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Could Zherdev Reprise his Role on Broadway?

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Old
04-01-2010, 12:04 PM
  #51
DontStepanMe
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
For $3MM, yes. For $3.5MM, probably. For more, no.
this is how I feel.

on a side note: It's quite amusing how people clamor that we need more skill, but then want to turn their backs on skill players if they don't play like Ovechkin or Crosby. Zherdev is a 55-60 pt player, which is a very, very valuable commodity. He is a perfect 2nd line RW. if we could nab him for $3mil it could turn into a steal if he plays above what he did his first stint with us. If he puts up the same campaign it still would be a very respectable return for $3mil.

It's ridiculous that people expect every player, to score, pass, hit, backcheck, forecheck all at elite, or at the very least above average levels. Hell a player like Zherdev who isn't physical but has a ton of skill, could learn to play very will with two bigger bodies (Dubi + someone) who can give him a little more space and time. People that will complement what he brings to the table. We aren't going to find the perfect hockey player, all players have their deficiencies. it is up to the coaching staff, and management to hide deficiencies and put the right group of players to complement each others skills and specialties.

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04-01-2010, 12:05 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
+1

Brilliant post, Sir. Dead on.

If we keep jettisoning players to suit Torutrellas "non"-system we'll be fighting for a lotto every year. Torturella=fail
The Rangers offered him a deal so i dont know where this jettisoning stuff is coming from. Zherdev's been inconsistent in every system hes played in and that pretty much runs the gamut when you think of the differences in styles of Hitchcock/Renney/Tortorella. He wanted too much money, that was the problem.

He had several years to prove himself in Columbus and he was one of Sathers roll the dice risks then, and he will be again if they resign him. Numbers don't tell the whole story, if the Rangers want to free themselves of mediocrity they need gamers and Zherdev isnt one of those. Thats pretty much considered a fact when assessing his game.

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04-01-2010, 12:08 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
If Torts never wanted Zherdev, Rangers would have acted differently. Torts looks like he despises everyone. He might be an ahole, but he ain't stupid. Does he dislike MDZ as well? Mike had it worse that Z, he just had advantage of D shortage, otherwise he won't be seeing the ice time for quite awhile.
I do not think Torts is a problem. If Kovalchuk signs elsewhere, Z may be back. Disinterested enigma is much better than highly motivated plumber. Zherdev is Kovalev Light. I'd love to see him back.
Why isnt Torts the problem?

Quote:
Once the season ended, the Rangers extended a $3.2 million qualifying offer to the restricted free agent, only to have Zherdev turn it down and take the team to arbitration
If Torts was so against Zherdev, like many of you are stating why would he give Slats the green light to reup him? I know hes a hard ass, but lets be honest here people - Sathers the one making the decisions. Either that, or Tortorella really doesnt have as much pull as people think.

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04-01-2010, 12:10 PM
  #54
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I'd say we have a good shot of two of MZA, Prospal, Zherdev. We could probably afford all 3 if we somehow get rid of Redden. I wouldn't mind this team:
Callahan-Prospal-Gaborik
MZA-Anisimov-Zherdev
Drury-Dubinsky-Avery
Prust-Boyle-Byers/Shelley
Staal-Volchenkov
Del Zotto-Rozsival
Gilroy-Girardi

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04-01-2010, 12:11 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
If Torts was so against Zherdev, like many of you are stating why would he give Slats the green light to reup him? I know hes a hard ass, but lets be honest here people - Sathers the one making the decisions here. Either that, or Tortorella really doesnt have as much pull as people think.
Again, this is all based upon speculation, but, you have to figure this has been discussed internally. Either Tortorella is on board, or Tortorella is not going to be here so it doesn't matter what he thinks.

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04-01-2010, 12:12 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
I'd say we have a good shot of two of MZA, Prospal, Zherdev. We could probably afford all 3 if we somehow get rid of Redden. I wouldn't mind this team:
Callahan-Prospal-Gaborik
MZA-Anisimov-Zherdev
Drury-Dubinsky-Avery
Prust-Boyle-Byers/Shelley
Staal-Volchenkov
Del Zotto-Rozsival
Gilroy-Girardi
Thats a good team. Id like to see Christensen re-upped though

Prospal-Christensen-Gaborik
Zherdev-Dubinsky-Callahan
MZA-Anisimov-Avery
Prust-Drury-Byers

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04-01-2010, 12:16 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
The Rangers offered him a deal so i dont know where this jettisoning stuff is coming from. Zherdev's been inconsistent in every system hes played in and that pretty much runs the gamut when you think of the differences in styles of Hitchcock/Renney/Tortorella. He wanted too much money, that was the problem.

He had several years to prove himself in Columbus and he was one of Sathers roll the dice risks then, and he will be again if they resign him. Numbers don't tell the whole story, if the Rangers want to free themselves of mediocrity they need gamers and Zherdev isnt one of those. Thats pretty much considered a fact when assessing his game.
Thank you for being realistic and saying everything I planned to say and more. I do not by any means want Z back on this team. We know how its going to end. Id rather go after MZA who seems to be a gamer and hasn't already caused problems with the franchise.

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04-01-2010, 12:17 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Thats a good team. Id like to see Christensen re-upped though

Prospal-Christensen-Gaborik
Zherdev-Dubinsky-Callahan
MZA-Anisimov-Avery
Prust-Drury-Byers
Ah, forgot about him. Well IMO we'll be lucky to get two of Prospal/MZA/Zherdev, so he could fill in the spot for one of them, or even if we do get all 3, I'd dress him on the 4th line taking shifts with the other lines/ fill-in for injuries.

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04-01-2010, 12:18 PM
  #59
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pretty sure torts is the reason why antropov is tearin it up for atl this year and not us.

ill say it again, torts isnt a euro guy at all.

if you are a euro player and unless he thinks you are a key guy or a torts guy-- gaby, prospal and rozy are the only euros that fit that bill, the odds are that you will not get along with torts.

arty is always dicked around

lisin. nuf said.

joker benched.

kotalik- runout of town

heikkenin - not given a real look.

clowns brought in.

prust
christensen
shelley
locke
pap

take a look at our roster, its slowly being culled of all euros.

*edit

i find it ironic that we are perhaps one of the least offensively talented teams in the conference. but we have lots of north american grinder types


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Old
04-01-2010, 12:20 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Again, this is all based upon speculation, but, you have to figure this has been discussed internally. Either Tortorella is on board, or Tortorella is not going to be here so it doesn't matter what he thinks.
Heres my speculation - Vince Lombardi couldnt get Zherdev to be consistent. It doesnt matter what coach. Hes had three in the NHL and now he wants to leave another one in Russia. All of them left with headaches, i'm sure.

Sather is forever caught up in his dynamic skill=success because hes been hardwired from the Edmonton dynasty. Thats why hes signed Kovalev, Nedved, Rucinsky, and now maybe Zherdev for a second tour with the team. Hes comfortable with that type of player, because one of these days (still waiting) all of it will come together for the team. How many times has that approach worked out for him?

ZERO.

The approach should start with getting players who can WIN not just entertain the fans with the occasional toe drag move that ends up on the other teams stick or shot into the boards 3 feet wide with no following backcheck.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 04-01-2010 at 12:28 PM.
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Old
04-01-2010, 12:22 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
Ah, forgot about him. Well IMO we'll be lucky to get two of Prospal/MZA/Zherdev, so he could fill in the spot for one of them, or even if we do get all 3, I'd dress him on the 4th line taking shifts with the other lines/ fill-in for injuries.
Its not out of the question. If we lose Redden (-6.5) Jokinen (-5.25) and sign Volchenkov for 4.5,Zherdev for 3.5, MZA for 1 mil, Prospal for 2 mil, and Staal's raise is about 2 mil, its comes around even. Hard to say though.

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04-01-2010, 12:26 PM
  #62
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with a reasonable contract i wouldnt think twice about bringing Z back

this team needs supplimental scoring above all else, this is something he would bring

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04-01-2010, 12:28 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Why isnt Torts the problem?



If Torts was so against Zherdev, like many of you are stating why would he give Slats the green light to reup him? I know hes a hard ass, but lets be honest here people - Sathers the one making the decisions. Either that, or Tortorella really doesnt have as much pull as people think.
I think Torts was ambivalent about the guy. He let Slats to do the business part saying he'd be okay either way. Why? Because he knew that Zherdev would be demanding high effort from him as well. Z is obviously row material that has never been really coached. Coaches do not volunteer for extra work. Kotalik looked like a low maintenance fellow. In fact, compared to Zherdev, he was up until he wrecked the team with his trade demand, costing possibly the playoff berth.
Could Torts coach Zherdev? Absolutely, he is his material, same as Avery (another never coached player, requiring a lot of time), only better player.

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04-01-2010, 12:31 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
pretty sure torts is the reason why antropov is tearin it up for atl this year and not us.

ill say it again, torts isnt a euro guy at all.

if you are a euro player and unless he thinks you are a key guy or a torts guy-- gaby, prospal and rozy are the only euros that fit that bill, the odds are that you will not get along with torts.

arty is always dicked around

lisin. nuf said.

joker benched.

kotalik- runout of town

heikkenin - not given a real look.

clowns brought in.

prust
christensen
shelley
locke
pap

take a look at our roster, its slowly being culled of all euros.
lisin, kotalik, and jokinen all got what they desrved from their play on the ice

anisimov has taken some time to adjust but i've always seen Torts reward his good play with more ice time

prust and christensen have far exceded expectations...and PAP has risen to the occasion as a fill in everytime he's been called upon to do so


your trying to look for an anti-euro agenda that isnt there

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04-01-2010, 12:32 PM
  #65
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This organization, just so classy and organized !

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04-01-2010, 12:35 PM
  #66
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I think Torts was ambivalent about the guy. He let Slats to do the business part saying he'd be okay either way. Why? Because he knew that Zherdev would be demanding high effort from him as well. Z is obviously row material that has never been really coached. Coaches do not volunteer for extra work. Kotalik looked like a low maintenance fellow. In fact, compared to Zherdev, he was. Could Torts coach Zherdev? Absolutely, he is his material, same as Avery (another never coached player, requiring a lot of time), only better player.
I see what you are saying but i dont think its that cut and dry. Maybe they didnt do a perfect job of developing him correctly in Columbus. But its a two way street. Zherdev has to put the effort in too. Thats something you really cant teach. You can motivate and motivate and motivate, but thats the problem in and of itself, the fact that you have to do that.

He still might be raw in a sense, but hes 25 now going on 26. He should be finding that awfully soon. Maybe he has turned the corner in Russia? I have no idea. But an organization like the Rangers dont have time to wait for that. If they did they would have been sellers at the deadline right?

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04-01-2010, 12:35 PM
  #67
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This organization, just so classy and organized !
The purpose of organization is to organize others.

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04-01-2010, 12:39 PM
  #68
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This team is famous for their favoritism for Russian players. Especially budding stars. Each and every mock draft predicts us to pick a Russian forward. We generally look for the Russians in the draft and we deal with them greatly even though there are no guarantees and these players are stereotypically the highest risk to pick because of their lazy lofting play at times.

I'm a Zherdev fan, but the pro-Russian thing needs to stop. Sure, some of the worlds best players are Russian. Start drafting big Canadian forwards, cut it out with the high-risk predictability of every decent Russian is rumored to be going to the Rangers.

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04-01-2010, 12:44 PM
  #69
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04-01-2010, 12:49 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
pretty sure torts is the reason why antropov is tearin it up for atl this year and not us.

ill say it again, torts isnt a euro guy at all.

if you are a euro player and unless he thinks you are a key guy or a torts guy-- gaby, prospal and rozy are the only euros that fit that bill, the odds are that you will not get along with torts.

arty is always dicked around

lisin. nuf said.

joker benched.

kotalik- runout of town

heikkenin - not given a real look.

clowns brought in.

prust
christensen
shelley
locke
pap

take a look at our roster, its slowly being culled of all euros.

*edit

i find it ironic that we are perhaps one of the least offensively talented teams in the conference. but we have lots of north american grinder types
Wow, you're really reaching here. There are many reasons to dislike Torts but "he's anti-Euro" is just a patently false statement.

Players like PAP and Locke were brought in because of injury. Perhaps a player like Kotalik was run out of town because he was awful and had attitude problems? Perhaps Lisin doesn't play a lot because he's just not that good and doesn't play well away from the puck?

And it has been discussed ad naseum on these boards that Antropov wasn't brought back because Sather thought he was asking for too much money.

Ruslan Fedotenko and Pavel Kubina played some of their best hockey under Torts. If he was anti-Euro, they wouldn't even gotten a chance.

I think you need to put aside the tin foil hat....

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04-01-2010, 12:50 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
This team is famous for their favoritism for Russian players. Especially budding stars. Each and every mock draft predicts us to pick a Russian forward. We generally look for the Russians in the draft and we deal with them greatly even though there are no guarantees and these players are stereotypically the highest risk to pick because of their lazy lofting play at times.

I'm a Zherdev fan, but the pro-Russian thing needs to stop. Sure, some of the worlds best players are Russian. Start drafting big Canadian forwards, cut it out with the high-risk predictability of every decent Russian is rumored to be going to the Rangers.
weve drafted exactly 2 russians in the 1st round the last 18 years.

kovy and chery

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04-01-2010, 12:50 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
This team is famous for their favoritism for Russian players. Especially budding stars. Each and every mock draft predicts us to pick a Russian forward. We generally look for the Russians in the draft and we deal with them greatly even though there are no guarantees and these players are stereotypically the highest risk to pick because of their lazy lofting play at times.
We generally look for Russians in the draft? Not really. Since 2000, the Rangers have drafted 6 Russian players:

Fedor Tyutin
Leonid Zhackin
Artem Anisimov
Alexei Cherepanov
Evgeny Grachev
Mikhail Pashnin

The mock drafts can say what they want but that doesn't make it so.

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04-01-2010, 12:50 PM
  #73
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Maybe they didnt do a perfect job of developing him correctly in Columbus. But its a two way street. Zherdev has to put the effort in too. Thats something you really cant teach.
Just the opposite is true. It is the only aspect that NHL coaching staff could really affect. Effort is a mental action. Mental activity is not always under control of particular individual. Yet it is possible to improve it. That is what coaches do. Well, they do other things, but Zherdev didn't need as much help in other areas of developing. Columbus just played him. They could not work with him on his psychic aspects because he had no English. Then they gave up on him, having Nash next was a good excuse (something Rangers didn't have last season), declaring him unable to carry the team. They could be right, but with Gaborik he doesn't need to carry much.

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04-01-2010, 12:52 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
This team is famous for their favoritism for Russian players. Especially budding stars. Each and every mock draft predicts us to pick a Russian forward. We generally look for the Russians in the draft and we deal with them greatly even though there are no guarantees and these players are stereotypically the highest risk to pick because of their lazy lofting play at times.

I'm a Zherdev fan, but the pro-Russian thing needs to stop. Sure, some of the worlds best players are Russian. Start drafting big Canadian forwards, cut it out with the high-risk predictability of every decent Russian is rumored to be going to the Rangers.
It goes hand in hand with what I was just saying. Sather has a comfort zone with the type of players he brings in. (As well as the GMs he deals with). I dont know what it is. Maybe he feels the the Canadian or American star is too hot to handle, because they are aware of Sathers fraudulent reputation.

I could be way off here, and stop me if im being silly. I wont mind. But i think its a character flaw with Slats.

Sure hes a HOF'er. But things have changed since the Oilers dynasty. Greatly. Its like if he brings in young Russian superstars and Slovaks like Gaborik, he can still retain his autocratic dominance over them. Prospects are a different story. They are always going to be under the boss. But besides Avery Torts and Jagr, not many strong personalities are brought in here. Maybe thats part of the problem with this team over the past 10 years.

Hes always giving second chances, taking on reclamation projects, rolling the dice with spurned veterans.

Its not just about Europeans. It seems like he (consciously or unconsciously) wants to have that dominance over that kind of personnel in a certain sense. I dont know. I tend to read into things too much. But his whole persona seems to fit that mold. Doesnt talk to media. Only gives interviews for PR purposes. Favors the skilled player (especially the defenseman) instead of the hard nose one. He seems to cater to the weaker minded individual and here we are wondering why the team always sucks and is soft.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 04-01-2010 at 12:57 PM.
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04-01-2010, 12:53 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
This team is famous for their favoritism for Russian players. Especially budding stars. Each and every mock draft predicts us to pick a Russian forward. We generally look for the Russians in the draft and we deal with them greatly even though there are no guarantees and these players are stereotypically the highest risk to pick because of their lazy lofting play at times.

I'm a Zherdev fan, but the pro-Russian thing needs to stop. Sure, some of the worlds best players are Russian. Start drafting big Canadian forwards, cut it out with the high-risk predictability of every decent Russian is rumored to be going to the Rangers.
For years i've tried to convince people about the NY/Russian myth thing, but so many mock drafts and professional hockey personnel tend to believe otherwise. For one, almost every player would love to play in NY, for the many reasons people in all occupations chose to come here.

Also, ask most Russian players who come over if having Russians around them is important. About 90% say its no big deal, in fact, they came over to experience NA life here, not be around more Russians - they already know that life, they come here to experience a new one.

That said, if we signed a team full of Nemchinovs I really wouldn't care where they came from - a winner is a winner no matter where he plays.

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