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#77: Flyers @ Islanders - April 1, 2010 - 7:00 PM (ET)

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04-01-2010, 09:14 PM
  #426
SolidSnakeUS
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Originally Posted by Bort Sampson View Post
Bingo.

They want Giroux or JvR at the very least.

The only selling point of JvR and Giroux is that they can probably turn into better players than they currently are.

Carle is overpaid and is really not that good. In fact he's kinda bad.

Coburn has a big body and doesn't use it properly. I've never seen a player with that much speed get burned so often.

Hartnell is awful. At this point, the more time he's on the ice the worse he's played.

Briere doesn't fit here, but he signed his contract and has said that he wants to be here because of his family.

If the Flyers are alright in trading JvR or Giroux for Price, I'd say pull the trigger. He's shown a hell of a lot more at this level, even in his rookie season, than either of them have shown this season.
So to get either we have to give up Giroux or JVR? This is why we should also look at Ellis. It really does annoy the **** out of me though we have to give up a forward and not a d-man. They need better d-men, they have really good offense. I dunno, I just don't think they should get rid of either.

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04-01-2010, 09:17 PM
  #427
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Would Montreal be interested in this:

To Philadelphia:
Carey Price
Andrei Kostitsyn

To Montreal:
Claude Giroux
Scott Hartnell

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04-01-2010, 09:18 PM
  #428
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What a disgrace.

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04-01-2010, 09:19 PM
  #429
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I still like this team
Hell we all love this team, seriously or we wouldn't be here *****ing and screaming!

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04-01-2010, 09:21 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by ArmchairGM View Post
Would Montreal be interested in this:

To Philadelphia:
Carey Price
Andrei Kostitsyn

To Montreal:
Claude Giroux
Scott Hartnell
No...

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04-01-2010, 09:23 PM
  #431
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I wonder if a deal centered around Hartnell for Simmonds+ could be figured out.

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04-01-2010, 09:24 PM
  #432
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Sign Hutton to a ELC and get him to start...

That would be too smart to do though.

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04-01-2010, 09:24 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by ArmchairGM View Post
I wonder if a deal centered around Hartnell for Simmonds+ could be figured out.
or Hartnel for the bag of pucks and a couple of used sticks?

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04-01-2010, 09:24 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Sign Hutton to a ELC and get him to start...

That would be too smart to do though.
I guess it couldn't hurt right now could it?

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Old
04-01-2010, 09:27 PM
  #435
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I guess it couldn't hurt right now could it?
Was he on the team before the deadline? Is he eligible to play, if he signs ELC?

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04-01-2010, 09:28 PM
  #436
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or Hartnel for the bag of pucks and a couple of used sticks?
maybe some broken sticks and half a roll of athletic tape.

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04-01-2010, 09:29 PM
  #437
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Was he on the team before the deadline? Is he eligible to play, if he signs ELC?
Nope, so he can't play in the playoffs.

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04-01-2010, 09:34 PM
  #438
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i got home, checked the score, and saw it was 4-1. after that i did my best to not think about the game until i got to work...well now im here.

so where was the collapse? 4 goals scored tells me it wasnt offense. so was our defense bad and goaltending bad? or was defense ok and goaltending goat-**** ****ing awful?

did Duchene (or however its spelled) play? was he awful?

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Old
04-01-2010, 09:36 PM
  #439
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So to get either we have to give up Giroux or JVR? This is why we should also look at Ellis. It really does annoy the **** out of me though we have to give up a forward and not a d-man. They need better d-men, they have really good offense. I dunno, I just don't think they should get rid of either.
Ellis is a good goalie, but the Flyers need a true #1. Ellis has only started 99 games in the NHL.

If the Flyers are going to get their goalie, and I really hope and even think they're going to, they're getting a guy that has had the starting position before and has played like a starter before. With the ability to shed Hartnell and Boucher's salary if necessary, they can realistically go out and get that guy.

The question that comes up after that is: what about the other problems?

They can't score consistently. They have two outstanding defenders in Timonen and Pronger, yet instead of learning from these players, their young defenders are learning what they can get away with when they've got these guys playing with them. There's basically no physical presence on this team, at all, which is really scary when the playoffs roll around.

Once you figure those things out, Gagne, Carter and Giroux need to be re-signed, let go, or traded.

I like Holmgren and all, but he really, really messed this team up. It's not just one mistake, it's all the mistakes adding up.

And I really doubt Montreal wants to get rid of either, but I don't think they want to sign two starters. I also doubt Halak or Price want to sign any kind of deal without knowing if they'll be the number 1 or not (which also determines if they'll be paid like a #1 or not). One of them is gone to the highest bidder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmchairGM View Post
I wonder if a deal centered around Hartnell for Simmonds+ could be figured out.
Simmonds is the younger, better player making 1/5 of what Hartnell makes. He's signed at that Cap hit for the next two seasons. It would be awesome for us, but there's basically no way that's happening.

The only way to get Hartnell out and bring in some possible value would be to trade him to Dallas for Turco, who is on an expiring contract. Then again, why would any team want Hartnell right now?

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04-01-2010, 09:37 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by ArmchairGM View Post
Would Montreal be interested in this:

To Philadelphia:
Carey Price
Andrei Kostitsyn

To Montreal:
Claude Giroux
Scott Hartnell

Don't like Kostitsyn. Grab some good wingers from one of the bottom 3 teams in the west or the east. Some teams might be blowing themselves up. Hopfully San Jose gets eliminated the first round so they feel they need to blow up. Also pray Calgary blows up so we can maybe grab somebody from there.

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04-01-2010, 09:39 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by Bort Sampson View Post
Ellis is a good goalie, but the Flyers need a true #1. Ellis has only started 99 games in the NHL.

If the Flyers are going to get their goalie, and I really hope and even think they're going to, they're getting a guy that has had the starting position before and has played like a starter before. With the ability to shed Hartnell and Boucher's salary if necessary, they can realistically go out and get that guy.

The question that comes up after that is: what about the other problems?

They can't score consistently. They have two outstanding defenders in Timonen and Pronger, yet instead of learning from these players, their young defenders are learning what they can get away with when they've got these guys playing with them. There's basically no physical presence on this team, at all, which is really scary when the playoffs roll around.

Once you figure those things out, Gagne, Carter and Giroux need to be re-signed, let go, or traded.

I like Holmgren and all, but he really, really messed this team up. It's not just one mistake, it's all the mistakes adding up.

And I really doubt Montreal wants to get rid of either, but I don't think they want to sign two starters. I also doubt Halak or Price want to sign any kind of deal without knowing if they'll be the number 1 or not (which also determines if they'll be paid like a #1 or not). One of them is gone to the highest bidder.
I mean, if you really wanted to, I'm sure we could get Turco at a discounted price. Even if it was half his current pay, do you think he could work on this team as a number 1? I just think that JVR and Giroux are too important to the core of the team and what the Flyers future is like. I still feel Gagne and Carter should go no where.

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04-01-2010, 09:48 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
I mean, if you really wanted to, I'm sure we could get Turco at a discounted price. Even if it was half his current pay, do you think he could work on this team as a number 1? I just think that JVR and Giroux are too important to the core of the team and what the Flyers future is like. I still feel Gagne and Carter should go no where.
I don't want Turco as a starter here. I want someone who is either flourishing at this level or is young and ready to take the reigns.

If the team wants to actually win, they need a long-term goalie, not a stop-gap.

The problem with this team is that as a result of their awful contract situation, they can only sign role players to short-term contracts (stop-gaps), which prevents them from holding onto players.

Not holding onto players means that every season, guys need to be re-worked into the system. Chemistry, something the Flyers have nothing of, is a huge issue.

I said it in another thread but I'll say it here:

The only roster players from the year the Flyers made it to the ECF are Briere, Richards, Carter, Gagne (25 games), Parent (22 games+playoffs), and Coburn. Oh, and Hartnell and Timonen.

That's a sloppy core. Three of them are overpaid. And then they went and got Carle.

They need a real goaltender, not an all-star but a guy who can play against any team, a real backup (Leighton works, maybe), 2 actual top-4 defensemen, and at least 2 top-6 forwards.

Hell, a defenseman who has the ability to be physical would be a godsend at this point. I don't want Pronger or Timonen doing it, I want a guy who knows that he's there because he can knock people off the puck and onto their ***** and I want a guy who's alright doing that. The Penguins have Orpik, who is a perfect example of that.

That's a whole lotta work with not much space/assets to work with.

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04-01-2010, 09:50 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by Bort Sampson View Post
I don't want Turco as a starter here. I want someone who is either flourishing at this level or is young and ready to take the reigns.

If the team wants to actually win, they need a long-term goalie, not a stop-gap.

The problem with this team is that as a result of their awful contract situation, they can only sign role players to short-term contracts (stop-gaps), which prevents them from holding onto players.

I said it in another thread but I'll say it here:

The only roster players from the year the Flyers made it to the ECF or Briere, Richards, Carter, Gagne (25 games), Parent (22 games+playoffs), and Coburn. Oh, and Hartnell and Timonen.

They need a real goaltender, not an all-star but a guy who can play against any team, a real backup (Leighton works, maybe), 2 actual top-4 defensemen, and at least 2 top-6 forwards.

That's a whole lotta work with not much space/assets to work with.
So we get rid of an important piece of our forwards to get one?

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04-01-2010, 09:50 PM
  #444
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Would the Valley Forge Colonials be interested in Boucher? The Quakers perhaps? I'm sure no aaa or junior teams would want him.

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04-01-2010, 09:59 PM
  #445
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Are people still going on with the 'goaltending doesn't matter' shtick?

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04-01-2010, 10:04 PM
  #446
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So we get rid of an important piece of our forwards to get one?
That's really not for us to decide.

But just as a question to your question: what do you consider an important piece to our forwards?

At this point, Dan Carcillo is an important piece to our forward group. So are two extremely young players. So is a guy we picked up a month ago.

This team has been in constant transition since Holmgren took over. They've never really had time to develop together.

They're not playing like a team because they are unsure of each other. It's not a cognitive process like, "I don't trust that guy, I'm not passing to him." Rather, it's knowing what another player will do. You can't trust your teammates to cover other players or even to drive a certain lane.

There's no cycle game or anything in the offensive zone. This is something this team used to be great at.

Now they're resorting to plays that consist of setting up shop at the back of the net and waiting for a guy to cut in and maybe get a shot that goes directly at the goaltender's chest. Or they're driving the wing and either losing the puck or shooting it at the goalie's glove.

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04-01-2010, 10:05 PM
  #447
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Are people still going on with the 'goaltending doesn't matter' shtick?
No.

Reading the page you're posting on might have given you that answer.

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04-01-2010, 10:07 PM
  #448
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No.

Reading the page you're posting on might have given you that answer.
He was being a bit sarcastic, mocking what a few people were saying before that you can win with average goalies (or even below average) as skaters (O and D) are more important.

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04-01-2010, 10:13 PM
  #449
Bort Sampson
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He was being a bit sarcastic, mocking what a few people were saying before that you can win with average goalies (or even below average) as skaters (O and D) are more important.
Sarcasm meter is off for the night.

This team is beyond immediate help, no jokes aside.

But to answer that question, goaltending is important and has been costing us games recently, whereas it was fine before and goal-scoring was costing us games.

What does that tell you?

Teams need consistency to win all year. Playoffs included. For the past two seasons, the Flyers have been booted from the playoffs because their defense, offense, and goaltending were completely outmatched by the Penguins.

No teams stumble upon Stanley Cups, and there are more good teams that make the playoffs than bad teams. The Flyers are benefiting from playing in a bad Conference, and yet rather than taking advantage of that and locking up the 4th spot, they're barely holding on to 8th.

Pronger might miss the playoffs for the first time in something like 14 straight seasons. Jeez...

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04-01-2010, 10:14 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by Bort Sampson View Post
That's really not for us to decide.

But just as a question to your question: what do you consider an important piece to our forwards?

At this point, Dan Carcillo is an important piece to our forward group. So are two extremely young players. So is a guy we picked up a month ago.

This team has been in constant transition since Holmgren took over. They've never really had time to develop together.

They're not playing like a team because they are unsure of each other. It's not a cognitive process like, "I don't trust that guy, I'm not passing to him." Rather, it's knowing what another player will do. You can't trust your teammates to cover other players or even to drive a certain lane.

There's no cycle game or anything in the offensive zone. This is something this team used to be great at.

Now they're resorting to plays that consist of setting up shop at the back of the net and waiting for a guy to cut in and maybe get a shot that goes directly at the goaltender's chest. Or they're driving the wing and either losing the puck or shooting it at the goalie's glove.
So I guess JVR or Giroux is gone after this season?

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