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Doug Wickenheiser: Bust or bad luck?

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Old
08-30-2010, 08:10 AM
  #26
crazyd
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It was bad luck that he was a bust.

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08-30-2010, 09:20 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by SeriousFan09 View Post
Well aware, but a couple teams were ready to sell their souls for Alex Daigle once upon a time. The guy who looks best in juniors doesn't necessarily make him the best player for the NHL.
He had over 20 more goals than Savard did during their last year of Jr. If there was a player in the WHL who put up those type of goal numbers today, they would be number one also. If the Habs passed on Wickenheiser and he put up the type of numbers he had the potential to do with another team, we'd have a thread about passing on Wickenheiser. At the time it was a no brainer and if a player put up similar numbers again, it would be a no brainer today.

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08-30-2010, 09:23 AM
  #28
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Scouting wasn't the same in those days either.

Even a pick like Alexandre Daigle was half bust, half bad scouting.

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08-30-2010, 09:26 AM
  #29
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Knee injuries really took it out of him. Bad luck.

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08-30-2010, 10:12 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by loadie View Post
He had over 20 more goals than Savard did during their last year of Jr. If there was a player in the WHL who put up those type of goal numbers today, they would be number one also. If the Habs passed on Wickenheiser and he put up the type of numbers he had the potential to do with another team, we'd have a thread about passing on Wickenheiser. At the time it was a no brainer and if a player put up similar numbers again, it would be a no brainer today.
Savard had excellent numbers for his final two junior seasons, his numbers were more consistent while Wickenheiser's in his final year looked like wild overachievement compared to his previous two.

There would be a thread about passing on Wickenheiser if he had hit his achievements but he didn't and 1980 was when the decline of MTL's 1st round choices began.

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08-30-2010, 11:00 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by SeriousFan09 View Post
Savard had excellent numbers for his final two junior seasons, his numbers were more consistent while Wickenheiser's in his final year looked like wild overachievement compared to his previous two.

There would be a thread about passing on Wickenheiser if he had hit his achievements but he didn't and 1980 was when the decline of MTL's 1st round choices began.
True, Savard was very consistent, while Wickenheiser really spiked in is last year. It isn't uncommon for a Junior player to put up better numbers his last season, even though his jump was phenomenal. He was bigger than Savard and he put up 40 pts in 18 playoff games, I'm sure that played a part in the selection also.

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08-30-2010, 01:50 PM
  #32
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The pressure on this poor guy was relentless at the time. It was just never going to work in Montreal after Savard became totally connected to his presence in Montreal

Then he went to StL and was actually doing pretty good and got hit by a car in the playoffs I believe

Tough story all around.

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Old
08-31-2010, 08:24 PM
  #33
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If the 1980 draft had taken place this year and the Canadiens selected Savard, people would be complaining that we just got another midget simply because he was French.

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09-01-2010, 05:26 AM
  #34
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It's not true to say that Wick was a consensus number one pick. In fact, there were three,not two candidates for number one that year: Wickenheiser, Savard, and the now forgotten Dave Babych, who played out west as well. How clearly I remember Prof Caron in a between periods interview with Dick Irvin on a late night radio broadcast from LA savoring the rich choice among the three -- he compared Savard to Henri Richard, Babych to Denis Potvin , and Wickenheiser , it's true, to Jean Beliveau. But then he added , and I will never forget these words: " We would like to see more intensity." At that moment, I knew that they would take him, and that we were doomed; a number one pick lacking intensity playing in Montreal? And it was true: he was a talented player in a high pressure situation, but he lacked fire and he lacked speed. Savard, meanwhile, was clearly a magician, of all of those who watched him with the trois Denis line could see. It was obvious that his speed could get him past any difficulties, as indeed it did, though it's true that he also had a (relatively) short career. It was a classic case of over-rating size and junior scoring, underrating speed and skill, a mistake the Habs have made repeatedly in the thirty years since. Wickenheiser wasn't a consensus pick at all; he was a consensus pick of those who thought that inches matter more than intensity, and weight more than wizardry.

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09-01-2010, 11:03 AM
  #35
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He's a bust.....but

Everyone says take the best player available, back in 1980 most people saw Wickenheiser as the best available no matter how you slice it. He was big, defensively sound, and could put up points, which seemed to fit the mold of the team in 1980.

You could make arguments for any #1 overall busts on who would have been better, but look at their stats and how they played in junior. If Daigle was in this years draft I'd be impressed with his Q numbers and might even consider him to project to be better than Hall or Seguin.


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Old
09-01-2010, 04:36 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherbrookeW View Post
It's not true to say that Wick was a consensus number one pick. In fact, there were three,not two candidates for number one that year: Wickenheiser, Savard, and the now forgotten Dave Babych, who played out west as well.
Well, any way you look at it Wickenheiser was the clear choice for number 1 overall at the time, even if there was a storyline throughout the season.

Reading the 1980 THN Draft Preview, it was stated that pretty much every (if not all) GM in the league would select Wickenheiser 1st overall.

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Old
09-02-2010, 03:43 AM
  #37
SherbrookeW
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No, as I tried to explain, there was an ongoing, engaged and standing dialogue about which of the three --Dave Babych was right in there -- was the right choice. That's why Caron openly debated the question on radio. Lots of people liked Wickenheiser; but the idea that Savard was the right choice was hardly a Quebec oddity. Go back and read both the French and English papers of the time. I guarantee you that they will show that the argument went on right to draft day. You could compare it, if you like, to the famous NBA draft where Hakeem, Sam Bowie, and you-know-who were all available; there was a feeling there,too, that the big guy was the right choice, but plenty of controversy, many opinions -- and once again, Chicago , picking third ,picked right. (And once again, the biggest-good-guy-available theory of the draft died horribly.)

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Old
09-02-2010, 01:00 PM
  #38
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Coffey was the best player to come out of the draft. Wick was an absolute gem as a Junior. He always wanted the puck. He appeared to lack the confidence in the pros. He reminds me a little of Maxwell
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Sounds like Bryan Fogarty



Actually, should have picked Paul Coffey.

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Old
09-02-2010, 01:43 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by yathehabsrule View Post
Grundman went with him under the referral of scouting director Ron Caron. When Wicks was traded to St. Louis, the Blues GM was...Ron Caron. He obviously still had belief in him.

Yeah and the Habs gave the GM job to Grundman over Scotty Bowman, who never amounted to much after leaving Mtl in disgust (rolling eyes)
Bowman's gm career never amounted to much either. His stint in Buffalo was so bad his coaching career had to be put back on hold.

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