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Old
04-01-2010, 09:32 PM
  #26
Overkamp
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I'm tired of people defending Jackman. I'm done. I'm too angry to post anymore. He does this..every..single..game.

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04-01-2010, 09:39 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Overkamp View Post
I'm tired of people defending Jackman. I'm done. I'm too angry to post anymore. He does this..every..single..game.
Perhaps I should take the approach of many on this board... When it can be Jackman's fault, it is Jackman's fault.

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04-01-2010, 09:43 PM
  #28
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This year has been so brutally frustrating, every time I start to get hope this team will go on a roll they always lose the next couple of games. Every time I think they have a chance to move up, they blow it. Now I bet they're going to win the next couple and finish like 2 or 3 points out of the playoffs, so frustrating to know if they didn't blow all those third period leads and lose the games they should have won (a few against Columbus and Edmonton) we would be in the playoffs again.

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04-01-2010, 09:43 PM
  #29
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It's a shame to have all hope gone this early. We can look back on a LOT of games this season that COULD have been won, that were lost, and a several that were tied and lost. The Blues need to get tougher, more skilled, and confident enough to have "killer instinct". They should be dictating the action,- not just reacting to the other team's control.

I hope Blues' management understands that their young kids need a stronger team to have a better atmosphere in which to grow and develop.

I don't want a disappointing off-season after this disappointing season.

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Old
04-01-2010, 09:44 PM
  #30
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I'm sorry Payne got outcoached this game. I have no idea what the hell he was thinking in the middle of the game. He totally changed lines putting Winchester with Perron and Berglund and McDonald with McClement and Crombeen. He completely rearranged the most dominant line up to that point. Fitting end to the season choking up a 2-0 lead. The defenseman were pathetic. Nashville's D-men are so much better at ours at everything from the transition game to punishing forwards who try and go wide. Bleeping brutal.

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Old
04-01-2010, 10:10 PM
  #31
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Saw the highlights on NHL Network -- ridiculous to give up a goal in the last 10-seconds of any period. EJ just couldn't free the puck from the dude's skates. Should've erased him with a stiff arm to the logo, IMO. I hate to even say this, but at this point the Blues ought to tank it and hope the lottery proves fortuitous. Currently, we sit at No. 15 overall, with a three-point lead on No. 22.

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04-01-2010, 11:01 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Note fan in Big D View Post
Saw the highlights on NHL Network -- ridiculous to give up a goal in the last 10-seconds of any period. EJ just couldn't free the puck from the dude's skates. Should've erased him with a stiff arm to the logo, IMO. I hate to even say this, but at this point the Blues ought to tank it and hope the lottery proves fortuitous. Currently, we sit at No. 15 overall, with a three-point lead on No. 22.
That's it, exactly! E.J. should have taken the forward out of the play, and then Jackman just sweeps up the puck and carries it out of danger. Any defenceman or forward who has played organised hockey is taught that. Why does E.J. try to play a "finesse" game almost ALL the time. He's got great size and strength. He's a DEFENCEMAN! Why doesn't he use it to his advantage??? Jackman's a little guy (relatively). E.J. should have taken the man out.

BUT, it still wouldn't (and shouldn't) have been a goal, anyway. Where was the forward who should have been on Wilson??? He was ALL alone, wide open to swoop in and grab the puck, without anyone to even impede him slightly!

ALL 5 Blues let down with 10 seconds left DEEP in the OTHER team's zone!!! If they had any killer instinct, The Preds wouldn't have even had possession of the puck, let alone take it the length of the ice and score with 3 seconds left. There's no excuse for such ragged play.

The Blues need major young skilled veteran high-quality upgrades in all three major position groups (a #1 defenceman, a star forward and another good young scorer, and a more younger but more consistent goaltender). The Blues have to bite the bullet and spend almost all the way to the cap to get that done (but it's necessary).

No more Brewer, Sydor, Kariya, Winchester, Janssen (probably Tkachuk and probably Mason).

Kovalchuk or Marleau or Frolov or Plekanec or (someone we haven't considered by trade), plus Kaberle or ?, plus Price or Halak or Schneider or Harding, or Vokoun AND a youngster, or....

The improvement of the kids with no help from still viable veterans will result in possibly missing the playoffs again, or getting knocked out early. For the kids to develop properly, and on a good pace, it will be a lot better to give them a more stable winning atmosphere.

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Old
04-01-2010, 11:13 PM
  #33
Blues88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grouch View Post
Jackman played it right... Johnson shouldn't have collapsed on his own net. If Johnson would have played the body in that situation the puck would've gone to the position where Jackman was anticipating it would go and the whole play becomes quite routine. Unfortunately that didn't happen.
Hate to single your comments out, but Johnson stuck his man, which is right in that situation. He could have played it ALOT better and EJ had a shaky shaky game. But Jackman anticipating? He trailed the play and instead of getting in front of the other forward who trailed the play he "anticipated" himself behind Johnson and to the left side of the goal. The trailing forward simply picked the puck out of the skates of his teammate and went right and to the backhand. It wasnt played routine, and this result has become quite routine for this blueline....

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Originally Posted by The Grouch View Post
Jackman didn't have a man in that situation. The Preds forward was late coming in(and should have been defended by a Blues forward). Jackman should have been playing the puck. It was Johnson duty to separate Hornqvist from the puck, he didn't do it.
Hornqvist also had no opportunity to make a play on the puck because he was tied up and the puck was in his skates. Im not a bash Jackman before all others guy but there are just as many who blindly defend him as there are who blindly bash him. He is a physical shutdown guy with poor positioning and questionable decision making. He gets drawn to the back of the net and ALWAYS leaves a wide open lane to the slot. That isnt up for debate. He is a lion and puts in alot of minutes, but that doesnt automatically make him "good" or absolved of accountability.

Point is, he gave up on that third goal, just like everyone else on this team. It isnt just a trend with Jackman. Getting beat to every loose puck, making questionable passes through the defensive zone slot, bad penalties. It was a terrible team effort for a club facing elimination. The team wide attitude of simply turning it on late, obviously, is not the greatest philosophy.

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Old
04-02-2010, 12:23 AM
  #34
The Grouch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues88 View Post
Hate to single your comments out, but Johnson stuck his man, which is right in that situation.

I'm not sure what "stuck his man" means, but Johnson skating backwards from the neutral zone was backed to just outside his own goal crease. The whole time he is slashing and swinging his stick trying to play the puck. He had several chances to play the body, especially when Hornqvist lost possession. Johnson played that poorly!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues88
But Jackman anticipating? He trailed the play and instead of getting in front of the other forward who trailed the play he "anticipated" himself behind Johnson and to the left side of the goal.

Had Johnson played Hornqvist correctly the play would have gone like this:

- Hornqvist corrals puck at St. Louis blueline

- Erik Johnson impedes Hornqvist's progress

- Puck's momentum continues it to the spot Jackman was skating to("behind Johnson and to the left side of the goal")

- Jackman is in control of the puck with 3 seconds left


It's a play that you see a lot in the NHL. One defensman plays the man while the other collects the puck.

It should also be noted that Johnson and Jackman don't often play together so maybe that contributed to them not being on the same page.

You can watch the video here:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2009021155



Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues88
Im not a bash Jackman before all others guy but there are just as many who blindly defend him as there are who blindly bash him.

I don't see many people "blindly defending him". I often like to play devil's advocate, and Jackman is one of the easier guys to "defend" because most of the hatred for him comes from those who have a skewed view of defensive techniques. Tonight is a great example of that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues88
He is a physical shutdown guy with poor positioning and questionable decision making. He gets drawn to the back of the net and ALWAYS leaves a wide open lane to the slot...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues88
That isnt up for debate.

Yes Sir!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues88
Point is, he gave up on that third goal...

I completely disagree. I'm not sure what you wanted Jackman to do in that situation? If you want to say he is slow, fine(though how many players could've caught Steve Sullivan). Jackman was actually able to make a play on the puck(without taking a penalty), but Sullivan got a lucky break as the puck went off of his foot. If Jackman had taken Sullivan down he definately would have taken a penalty and maybe even given Sullivan a penalty shot. A lot of things went right for Nashville on that play.

You can watch the video here:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2009021155

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Old
04-02-2010, 12:36 AM
  #35
SteenMachine
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All I can add is I'll never understand why the d-man gets torn apart and the opposing forwards never gets an ounce of credit for actually making the play count. Half the argument sounds like we defend an empty net.

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Old
04-02-2010, 01:02 AM
  #36
Robb_K
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On Wilson's goal:

As soon as Jackman approached the pair of E.J. and Hornqvist, E.J. should have taken his attention off the puck and hit Hornqvist, impeding his progress and knocking him off the puck, and Jackman could have picked it up cleanly (with no pressure), and carried it back towards centre ice. Wilson was still several strides away.

I guess that because they don't play together much, they didn't know who was going to do what. But, when I played youth hockey, ALL my coaches taught us what to do in that situation. The closest man to the puck carrier takes the opponent out of the play, and the other one scoops up the puck. We were taught to do that, whether our two players were two defencemen, or one D-man and one forward, or 2 forwards.

E.J. could have, and SHOULD have taken Hornqvist out of the play sooner (he spent too long going for the puck-allowing Hornqvist to get much closer to the goal than he should have). True that Jackman should have stopped in front of the goal. Going far off to the left of the goal was no help at all. But that should have been a routine play. Payne had better make sure that players that MIGHT play together know what each other are going to do. There's no excuse for that type of situation.

But, I repeat that it seems as though all 5 Blues on the ice stopped playing hard before that last 11.5 seconds (as if there was NO chance The Preds could get the puck all the way down ice in that "short" time). Have they ever played hockey??? If you don't hit the other team or skate with them and get in their way, they can get it all the way there easily in 6 or 7 seconds. Now that 2 line passes are legal, they can get it all the way across in maybe 4 or 5 seconds. The Blues HAD to WIN to stay alive. How can they not be trying as hard as possible until time runs out??? There should have been a forward on Wilson. The Blues "easing up" with 15 seconds left allowed them to lose control of the puck in The Preds' end. Had they played full out until the horn, Hornqvist wouldn't have gotten the puck past his own blue line.


This team doesn't have the attitude of a winner. Let's hope they find it next season.

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Old
04-02-2010, 01:06 AM
  #37
MissouriBlues2008
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I was reading the Vasteras paper translated through Google. It said about Berglund oversleeping:
"Missed training
- Berglund poked"



http://translate.google.com/translat...rglund-petades

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Old
04-02-2010, 01:31 AM
  #38
Robb_K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissouriBlues2008 View Post
I was reading the Vasteras paper translated through Google. It said about Berglund oversleeping:
"Missed training
- Berglund poked"



http://translate.google.com/translat...rglund-petades
It also said that Berglund "asked his teammates to apologise". Internet translators can be very funny. But they don't work very well. But Google Translator is a lot better than Babelfish (which can come up with some hilarious so-called "translations".

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Old
04-02-2010, 01:31 AM
  #39
2 Minute Minor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissouriBlues2008 View Post
I was reading the Vasteras paper translated through Google. It said about Berglund oversleeping:
"Missed training
- Berglund poked"



http://translate.google.com/translat...rglund-petades
Wow, tough punishment!

Frustrating way for the tiny flicker of hope to die. The Blues looked really intense for the first period. They could easily have scored more than one. I sure wish McClement had been able to put away that open backhand....or Perron could have elevated that puck just a little at the end of the game.

During a season, you're going to win and lose some games like this. It was poorly officiated and the ice looked terrible. But the Blues have already lost too many chances to absorb a game like this.

When the Preds got their 3rd goal, I think the Blues began to look really tight. They lost their structure a lot, and the offensive chances became considerably less dangerous. Give the Preds a lot of credit for taking away the neutral zone...although they were also serving up some juicy give-aways in their own zone.

I'd be pleased to see Payne endorsed for a full season next year. I can't imagine them not doing that. And then I want to see the front office look like magicians and make a few moves to get excited about. Checkett's rhetoric about being "aggressive" this off-season needs to bear some fruit.

I've come to the conclusion I don't really want to see any more Kariya, even if he's willing to sign for a lower salary. I just don't think it will be low enough. Since I don't think Kovalchuk will come, or that he's a team leader, I'd like to see Marleau signed.

Last prediction: Calgary gets in the 8th spot and Colorado's feel-good story ends in flames (ha ha ha) when all the rookies they've been riding this season hit the wall at the same time.

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Old
04-02-2010, 03:12 AM
  #40
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On Wilson's goal, both D should be blame for the goal. I would put more blame on Jackman though. Instead of knowing where the other player is, puts his head down to try to fish the puck out of the skates of Hornqvist which allowed Wilson to be wide open for the easy goal. As big as EJ is though, he should have just knocked Hornqvist on his a$$.

Wasn't happy with EJs performance tonight, mainly defensively. He definitely needs to work on that in the off season by watching tape for hours each day and to keep just getting stronger.

If we would have won tonight, we would have set our selves up good to get the last spot for the playoffs. Guess this team doesn't really want to make the playoffs.

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Old
04-02-2010, 09:45 AM
  #41
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To simplify things, the bottom line is the Blues only scored two goals. Their scoring woes continue.

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Old
04-02-2010, 10:46 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grouch View Post
I'm not sure what "stuck his man" means, but Johnson skating backwards from the neutral zone was backed to just outside his own goal crease. The whole time he is slashing and swinging his stick trying to play the puck. He had several chances to play the body, especially when Hornqvist lost possession. Johnson played that poorly!





Had Johnson played Hornqvist correctly the play would have gone like this:

- Hornqvist corrals puck at St. Louis blueline

- Erik Johnson impedes Hornqvist's progress

- Puck's momentum continues it to the spot Jackman was skating to("behind Johnson and to the left side of the goal")

- Jackman is in control of the puck with 3 seconds left


It's a play that you see a lot in the NHL. One defensman plays the man while the other collects the puck.

It should also be noted that Johnson and Jackman don't often play together so maybe that contributed to them not being on the same page.

You can watch the video here:
[URL="http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2009021155"]http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2009021155[/URL

I completely disagree. I'm not sure what you wanted Jackman to do in that situation? If you want to say he is slow, fine(though how many players could've caught Steve Sullivan). Jackman was actually able to make a play on the puck(without taking a penalty), but Sullivan got a lucky break as the puck went off of his foot. If Jackman had taken Sullivan down he definately would have taken a penalty and maybe even given Sullivan a penalty shot. A lot of things went right for Nashville on that play.

You can watch the video here:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2009021155
I'm with you on this one, after watching those videos, the first goal I think Jackman did the right thing, EJ was taking the man so Jackman went to take the puck, it just took an unlucky bounce of EJ's skate and went right to Wilsons stick. I can't really blame Jackman for that goal.

On the second goal, everything that could have happened right for Sullivan, happened. First he knocked the puck out of mid air onto his stick, and then Jackman hit the puck and it hit Sullivans shinpad and went right onto his stick again, and with Sullivans speed, their is nothing Jackman could have done on that play.

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Old
04-02-2010, 12:03 PM
  #43
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That was a perfect game to define this season.

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Old
04-02-2010, 12:26 PM
  #44
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What baffles me is that last season we were the ones that pulled off the come from behind wins and were able to protect the lead well and this year it has been a complete 180 from that. Maybe just missing the playoffs this year will light a fire under some of these players and they find some killer instinct again.

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04-02-2010, 01:41 PM
  #45
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What baffles me is that last season we were the ones that pulled off the come from behind wins and were able to protect the lead well and this year it has been a complete 180 from that. Maybe just missing the playoffs this year will light a fire under some of these players and they find some killer instinct again.
I don't see the killer instinct in this team. I definitely didn't see any killer instinct last night.

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Old
04-02-2010, 06:42 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by TheOrganist View Post
I mean EJ didn't play that well but all Jackman had to do was stop in front of the net instead of skate right by the play.

Payne went a little uber-defensive after they scored their goal. Perron and Berglund were playing great I think they had a shift after the halfway point.

I'm so effing sick of losing to Nashville in heartbreaking fashion. Please pull this out.
EJ can not handle one man and Jackman is a target?

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Old
04-02-2010, 08:40 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grouch View Post
I'm not sure what "stuck his man" means, but Johnson skating backwards from the neutral zone was backed to just outside his own goal crease. The whole time he is slashing and swinging his stick trying to play the puck. He had several chances to play the body, especially when Hornqvist lost possession. Johnson played that poorly!





Had Johnson played Hornqvist correctly the play would have gone like this:

- Hornqvist corrals puck at St. Louis blueline

- Erik Johnson impedes Hornqvist's progress

- Puck's momentum continues it to the spot Jackman was skating to("behind Johnson and to the left side of the goal")

- Jackman is in control of the puck with 3 seconds left


It's a play that you see a lot in the NHL. One defensman plays the man while the other collects the puck.

It should also be noted that Johnson and Jackman don't often play together so maybe that contributed to them not being on the same page.

You can watch the video here:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2009021155






I don't see many people "blindly defending him". I often like to play devil's advocate, and Jackman is one of the easier guys to "defend" because most of the hatred for him comes from those who have a skewed view of defensive techniques. Tonight is a great example of that.







Yes Sir!





I completely disagree. I'm not sure what you wanted Jackman to do in that situation? If you want to say he is slow, fine(though how many players could've caught Steve Sullivan). Jackman was actually able to make a play on the puck(without taking a penalty), but Sullivan got a lucky break as the puck went off of his foot. If Jackman had taken Sullivan down he definately would have taken a penalty and maybe even given Sullivan a penalty shot. A lot of things went right for Nashville on that play.

You can watch the video here:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2009021155
If Johnson was supposed to take Hornqvist out on the first goal, then why wasn't Jackamn supposed to take Sullivan out on the second goal? Here is my reasons for calling Jackman out on his play:
Since the day he was drafted I have been a huge Jackman fan. I was certain that he was going to be the captain of the Blues for 10+ years and possibly lead us to the Cup one day. He used to play with a tremendous amount of intensity and passion. He was bashed tremendously post lockout when he couldn't adjust to the "new" NHL rules and I defended him. However, something has happened to him over the past 2 years. He cannot handle the puck without turnovers anymore, even in scrums after the whistle he doesn't seem to want to mix things up, and like last night he has some games where he gets caught chasing the puck around and fails to protect the front of the net. More importanly he pisses me off because he is capable of being a passionate steady shutdown defenceman, but for whatever he fails to do that consistently. He used to epitomize killer instinct. Now i'm not sure he even knows what it means.

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Old
04-02-2010, 10:54 PM
  #48
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I was at the game (visiting parents) and I watched multiple replays. It doesnt matter really, but for what its worth, Johnson had Hornqvist tied up. The quality of that tie up is certainly questionable, but he was in front of his man (oncoming forward) and Hornqvist could not have made a play. This whole unlucky bounce business is an excuse, and a crap one at that. Jackman and a Nashville forward trailed the play. The idea would be for Jackman to get in front of that trailing forward instead of anticipating himself completely out of the play. If he "made a play for the puck" I didnt see it and it was an incredibly feeble attempt. All that trailing forward had to do was dig the puck from the skates of his teammate and go right and to the backhand with both Johnson (with his man) and Jackman on the left side of the goal.

Being a devils advocate is great but there isnt a solid reason Jackman SHOULDNT be criticized. As I said, Johnson deserves blame, he had a terrible game like everyone else. He could have knocked Hornqvist on his backside but he didnt. The point is, in hockey, you have a guy who takes the man with the puck and a guy who plays from a support position. Jackman let "his" man grap a puck and he allowed a clear lane to the right of the goal by playing himself to the left corner behind Johnson. I dont see how that is a correct play regardless of what Johnson did. Again, this is a trend with Jackman. Not protecting the slot is a trend for our entire blueline.

Another classic excuse is Jackmans speed. If he truly anticipates these plays, then I would love an explanation of what he was doing when the puck was flipped from the Nashville zone on the third goal? Sullivan wasnt behind him and getting a clean break....It was terrible. Hooking a guy from behind means you were out of position, and since I saw this in person and in multiple replays I can tell you Jackman laid an egg. He should have atleast been facing in front of Sullivan getting to that puck. Come on.

My problem is, time and time again you hear what borders on arrogance from this team. Well we havent played too well, we blow leads in the third, but we can turn it on late. We can win 10 of 11.

Really? Playing lackluster and abandoning fundamentals doesnt look (to me) like a good starting points to winning games. As I said, EVERYONE is at fault. Mason was solid, but when people are allowed to walk in, what can you reasonably expect?

Steen leads this team with 24 goals. 24.

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Old
04-02-2010, 10:58 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by St.Louis sports fan View Post
If Johnson was supposed to take Hornqvist out on the first goal, then why wasn't Jackamn supposed to take Sullivan out on the second goal? Here is my reasons for calling Jackman out on his play:
Since the day he was drafted I have been a huge Jackman fan. I was certain that he was going to be the captain of the Blues for 10+ years and possibly lead us to the Cup one day. He used to play with a tremendous amount of intensity and passion. He was bashed tremendously post lockout when he couldn't adjust to the "new" NHL rules and I defended him. However, something has happened to him over the past 2 years. He cannot handle the puck without turnovers anymore, even in scrums after the whistle he doesn't seem to want to mix things up, and like last night he has some games where he gets caught chasing the puck around and fails to protect the front of the net. More importanly he pisses me off because he is capable of being a passionate steady shutdown defenceman, but for whatever he fails to do that consistently. He used to epitomize killer instinct. Now i'm not sure he even knows what it means.
+1 The bolded is unquestionable.
Jackman was a good shutdown defenseman and I agree all the way. Not here to bash him at all. The guy could be, and was, an animal. But you hit the nail on the head.

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04-02-2010, 11:42 PM
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Robb_K
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Jackman made poor plays on both goals, and E.J. made a poor play on the 2nd goal. E.J. wasted several seconds flailing his stick at the puck, trying to take it, before taking his man out. He should have had his man under control before they hit the Blues' blueline. Then, Jackman would have picked up the puck and carried it back towards the red line along the boards with 5-6 seconds left. Jackman should have picked up the puck (or seen that he couldn't, and then taken the trailer (Wilson) out of the play.

On the winning goal, Jackman had a good angle on Sullivan when Sully got the puck. He should have taken a sharp angle cutting of Sully's path towards the goal, to be able to be in front of him. Instead, he took a trajectory towards where Sullivan started! Did he think Sullivan was going to stand there and wait for him??? That is just plain silly. You would think this guy never played hockey before, and also must have been in a coma for most of his life. How could he not know that he needed to cut off his opponent's potential paths as opposed to trying to end up where his opponent is starting from? Sullivan is a lot faster and more mobile, and having the puck, he knows where he is going, while the defender must guess. Jackman almost took himself out of the play from the start.

As it happened, Sullivan slowed a bit, to decide what to work on Mason, and Jackman caught up enough to get his stick on the puck. But, bad luck kept it with Sullivan, and the goal was scored, anyway. But, had Jackman taken the correct trajectory in the first place, he could have been in position to defend from the front, and break up the play.

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