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Well, I guess Staal will be expecting 4M for his Contract this Offseason

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Old
04-03-2010, 02:30 PM
  #76
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Given the crappy state of the team till Redden comes off the books, i wouldnt be opposed to a Zetterburg or Hossa deal where Staal gets a front loaded 15yr deal and when he's reaching his prime is paid less then league average, as long as he understands the economics of such a deal.

Food for thought.

1) If McDonagh pans out is Staal expendable in say 4yrs?

2) I hope Staal's agent doesn't use Redden and Rozy's numbers as guidlines for a new contract, if so, ALL THE MORE REASON TO SHIP REDDEN OUT NO MATTER THE COST. Take Louie Lams model, for years nobody got more then Brodeur and there was no arguement to that reasoning, it kept peoples ego's in check and salaries relative to talent.

3) As good as Marc is, please remember Eric & Jordan were good players as well till they hit there mid 20's, then they both exploded physically. Eric became a bull on the puck just a few years ago, and Jordan in my eyes seems to have gained a few steps and a pressance this year that I havent seen in the past few years. I am absolutly waiting for Marc to develop his "adult" body and see what happens from there.


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04-03-2010, 02:54 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerDanger View Post
1) If McDonagh pans out is Staal expendable in say 4yrs?
No. Not in any way, shape or form. If McD ends up being as good as Staal, then we'll have the best shutdown pair in the league for years. No reason at all that we can't carry both.

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2) I hope Staal's agent doesn't use Redden and Rozy's numbers as guidlines for a new contract
He can't. Staal is a non-arbitration eligible RFA. Redden and Rozy were both signed as UFAs. His agent knows this. His contract will be based on those given to other non-arb RFA defensemen.

The only real question is the number of years. I doubt Sather will offer him more than his QO (this year's salary + 5%) on a 1 year deal. If Staal signs for 2 years, expect the per year amount to be around 2 mil. If he signs for 3 or more years, the per year amount will be 3 mil or more.

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3) As good as Marc is, please remember Eric & Jordan were good players as well till they hit there mid 20's, then they both exploded physically. Eric became a bull on the puck just a few years ago, and Jordan in my eyes seems to have gained a few steps and a pressance this year that I havent seen in the past few years. I am absolutly waiting for Marc to develop his "adult" body and see what happens from there.
Perhaps, but Jordan is younger than Marc, so I would have expected Marc to develop his "adult" body sooner. Marc is already a bull though. He hardly ever loses a 1 on 1 battle. Still, I don't think weve seen his best yet. He will continue to improve in the coming years.

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04-03-2010, 04:06 PM
  #78
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My bad, I thought Jordan was older than Marc.

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04-03-2010, 08:04 PM
  #79
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Re-sign him at ALL costs. I'd rather see Staal with an overpriced contract than anyone else. At least he gives a damn.

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04-03-2010, 08:16 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Staal is a better defenseman that Johnson, easily. He is light years ahead defensively and only has 6 less points on a much crappier team. He also logs a lot more ice time.
This is pretty much untrue on all counts other than the 6 points and being on a "much crappier team."

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04-03-2010, 08:29 PM
  #81
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Give him the money!
^^

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04-03-2010, 08:30 PM
  #82
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The price tag continues to raise....I had to take a double take when I saw Staal flying down the ice tonight.

Give him a 5M 7Yr deal.

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04-03-2010, 08:31 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by RangerDanger View Post
Food for thought.

1) If McDonagh pans out is Staal expendable in say 4yrs?

Absolutely not. If McDonagh lives up to his expectations him and Staal would make a great shutdown pair.

Anyways I see McDonagh as more of a 2nd pairing guy.

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04-03-2010, 08:56 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
This is pretty much untrue on all counts other than the 6 points and being on a "much crappier team."
LOL. I made 4 points:

1. Light years ahead defensively
2. Logs more Ice time
3. Only 6 points less then Johnson (make that 5 now)
4. On a worse team

Staal's TOI this season is over a minute higher then Johnson's, so you can't disagree there, no matter how hyped you are over the limited viewing of him you saw at the olympics. Jack Johnson is supposed to be an offensive defenseman (that is why he was on USA, playing on their 2nd power play unit) and he has 5 more points then Staal. He is on the same team as players like Doughty, Kopitar, Smyth and Frolov and he still can only muster 5 more points, and that is with powerplay time, which Staal gets none of (Johnson average over 2 more minutes per game worth of powerplay time). Wayne Simmonds would be on our 2nd line here, the Kings are a much better team. Jack Johnson is mediocre defensively, and a -15 on a good team. Staal is a +10 on a very bad team and is excellent defensively. He is also bigger, stronger and smarter then Johnson.

Marc Staal, right now, is a lot better then Jack Johnson.


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04-03-2010, 09:35 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
This is pretty much untrue on all counts other than the 6 points and being on a "much crappier team."
You'd be in the big minority right now.

JJ is more skilled than Staal, and may end up the better D in the future, but right now hands down its Staal who's clearly ahead.

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04-04-2010, 12:11 AM
  #86
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He has been on fire, 3 goals in the last 3 games. Do you think he could develop into more of a two-way defenseman as opposed to strictly a shut down guy? Could he become a shut down defenseman who chips in about 40 points a year (like a Phaneuf, Jovanovski, Ryan Suter type)?

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04-04-2010, 12:21 AM
  #87
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Jack Johnson is better than Staal?? The guy's like a -57. No way does he take care of his own end better than Staal. Not to mention he's playing on a better team.

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04-04-2010, 12:25 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by HenrikTheKing30 View Post
He has been on fire, 3 goals in the last 3 games. Do you think he could develop into more of a two-way defenseman as opposed to strictly a shut down guy? Could he become a shut down defenseman who chips in about 40 points a year (like a Phaneuf, Jovanovski, Ryan Suter type)?
Heck yea!! At 23 years of age, the sky's the limit for him. I'm hoping Staal's agent will be a bit patient. Maybe not get the big bucks this years (well, still a couple of mil) and wait until Drury and Rozsival's contracts expire. Then he can really cash in. That's what I think will happen. As far as I know, he likes it here in NY.

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04-04-2010, 12:49 AM
  #89
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Some of you need to put down the crackpipes. Anton Volchenkov, one of the best shut down defensemen in the league right now, will probably get 4 million or more in free agency. I wouldn't put Staal in the same class as Volchenkov yet, in a year or two maybe, but not right now.

At the same time, I think Marc's growth is going to be exponential. We are just starting to see what he can do on the offensive side of the puck, now that he's got the defensive game down.

If Staal and his agent are smart, they take a one or two year deal worth 1.75-2 million per season, then really cash in on the big bucks when he is UFA eligible. If the Rangers lock him in long term (3 years or more), he won't get more than 3.5 million/season, guaranteed.

Those of you wanting to give him 5 million a season need to chill out

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04-04-2010, 02:36 AM
  #90
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$3.5M for Staal seems fair. Sather might be smooth enough to get him to sign at $3M

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04-04-2010, 02:49 AM
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Staal still doesnt have arbitration rights does he?

if not, Sather is going to take him to the cleaners....2-2.25 mil.

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04-04-2010, 03:30 AM
  #92
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No way Staal gets 4 million. Historically Sather is tough with RFA's. I think he will get around 3 million.

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04-04-2010, 06:22 AM
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I brought up the Jack Johnson comparable for contract purposes. Johnson had no arb rights and LA stuck to their 2 year offer even when Johnson threatened to play in the KHL. Other teams elected to hand out 3-4 years deals but Lombardi balked. Sather will probably balk at giving Staal Letang $$$ when the Rangers have the leverage. Staal and Johnson are the same age. LA burned the first season of the ELC by playing Johnson at the end of the 06-07 season. Stupid. They lost an entire season of entry level money for 5 games.

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04-04-2010, 06:26 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by msg View Post
No way Staal gets 4 million. Historically Sather is tough with RFA's. I think he will get around 3 million.
What's the difference between $3 million and $4 million?$3-$3.5 million in the price for a long term 2nd contract.

Less than $2 million in a short term deal.Tyutin.Girardi.Dubinsky.

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04-04-2010, 02:42 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
LOL. I made 4 points:

1. Light years ahead defensively
2. Logs more Ice time
3. Only 6 points less then Johnson (make that 5 now)
4. On a worse team

Staal's TOI this season is over a minute higher then Johnson's, so you can't disagree there, no matter how hyped you are over the limited viewing of him you saw at the olympics. Jack Johnson is supposed to be an offensive defenseman (that is why he was on USA, playing on their 2nd power play unit) and he has 5 more points then Staal. He is on the same team as players like Doughty, Kopitar, Smyth and Frolov and he still can only muster 5 more points, and that is with powerplay time, which Staal gets none of (Johnson average over 2 more minutes per game worth of powerplay time). Wayne Simmonds would be on our 2nd line here, the Kings are a much better team. Jack Johnson is mediocre defensively, and a -15 on a good team. Staal is a +10 on a very bad team and is excellent defensively. He is also bigger, stronger and smarter then Johnson.

Marc Staal, right now, is a lot better then Jack Johnson.
You said that Staal logs much more ice time. I've seen Johnson play on LA before the Olympics. Johnson's defensive game is very underrated, and just because he was SUPPOSED to be an offensive defenseman coming into the league, doesn't mean that's what his game is today. You say he's on a team with players like Doughty, Kopitar, Smyth, and Frolov...yet he rarely sees ice time with any of them (he definitely doesn't see ice time with Doughty.)

Really playing devil's advocate, I'll point out Johnson is playing against much better offensive teams on a regular basis...in their division and their conference.

My whole point is that Staal is hardly light years ahead of Johnson, and for anyone to say Staal is the clear cut better defenseman after a few good games is laughable.

You should try and watch some actual games Johnson plays in if you're going to bash him or belittle him in comparisons, because stats rarely tell the entire story, particularly for a defenseman.

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04-04-2010, 03:05 PM
  #96
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$4 mil per year over 8 years! Overpay in the short term to save $$$ in the long run.... Staal will easily be worth $5 mil a season when he hits his prime.... Lock him up before he drives his price tag even higher.....

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04-04-2010, 03:12 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
You said that Staal logs much more ice time. I've seen Johnson play on LA before the Olympics. Johnson's defensive game is very underrated, and just because he was SUPPOSED to be an offensive defenseman coming into the league, doesn't mean that's what his game is today. You say he's on a team with players like Doughty, Kopitar, Smyth, and Frolov...yet he rarely sees ice time with any of them (he definitely doesn't see ice time with Doughty.)

Really playing devil's advocate, I'll point out Johnson is playing against much better offensive teams on a regular basis...in their division and their conference.

My whole point is that Staal is hardly light years ahead of Johnson, and for anyone to say Staal is the clear cut better defenseman after a few good games is laughable.

You should try and watch some actual games Johnson plays in if you're going to bash him or belittle him in comparisons, because stats rarely tell the entire story, particularly for a defenseman.
Unlike some posters here I have been on the Staal bandwagon his entire career. He has been better then Johnson every single season of their young careers, and the year Johnson finally starts making up ground, Staal is also improving a lot. I have seen Johnson plenty of times to, and right now he is all flash, relying on mainly his skill. He has a lot to learn, and I am not denying the fact that if he puts it all together he will be a better defenseman then Staal. There was a thread on the NHL board about how Johnson didn't have a leash in Michigan; he could do anything he wanted out there, and that is why he was so dominant. He came into the NHL with the same mentality and clearly it didn't work, and he is now just learning how to use his talent.

Really playing Devils advocate, Johnson doesn't have to match up against Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Parise and Kovalchuk on a nightly basis. Thornton, Getzlaf and Kopitar are no slouches, but they are a tier below a lot of the players Staal has to deal with. Johnson doesn't even match up with the top guys, Doughty and Scuderi do. So you're point was moot.

Cool, Jack Johnson is underrated defensively, calling him solid would be a reach. Staal is excellent defensively, plays 2 more minutes on average short handed per game, and is simply better. You can say Johnson isn't more offensive, but clearly we see a pattern. One of them is playing 2 more minutes of powerplay per game, one is playing 2 more minutes shorthanded. Johnson is not the go to offensive or defensive player on his team, while Staal anchors a blueline. One is a +10, and one is a -15.

Don't get me wrong, Johnson is a good defenseman and I would take him on the Rangers any day. He just isn't on Staal's level right now.

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04-04-2010, 03:41 PM
  #98
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yeah...I'm not sure how you can say Johnson is as good or better defensively than Staal right now when Staal is the Rangers #1 who's matched against other teams top players game in and game out, and he plays around 23 minutes per night with no PP time at all.

Staal is the Rangers shutdown guy while Johnson does not have that level of responsibility and it is very likely that he does not play against the level of competition that Staal does

Doesn't mean that Johnson is bad defensively, but cmon. Staal's sole job is to play against the best in the league at every opportunity, and he does it well. That's not Johnson's responsibility

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04-04-2010, 04:28 PM
  #99
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What's the difference between $3 million and $4 million?$3-$3.5 million in the price for a long term 2nd contract.

Less than $2 million in a short term deal.Tyutin.Girardi.Dubinsky.
Staal would be crazy to take a long term deal at 3 million. And even crazier to take any deal less then 2M.

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04-04-2010, 05:37 PM
  #100
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The problem here isn't if WE should give Staal this much money, it's knowing that he is a guy another GM will give that much money too

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