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Should Lowe Be Given A Free Pass?

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Old
03-30-2010, 06:11 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by badberry View Post
Again, Khabibulin. One of the most brutal contracts we have. Completely unmovable.
So what? He was brought in for specific reasons. What if he turns his game around helps mentor our young goalies? Are you going to call the contract a bust then?

We're a year into the contract and he's barely played because of a freak back issue that flared up. That can happen to any goalie (or player for that matter). How about we see what gets accomplished next season before passing judgment.

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03-30-2010, 06:12 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by badberry View Post
Ah, the old "who would be better, you?" argument. There are plenty of qualified people out there, saying there is no one is a cop out.
Who are they then? Don't shoot back with the "there's better people out there" argument. Back it the **** up with some names man!

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03-30-2010, 06:13 PM
  #103
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I don't think any Khabibulin injury can be considered a "freak" one.

I'll say there's approximately 0 chance he gives us good value on that contract (4 years!!)

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03-30-2010, 06:17 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by badberry View Post
I don't think any Khabibulin injury can be considered a "freak" one.

I'll say there's approximately 0 chance he gives us good value on that contract (4 years!!)
Dude, do you know how many players play with injuries that can just flare up at any point? It happens all the time.

If you want to make a wager on your last statement, I'd gladly take it.

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03-30-2010, 06:20 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by SlowFreshOil View Post
Once again, where's this market for these players? Answer the question. There isn't one so he's been STUCK with them.
Just a few examples of guys with bad contracts that were moved last summer;

Jim Vandermeer
Scott Gomez
Ryan Smyth
Wayne Primeau
Brad Lukowich

And that totally ignores all the bad free agency signings that also indicate market value in terms of contract worth.

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03-30-2010, 06:21 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by SlowFreshOil View Post
Who are they then? Don't shoot back with the "there's better people out there" argument. Back it the **** up with some names man!
How should I know? I'm not in the business. Doesn't make "there's no one to replace them with" any less silly.

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03-30-2010, 06:23 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by SlowFreshOil View Post
Dude, do you know how many players play with injuries that can just flare up at any point? It happens all the time.
Good lord talk about lapping up the kool aid, isn't that pretty much what Tambellini told you last week?

By any chance did he say how many players get signed to 4 year deals after the age of 35?

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Old
03-30-2010, 06:27 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Good lord talk about lapping up the kool aid, isn't that pretty much what Tambellini told you last week?

By any chance did he say how many players get signed to 4 year deals after the age of 35?
Yep. And he's right. But what would I know... I only played four years in the WHL and saw it myself...

He explained the reasoning for the signing... what more do you want? He answered the question and didn't hide from it.

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03-30-2010, 06:29 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Just a few examples of guys with bad contracts that were moved last summer;

Jim Vandermeer
Scott Gomez
Ryan Smyth
Wayne Primeau
Brad Lukowich

And that totally ignores all the bad free agency signings that also indicate market value in terms of contract worth.
Once again, those players had a market and value. Where's the market for Moreau, Pisani, Horcoff, etc. There obviously wasn't or isn't one is there?

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03-30-2010, 06:32 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by SlowFreshOil View Post
Yep. And he's right. But what would I know... I only played four years in the WHL and saw it myself...
Your point is?

Again, there are people of all walks of life and experience on these boards, offering up your resume adds nothing.

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Originally Posted by SlowFreshOil View Post
He explained the reasoning for the signing... what more do you want?
Perhaps a little independant thought on what is being offered instead of blind acceptance.

It was a bad contract and there isn't a talking point out there that can justify it. Even if Tamebllini 100% believes that he will be a good mentor and was 100% committed to accepting that he may face injuries it is all completely irrelevant when weighed against how crippling a 4 year contract to an over 35 y/o player can be.

It's a PR version of a shell game, dazzle with something that sounds logical in order to distract from what can't be explained or justified.

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03-30-2010, 06:40 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by SlowFreshOil View Post
There obviously wasn't or isn't one is there?
Obvious to who, bad contracts were moved, bad contracts were signed...there is no direct link between Tambellini not being able or willing to move some of those guys and there being zero market for them.

I see one unmoveable contract and that's Horcoff, outside of that I only see a GM that can't do the job he was hired to do, or is bad at it...take your pick.

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Old
03-30-2010, 06:46 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Obvious to who, bad contracts were moved, bad contracts were signed...there is no direct link between Tambellini not being able or willing to move some of those guys and there being zero market for them.

I see one unmoveable contract and that's Horcoff, outside of that I only see a GM that can't do the job he was hired to do, or is bad at it...take your pick.
So where were all the teams calling for Moreau's services? Or Pisani's for that matter?

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03-30-2010, 06:49 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Your point is?

Again, there are people of all walks of life and experience on these boards, offering up your resume adds nothing.
You're the one who attacked me by saying I was "lapping up the KookAid" after I said injuries can flare up at any point. I was just qualifying my statement because I've seen it happen on many occasions.

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03-30-2010, 06:53 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by SlowFreshOil View Post
So where were all the teams calling for Moreau's services? Or Pisani's for that matter?
I'm not sure why you would figure I have that answer for you.

My reasoning, as I explained, is by observing what else has been done by other teams and GM's, unlike your apparent ESP.

But just for discussions sake Toronto and Anaheim were pretty strong rumours heading into the deadline when it comes to Moreau. Both teams were floated out by Gregor and Brownlee through sources they said are solid.

Pisani's contract was irrelevant this year so I'm not sure why it matters.

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03-30-2010, 06:56 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
I'm not sure why you would figure I have that answer for you.

My reasoning, as I explained, is by observing what else has been done by other teams and GM's, unlike your apparent ESP.

But just for discussions sake Toronto and Anaheim were pretty strong rumours heading into the deadline when it comes to Moreau. Both teams were floated out by Gregor and Brownlee through sources they said are solid.

Pisani's contract was irrelevant this year so I'm not sure why it matters.
You *****ed that he couldn't move these players and "stuck" with them. My answer was he was in fact stuck with these players as they weren't movable. If they were, they'd be gone.

I seem to remember Gregor saying the Heatly deal was 100% done too... Brownlee's 'sources' are starting to sound pretty suspect considering there was ZERO interest in Moreau.

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Old
03-30-2010, 06:59 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by SlowFreshOil View Post
My answer was he was in fact stuck with these players as they weren't movable. If they were, they'd be gone.
I have no idea what your first sentence means...

OR...he is a bad (or let's say alteast below average) GM.

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03-30-2010, 07:03 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
I have no idea what your first sentence means...
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Really? So here's a question, if it was evident even when Lowe was GMing, why did Tambellini stick with them for ANOTHER two years afterwards?
Your words, not mine.

You *****ed because he didn't move these players and stuck with them. My point is he couldn't move those player because there was NO market for them.

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03-30-2010, 07:04 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
I'm not sure why you would figure I have that answer for you.

My reasoning, as I explained, is by observing what else has been done by other teams and GM's, unlike your apparent ESP.

But just for discussions sake Toronto and Anaheim were pretty strong rumours heading into the deadline when it comes to Moreau. Both teams were floated out by Gregor and Brownlee through sources they said are solid.

Pisani's contract was irrelevant this year so I'm not sure why it matters.
Where salary was moved if was often for another bad contract or at a deep discount.

Burke wanted to be paid to take Moreau and believe the cost would have been a 2nd rounder. That makes no sense since we don't plan on competing anyway. We are better to bury Moreau than give away that high a pick. I don't believe for a second that a GM with nearly $30m committed to defence next year was contemplating taking Moreau for $2m quite honestly. Burke had to hose us to take on salary.

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03-30-2010, 07:47 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by SlowFreshOil View Post
So what? He was brought in for specific reasons. What if he turns his game around helps mentor our young goalies? Are you going to call the contract a bust then?
What if he plays a grand total of 15 more games over the next three years and is a cancer in the room? What if scenarios are pointless.

Quote:
We're a year into the contract and he's barely played because of a freak back issue that flared up. That can happen to any goalie (or player for that matter). How about we see what gets accomplished next season before passing judgment
Even if Kahbibulin ended up playing every single game for the run of his deal, it doesn't change the fact that the Oilers took a tremendous and unnecessary risk in signing a 35 year old player with a history of injury problems to a long-term contract.

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03-30-2010, 08:07 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by SlowFreshOil View Post
Every goalie has an injury history. And "inconsistent"? Sorry, but Khabby's been a pretty consistent goalie throughout his career (with the exception of 05/06).
Same line as Tambo fed you....bull. Khabibulin has had a major injury history as in missing games most years. Roloson though older was cheaper, signed for a lot less and was the only thing that prevented the oilers from being a lottery team the year before. Giving and older tender, with a history of inconsistency and injuries (especially a bad back) to a long term deal was dumb.

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03-30-2010, 08:09 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by SlowFreshOil View Post
So what? He was brought in for specific reasons. What if he turns his game around helps mentor our young goalies? Are you going to call the contract a bust then?

We're a year into the contract and he's barely played because of a freak back issue that flared up. That can happen to any goalie (or player for that matter). How about we see what gets accomplished next season before passing judgment.
Mentor out young goalies...once again a cover your ass excuse. We have goalie coaches and the minor leagues to teach goalies to play this mentoring is a silly reason to sign a guy, especially when our two young tenders don't look like anything special at this point.

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03-30-2010, 08:12 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by SlowFreshOil View Post
Your words, not mine.

You *****ed because he didn't move these players and stuck with them. My point is he couldn't move those player because there was NO market for them.
Steve Staios according to Lowe was the most asked about player at LAST years trade deadline. We didn't move him. even if Moreau had no big value it was obvious he was a crappy captain and a bad influence. You move those guys out, he didn't and moreaus value is not going up each year.

If we are stuck with him as captain next year then Tambo has EPICALLY failed in changing the culture of the team.

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03-30-2010, 09:51 PM
  #123
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I wonder if anyone here who is *****ing about all of this could do any better considering all of the circumstances of being a GM in the NHL in Edmonton, I doubt any of you here could do a better job than the one that has been done by Lowe or Tambellini.

It could be worse...we could all be Shames fans. They have no prospects and are more than likely not making the post season and no pick in the first two rounds. I would much rather be an Oilers fan with a good crop of young prospects and the chance to draft Hall or Seguin.

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03-30-2010, 10:12 PM
  #124
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2006 - The only player to play in the NHL from this draft is Peckham. A marginal #6 - 7 defender. Petry continues to look like a quality prospect and has yet to play one NHL game. Until he plays in the show, he is still a prospect.

2007 - Gagner was the obvious choice at 6th. Even a monkey would of picked him here. Plante and Nash were utter failures as first round picks, indicative of terrible hockey managment.

2008 - Eberle looks to be a heck of a pick at 22nd, but has yet to play a game in the NHL. Even a blind squirrel will find a nut now and then.

2009 - Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson unexpectedly falls to 10th. This is an incredibly deep draft in which reminds me of the 2003 draft. No suprise here and no indication of better drafting, just because we don't make a stupid mistake like Pouliot.

A vast improvement in drafting would suggest some quality picks from rounds 3/4 and on that will contribute to this team. Where are they? Gagner and MPS are a product of serendipity.

As for the trade it is looking like Smid and Eberle for Pronger. We should of got a franchise player back. Again KLowe acting with emotion rather than logic.

So Omark, Lander, Hartikainen, Rajala, Roy, Kytnar, Motin, and Cornet are wasted picks? Many of them are showing good development signs, and at the very least have looked like good later-round picks. Criticizing a player drafted in the 5th round two years ago because he isn't someone that "will contribute to this team" is absolutely asinine. These kids need time to develop, those taken in the later rounds especially.

I also love how you dismiss Petry just because he isn't in the NHL yet

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03-30-2010, 10:47 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by MerryJ99 View Post
I wonder if anyone here who is *****ing about all of this could do any better considering all of the circumstances of being a GM in the NHL in Edmonton, I doubt any of you here could do a better job than the one that has been done by Lowe or Tambellini.

It could be worse...we could all be Shames fans. They have no prospects and are more than likely not making the post season and no pick in the first two rounds. I would much rather be an Oilers fan with a good crop of young prospects and the chance to draft Hall or Seguin.
Is it really too much to expect management to be good in isolation as well as relative to other GMs? At least we are not shames fans is a setting the bar a little low don't you think?

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