, but willingly dishes it out himself whenever he sees fit.

Things not working? Fire the coach. Offense not generating enough goals? Turn the roster over again. On the bubble again? Make another trade to patch a hole. Not enough money to sign a UFA? Trade off a piece that will leave a different hole. Rinse and repeat. How about firing yourself Glen? That should be your final move. Sooner or later you have to look in the mirror if things arent working.


Top 10 Sather Quotes

10. On signing Malakhov: "If you look through the NHL, there aren't many players with his type of ability; he has superstar ability."

9. On booing fans: "Well, that's the way it works in sports. You cheer and help the team get better. You boo them, they get worse. It's the same as your children. If you have a child who is having trouble in school and you berate him every day he's never going to get any better.”

8. On the Lindros trade: "No. I don't think it's very risky."

7. On taking over the Rangers: "I'm going to send out a bit of a wakeup call to the entire team. If you're not going to work and sacrifice yourself, then there's no room for you."

6. On trading for Poti: "I think he'll be one of the top players in the league.”

5. On the Lindros trade part II: "You can be a lion maybe once in your life. If you don't make this deal, you're a mouse forever….Wouldn't you rather be a lion for one day than a mouse for life?"

4. On the Kovalev 'trade': "I don't think it's a salary dump at all. I think it's a trade. This is a trade I don't think many teams would turn down."

3. More on taking over the Rangers: "I'm not singling anybody out, but if these veterans don't come in ready, we'll be the first team to have $6 million players in the minors, and I'm not kidding. I don't want anyone to waste my time."

2. On organizational direction: "At some point in time, this organization has got to get younger and get some enthusiasm."

and, the number one quote from Glen Sather...

1. On building a winner: "One thing, though, and I hate to say it, but a high budget doesn't bring a championship. Hard work, players living for each other and working with each other striving for the same goal wins championships. I don't believe you can buy a winner, though that's not to say that you don't sign a free agent if there's one available who can help the team. I think a team has to be built. You build through the draft and through trades."


Found these gems here: http://hfboards.ca/showthread.php?p=617966
"If i had the Rangers payroll my team would never lose" - boy did you eat those words.

Can we just sticky this post as a "New York Rangers Organization in a Nutshell" topic so we can cut down on 60% of the debates on this board?

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