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Should Lowe Be Given A Free Pass?

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Old
03-30-2010, 10:32 AM
  #1
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Should Lowe Be Given A Free Pass?

I must admit - I'm starting to warm to Tambellini. To be honest, I have never seen him as much more than Lowe's puppet until the recent trade deadline. Moving Staois signaled to me that what needed to be done is starting. And I can understand the other deals within the context of cap management. So, Tambellini has started doing things. It has been a painful 18 months of "evaluating", but it finally looks like Tambellini is making smart moves.

Then reading SlowFreshOil and ha101's post in the Oilers breakfast thread has given me even more confidence going forward.

But something bothers me, and according to SlowFreshOil Tambelllini put it this way:
The only way to do it is through draft and development along with smart trades and free agency acquisitions when necessary. He says there's no quick fix to what's happened here
link

What has happened here? Lowe built a team to the cap - a last place team by the way - and handed it over to Tambellini who had little choice but to "evaluate."

Lowe overpaid nearly everybody, except the one guy he should have (Smyth). And we are going to need to overpay some people to come here, but Lowe clearly had his guys (and I think his and MacT's guys were very much the same) and those guys got paid.

Lowe always went big game hunting with blanks in his gun. Even after Pronger, Lowe still operated the team as if Edmonton would have little trouble landing a big talent. Every year going out big game hunting and not getting any big game. What he did get was contracts that players had little chance to live up to.

These are fundamental flaws that cannot be overlooked.

I could go on and on indicting Lowe for paragraphs, but suffice it to say what happened here was Lowe's fault.

If Tambellini knows something has happened here, that isn't a quick fix, shouldn't somebody shoulder the accountability for what has happened?

How can we expect accountability out of our players and coaches if management gets a free ride?

I'm willing to let Tambellini have his shot (which is a recent change of opinion), but I think it should involve letting the players know that management screwed up so they don't put all that weight on their shoulders.

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03-30-2010, 10:41 AM
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The thing is you can't really disconnect Lowe and Tambi, Lowe still says yes or no to every thing. Tambi does the ground work but lowe still makes the final call. So if you look at the team you can't really say well one or the other did it, for better or for worse it is both or their teams.


EVery one is chocked now, but with some help from the hockey gods and Hall/Seguin. people will put these dark days behind us and look at Tambo and Lowe as two very smart hockey minds that had some bad luck and injury riddled years.

AT the end of 06 Lowe was look at as perhaps the best GM in hockey. Crazy to think about now, but it was true.

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03-30-2010, 10:41 AM
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Kevin Lowe should still be fired.

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03-30-2010, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorHallFan View Post

Lowe always went big game hunting with blanks in his gun. Even after Pronger, Lowe still operated the team as if Edmonton would have little trouble landing a big talent. Every year going out big game hunting and not getting any big game. What he did get was contracts that players had little chance to live up to.
Isn't this what Tambellini did this summer with Heatley? The only difference is that when Lowe went big game hunting, he didn't do after players who had not intentions of signing with the Oilers. From what I understood, Hossa to Edmonton was a possibility until the end - Hossa said so himself. In the end, he chose a chance to win a cup, and rightfully so.

Lowe had his flaws and made his share of mistakes. But all things equal, I'd rather have him as GM, until Tambellini shows he can actually be an NHL GM in this league.

Remember, he was passed over a number of times in Vancouver to become the GM of the team.

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03-30-2010, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
The thing is you can't really disconnect Lowe and Tambi, Lowe still says yes or no to every thing. Tambi does the ground work but lowe still makes the final call. So if you look at the team you can't really say well one or the other did it, for better or for worse it is both or their teams.


EVery one is chocked now, but with some help from the hockey gods and Hall/Seguin. people will put these dark days behind us and look at Tambo and Lowe as two very smart hockey minds that had some bad luck and injury riddled years. AT the end of 06 Lowe was look at as perhaps the best GM in hockey. Crazy to think about now, but it was true.





I will never look back and say that Kevin Lowe was a very smart hockey mind.The guy doesn't deserve to ever be given a compliment that he is very smart.A smart hockey mind doesn't go and give such ridiculous contracts to mediocre players.A real good smart hockey mind is Ken Holland or Lou Lamoriello,NOT Kevin lowe.

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03-30-2010, 10:55 AM
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Free pass? No

Should he be blamed for what has happened in the last 18 months? No

In my opinion Tambellini has more to do with the 30th place ranking than Lowe does.

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03-30-2010, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
I will never look back and say that Kevin Lowe was a very smart hockey mind.The guy doesn't deserve to ever be given a compliment that he is very smart.A smart hockey mind doesn't go and give such ridiculous contracts to mediocre players.A real good smart hockey mind is Ken Holland or Lou Lamoriello,NOT Kevin lowe.
Really? "Smart GMs don't give out bad contracts?" I'm not sure if you're being serious because it happens all the time.

For example, Lamoriello has a 35+ Brian Rolston for two more years he would kill to get rid of.
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03-30-2010, 11:04 AM
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Really? "Smart GMs don't give out bad contracts?" I'm not sure if you're being serious because it happens all the time.

For example, Lamoriello has a 35+ Brian Rolston for two more years he would kill to get rid of.
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New Jersey has 1 bad contract (Rolston).We have 7-8 bad contracts (Horcoff,O'Sullivan,Pisani,Nilsson,Moreau,Souray,G ilbert,Khabibulin.


Aswell 2 years isn't terrible,how many years do we have Horcoff for still 5 years.We're going to be paying him 5.5 at 36-37 YEARS OLD.

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03-30-2010, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Free pass? No

Should he be blamed for what has happened in the last 18 months? No

In my opinion Tambellini has more to do with the 30th place ranking than Lowe does.
WOW. Care to justify those last two opinions?

I think you're dead wrong. The team we saw play over the last 18 months was constructed by Lowe. Lowe was the one that saddled the team with brutal contracts. If you're saying that Tambo is to blame for us being dead last because he has failed to make moves to improve the team, you need to ask yourself why the team needed to be improved in the first place and why has it been so hard for Tambo to make big moves. The answer to those questions is Lowe and the big, bad contract he has given out.

Lowe might be a good evaluator of talent, but I think he has proven that he lacks other essential skills of a good GM: financial management and planning. Once EIG opened their wallets a bit and then Katz stepped in with big money, Lowe blew the wad without much of a plan for the structure of the team or an understanding of how the costs of the contracts would impact the team.

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03-30-2010, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Free pass? No

Should he be blamed for what has happened in the last 18 months? Yes

In my opinion Lowe has more to do with the 30th place ranking than Tambo does.


That's more ****ing like it.

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03-30-2010, 11:10 AM
  #11
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I'll give him a free pass. As long as he doesn't become the GM again, I'm happy.

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03-30-2010, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
Really? "Smart GMs don't give out bad contracts?" I'm not sure if you're being serious because it happens all the time.

For example, Lamoriello has a 35+ Brian Rolston for two more years he would kill to get rid of.
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Ya, even the Wings have Brad Stuart. I mean still not a horrid contract, but a bad one for sure. They would dump him if they had the chance.

I mentioned this in a draft thread, according to most peoples standards every team in the NHL drafts bad. People critisize the Oilers without out having a reasonable idea of what the average GM in hockey has done. By the standards people place on Lowe and Tambo, EVERY GM is a bad one.

Clearly there has been flaws to what Lowe and Tambo have done the past 4 years, you don't end up in last place if you have done a great job. Just oing on about bad contracts gets old though, there is never mention of injuries, Pronger jumping ship, this has been a hard ship to right since 06. When you lose your superstar and can't stay healthy you have a up hill battle right there.

Personally they have made some mistakes and I feel they have learned from them, the one bright spot that no one seems to mention is that in the last 4 years, including a hall/seguin, the oilers have probably ammasses the best collection of young players drafted in those 4 years.

ps. I guess Tampa with Stamkos and Headman would be number 1 for talent drafted in the last 4 years, but Edmonton would probably come in #2 after this draft. THat is something to hang your hat on considering we only had one top 5 pick.


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03-30-2010, 11:18 AM
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... you need to ask yourself why the team needed to be improved in the first place and why has it been so hard for Tambo to make big moves.
I have asked myself that question and the answer I came up with is that Tambellini isn't a very good GM.

I am on record in a lot of threads, this one included, that states Lowe doesn't get a free pass. He made a number of mistakes that have CONTRIBUTED to the state of the team.

However, I am also saying that Tambellini has done SFA to improve the situation and that lands on his shoulders, not Lowes. Couple that with Edmonton's drop in the standings the two years he has been at the helm and I am not sure why so many people A) remain optimistic about Tambellini and B) take it a step further and refuse to attach any of the stink to him by deflecting everything to Lowe.

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03-30-2010, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
I have asked myself that question and the answer I came up with is that Tambellini isn't a very good GM.

I am on record in a lot of threads, this one included, that states Lowe doesn't get a free pass. He made a number of mistakes that have CONTRIBUTED to the state of the team.

However, I am also saying that Tambellini has done SFA to improve the situation and that lands on his shoulders, not Lowes. Couple that with Edmonton's drop in the standings the two years he has been at the helm and I am not sure why so many people A) remain optimistic about Tambellini and B) take it a step further and refuse to attach any of the stink to him by deflecting everything to Lowe.

What if he was trying and no one would make moves with him because of the players that are overpaid.He might aswell be convinced that even if he was able to fix problems that this team is not good enough and that we would still miss the playoffs.Even if he did fix the Faceoff's and penalty kill issue,this team still badly lacks the serious talent up front.

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03-30-2010, 11:28 AM
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I have asked myself that question and the answer I came up with is that Tambellini isn't a very good GM.

I am on record in a lot of threads, this one included, that states Lowe doesn't get a free pass. He made a number of mistakes that have CONTRIBUTED to the state of the team.

However, I am also saying that Tambellini has done SFA to improve the situation and that lands on his shoulders, not Lowes. Couple that with Edmonton's drop in the standings the two years he has been at the helm and I am not sure why so many people A) remain optimistic about Tambellini and B) take it a step further and refuse to attach any of the stink to him by deflecting everything to Lowe.
Im certainly not advocating a free pass for Tambo. I agree, he could have done more to help the team. But Lowe is ultimately the reason why we where we are. Lowe still has his hand in everything the team does. Really, up until this past trade deadline, the team was continuing down the "win now" path the Lowe had been paving with astonishing failure since the Cup run. I dont think its a strectch to say that Tambo was forced to continue down that path whether he believed it was right or not. Now it appears as though the need to rebuild what Lowe has built has been accepted. Tambo's term as GM should be judged by what he does between this past trade deadline and the beginning of the 2011-12 season.

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03-30-2010, 11:32 AM
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and what makes you think Lowe wasnt involved in the Staios trade?

Tambo isnt getting a free pass from me.. After injuries he is the biggest reason why we are this bad. I thank him for helping us land a top 2 pick this year but he better start plugging the holes now .. Gagner, Brule and Potulny shouldve been signed\extended by now.

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03-30-2010, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
The thing is you can't really disconnect Lowe and Tambi, Lowe still says yes or no to every thing. Tambi does the ground work but lowe still makes the final call. So if you look at the team you can't really say well one or the other did it, for better or for worse it is both or their teams.


EVery one is chocked now, but with some help from the hockey gods and Hall/Seguin. people will put these dark days behind us and look at Tambo and Lowe as two very smart hockey minds that had some bad luck and injury riddled years.

AT the end of 06 Lowe was look at as perhaps the best GM in hockey. Crazy to think about now, but it was true.
Are you serious? Lowe as a 'very smart hockey mind"?

Very smart hockey minds dont make the mistakes he has made. I can understand a 'smart hockey mind' making one or two serious mistakes over a career, but not the endless list that this clown has made. Sorry you are wrong, just admit it and move on.

1) Utter mismanagement of the Farm System,
2) Utter mismanagement of the Franchises goalies for the past several years,
3) Comrie for Perry, MacDonald and a 1st -> and his emotions / need for revenge make this one of the worst non-trades in Oiler history,
4) Revenge against Comrie means for years players will avoid the Oilers as it is clear how Oiler management will treat them,
5) Terrible drafting for most of Lowe's Tenure as GM. Really Pouliot over Parise, Getzlaf, Burns, Kessler, Richards, Boyle, Perry etc etc.
6) Terrible player development,
7) Terrible player management,
8) Acting out of desperation to obtain free-agents. If we signed Thomas Vanek, KLowe would have guaranteed this franchise's devestation for 10++ years. Really 4 first round picks, and we would of had no future. It was only LUCK that Buffalo signed him.
9) Overpayment of contract upon contract. Just stupid money mismanagement. Horcoff, Moreau, Pisani, Staois, Greb's etc. etc.
10) Michael Nylander, hahahahahahahahahahah
11) Trading Pronger for nothing!

And those are just some of the brilliant moves of KLowe the "very smart hockey mind". Are you really serious that you actually believe that .... any other organization in this league would of seen him fired a long time ago!

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03-30-2010, 11:36 AM
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Doesn't anyone see the real picture here? Especially given the fact that Tambellini too went big game hunting this past summer. Clearly, it's been marching orders from ownership to do that.

And Horcoff's ridiculous contract? I wonder if it's related to the fact that Katz and Horcoff are golfing buddies.

What's changed here is management has gotten the stones to sit the owner down and say, "look, your suggestions haven't worked. Look where it's gotten us. Let us do our jobs now."

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03-30-2010, 11:38 AM
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11) Trading Pronger for nothing!
Nothing? I'd do that trade again.

Lupul, Smid, two first rounders (one of which turned out to be Eberle) and a second rounder.

Also - drafting has been very good since about 2006 when the team got some new scouts in. A lot of other accusations you can chalk up to bad ownership. Or meddling ownership rather.

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03-30-2010, 11:40 AM
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Kevin Lowe should still be fired.
+1,

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03-30-2010, 11:42 AM
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and what makes you think Lowe wasnt involved in the Staios trade?

Tambo isnt getting a free pass from me.. After injuries he is the biggest reason why we are this bad. I thank him for helping us land a top 2 pick this year but he better start plugging the holes now .. Gagner, Brule and Potulny shouldve been signed\extended by now.
You can't make chicken soup out of chicken ****. And that is what Tambo has had to work with. At best, Tambo could have dumped salaries like Staios earlier than he did, but he certainly wouldnt have been able to turn the bad contracts we have into productive assets that would have improved this team much beyond what it is now.

Like I said before, up until this past trade deadline, management's approach seemed to be win now. It looks like a rebuild is starting in earnest. Tambo should be judged on what he can get done in the next 16 months or so

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03-30-2010, 11:43 AM
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Lowe should be run out of town on a rail for what he's done to this franchise.

A complete disgrace of a General Manager.

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03-30-2010, 11:49 AM
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Lowe should be run out of town on a rail for what he's done to this franchise.

A complete disgrace of a General Manager.
Certainly more blunt than I put it, but yeah.

My fear is that Tambo, or any other future GM, will never have the full autonomy required to build this franchise properly if Lowe is still helping steer the ship.

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03-30-2010, 11:52 AM
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I'm sure Lowe was presented with this situation:

Horcoff: If I don't get good money I'm hitting the FA market. (I'm sure he would have had a similar contract from another team if he was a UFA)

Pisani, Moreau, Staios, etc etc: "If we don't get good money we're hitting FA. Look at what we did for the team in 06."

There were some really bad contracts, but if he let those guys walk there would have been NO ONE left to play for the team. Should we have just called up the whole Springfield team (which is pretty much what ended up happening)? He was in a no-******* win situation. After the cup run I've never seen so many people head for the hills and not even give management a chance to re-sign them. There was clearly a problem.

No he shouldn't be given a free pass because the team is a mess because of him, but this club has been a dreadful, and thankfully they've even found players to play here let alone us dreaming of being in the damned playoffs.

Until this team starts to win again, and the culture is changed the above is what we will deal with.

Does anyone seriously believe that we would attract a good team/players without having to massively overpay after nearly 10 years of being near the basement with barely any money; and then after the cup run having a superstar like Pronger blast the city and the team?

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03-30-2010, 11:53 AM
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Nothing? I'd do that trade again.

Lupul, Smid, two first rounders (one of which turned out to be Eberle) and a second rounder.

Also - drafting has been very good since about 2006 when the team got some new scouts in. A lot of other accusations you can chalk up to bad ownership. Or meddling ownership rather.
2006 - The only player to play in the NHL from this draft is Peckham. A marginal #6 - 7 defender. Petry continues to look like a quality prospect and has yet to play one NHL game. Until he plays in the show, he is still a prospect.

2007 - Gagner was the obvious choice at 6th. Even a monkey would of picked him here. Plante and Nash were utter failures as first round picks, indicative of terrible hockey managment.

2008 - Eberle looks to be a heck of a pick at 22nd, but has yet to play a game in the NHL. Even a blind squirrel will find a nut now and then.

2009 - Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson unexpectedly falls to 10th. This is an incredibly deep draft in which reminds me of the 2003 draft. No suprise here and no indication of better drafting, just because we don't make a stupid mistake like Pouliot.

A vast improvement in drafting would suggest some quality picks from rounds 3/4 and on that will contribute to this team. Where are they? Gagner and MPS are a product of serendipity.

As for the trade it is looking like Smid and Eberle for Pronger. We should of got a franchise player back. Again KLowe acting with emotion rather than logic.

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