I'm dumbfounded by anyone believing Quick won't bounce back from his little slump.
If Quick has proven anything this year, it is his resilience. Hell, he does it in nearly every game he plays. Every derision about soft goals needs to be followed up with the fact that when Quick does let it in a soft goal, 9 times out of 10 he shuts the door afterward. The guy battles as hard as anyone I've seen in net for the Kings.
Sure, it is within the realm of possibility that he slumps and slumps harder, but it is far from likely. I have every bit of faith in Quick to provide us goaltending that, if not stellar itself, will allow us to win every game now through the playoffs in which the team is playing well in front of him.
I have far more concerns about the team playing like dumbasses than Quick costing us wins.
You know, I was arguing the same thing about Murray's job a year ago... Now, I don't think he is going to change everything to save his job, just as Lombardi wouldn't panic and make drastic decisions to save his. Honestly, Murray and Lombardi have been following their word pretty closely. I don't really see how anyone could ignore what they are saying and predict something completely opposite anymore, because they follow their word.
Bernier is in the minors, Quick is the number 1 and he is the sole earner of this postseason berth. Bernier needs to finish his season. Blah blah blah. It has been said over and over. I guarantee, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if Quick loses the rest of his games, he is still between the pipes during round 1. Won't matter. Why? Because Murray and Lombardi are leading this team, and predicting what they are going to do in these situations is pretty easy.
I want to see Bernier as number 1. I want to see him playing his 50+ games next season. But seriously, people need to stop throwing Quick under the bus, predicting he is going to faceplant, and turning him into the next coming of LaBarbera. The man has played well for us. Just because he is not elite, people are running around screaming Bernier. We will be fine with Quick, and he isn't going to be benched for a rookie during the postseason that his likely 40+ wins has earned us. You would have to be deaf and blind to believe Murray and Lombardi would both allow that.
Amen.
It's disgusting that some fans are actually rooting against Quick here out of spite. It's like, you want him to fall flat on his face just so you can say "I told you so."
I like how we are just shrugging off 39 wins with Quick. Let Bernier go back to Manchester and finish out the season, if the Kings need him they will bring him back. I think Bernier will be better than Quick but just cause he is doing well doesn't mean he is better than Quick now. Wasn't LaBarbera goalie of the year in the AHL before?
I'm dumbfounded by anyone believing Quick won't bounce back from his little slump.
If Quick has proven anything this year, it is his resilience. Hell, he does it in nearly every game he plays. Every derision about soft goals needs to be followed up with the fact that when Quick does let it in a soft goal, 9 times out of 10 he shuts the door afterward. The guy battles as hard as anyone I've seen in net for the Kings.
Sure, it is within the realm of possibility that he slumps and slumps harder, but it is far from likely. I have every bit of faith in Quick to provide us goaltending that, if not stellar itself, will allow us to win every game now through the playoffs in which the team is playing well in front of him.
I have far more concerns about the team playing like dumbasses than Quick costing us wins.
I don't think Quick has ever played 70+ games in a "season" before in his life. I think his last interview with Hammond is as close as we are ever going to hear him say that he is exhausted mentally. Again, all I'm saying is that tonight is his biggest game of the season. He's playing a non-playoff team and a team that the Kings play well against. He must win tonight.
QUICK: “I know what you mean there. If there was, I probably wouldn’t admit it. But you’re going day to day, you’re taking one day at a time. Along the way, you are going to feel fatigued, either mentally or physically, but every day you just kind of talk yourself into feeling good. You talk yourself into being up for the game, no matter how you’re feeling. Regardless, those two games off, it was a good rest. Mentally and physically, I feel good. I got three good, solid days of pratice these last three days here, so I feel confident about my game and I feel confident about the team’s game. They’ve been playing well.”
My guess is nearly every player around the league who has been healthy and playing big minutes all season is starting to feel wiped. They are athletes and a long season makes you tired. Its how you respond to being tired that counts, which is why I said resilience. Quick is a warrior and he won't go down without a fight. He may be starting to feel a little tuckered out, but with a guy like Quick, remember he is the goalie who never gives up a shot, any shot, even in practice, you just know his awareness of being tired will only make him redouble his efforts and his focus.
Yes, this is new territory for Quick, as it is for nearly everyone on the team. We have what, 8 guys who have seen playoff action before? The whole team is going through this together, which is why Shelle's point is not a moot one. This season, this is Quick's team to rise or crumble alongside.
I do agee that tonight is a huge game for Quick. Its a character game. Its also a huge game for the whole team, as every one here on out truly is. The difference between us that I am optimistic about it, based on Quick's performance all season and frequent ability to bounce back from one, two or a few bad games, whereas you are dwelling in a world of negative hypotheticals where he sucks and Bernier must be recalled again. Its just hard to tell how much of that opinion is just because you are generally negative, truly believe Quick is done for and won't return to form, or the fascination with and desire to see Bernier in net with the Kings is causing the id in you to secretly hope to see Quick fail. Or, you are arguing for argument's sake, which quite frankly, I understand more than any of the other 3 reasons.
It won't happen regardless. Bernier has his own postseason, and Dean and Murray harp on and on about fighting through it. I mean, just read Murray's interview on what he thought about Luongo and him being left out there for the full 8 goals. Quick is in the net win or lose no matter what this postseason. If he has a problem, then Ersberg is in. Bernier is in Manchester to see the season through. The only way Bernier sees a NHL playoff game this season is if Quick goes down to injury. It is the only way. If he is not worthy of IR, then Bernier is in the AHL.
I don't often disagree with you but I have to on this one. You really think that TM's going to stick with Quick regardless? You do realize that this team is about more than just Quick right? TM needs to put forth the best team out there even if it means, bruising someone's ego. There's no doubt in my mind that IF Quick struggles, JB will be called up to replace him. And as for EE, he's not going to be any factor in the playoffs I'm afraid. TM has no confidence in EE whatsoever. Only way EE gets into a game is if JQ is yanked and EE replaces him for the remainder of the game. Of course, the next game we'll have Bernier starting in net.
That's why I say Bernier will be back shortly, if Quick sh*ts himself in the playoffs you can expect Bernier to take over. In the playoffs you don't have the luxury of riding things out. When things start going south, personnel changes will be made.
Well, you're assuming that Quick will struggle. He may, but I'm hoping he can carry us all the way. But yeah, if he struggles, TM won't hesitate to call up Bernier. It's the right thing to do.
I don't often disagree with you but I have to on this one. You really think that TM's going to stick with Quick regardless? You do realize that this team is about more than just Quick right? TM needs to put forth the best team out there even if it means, bruising someone's ego. There's no doubt in my mind that IF Quick struggles, JB will be called up to replace him. And as for EE, he's not going to be any factor in the playoffs I'm afraid. TM has no confidence in EE whatsoever. Only way EE gets into a game is if JQ is yanked and EE replaces him for the remainder of the game. Of course, the next game we'll have Bernier starting in net.
It's nothing personal, it's all about winning.
But, I think you are projecting your own opinion on Murray. If it were me, Bernier would still be in net, but we are talking about Murray. The one saying every day that Quick is the #1, that we are here because of him, and that this postseason is his. Then there is Lombardi upstairs (who makes the decision, not Murray, to have Bernier on the team in the first place) who is all about paying your dues and finishing the season in Manchester. These guys will never budge from these values, even if you flash their jobs in front of their eyes.
You are hoping for two miracles:
1. Lombardi decides that the Kings need a more talented, yet younger backup, and allows for one of his top two most valuable young goaltenders in the organization to see no playoff time riding the pine.
2. Murray decides that since Bernier won 3 games for him during the regular season as an emergency call-up, he is going to sit his #1 who has won him practically 40 games bringing LA into their first postseason in nearly a decade, for a rookie unproven goaltender who has never had to fight through a NHL slump before.
Now personally, I wouldn't mind seeing that, but to these guys in management, it is not so cut and dry, the game is not entirely played on paper, and there are core values that they are trying to instill in this organization that are at stake. Luckily, Quick more than likely won't faceplant, leaving our speculations up in the air, but I am to stick with it not mattering either way.
Lombardi is not going to allow Bernier to miss the Manchester postseason, and Murray is not going to allow Quick to miss the postseason he earned for him and his club. That is it, bottom line.
Yes, in professional sports, you do what it takes to win and whatever it takes to have the best chance to win, but that is an argument I have been using about Murray for years now. This is just one of those things that he won't break his word about, and he has been telling us so from the beginning. Only way is if injury is involved.
__________________
"It has not been a good day. I lost my glasses early this morning and I had to go buy a pair of 79 dollar reading glasses today. 79 bucks. You can literally get them at Costco, three-for-20." - Darryl Sutter's response to going up 2-0 in the series.
Quick is a warrior and he won't go down without a fight.
... OK, this hero-worship is going into the realm of the ridiculous and tiresome. What has Jon Quick done to show he's any more of a "warrior" than any other goaltender in the NHL or, for that matter, in the Kings' system? In his last 18 games, Quick has a .500 record, and a .905 save percentage. Spin it however you like, but those are not good results. They're the results of a goalie who is getting tired.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM
He may be starting to feel a little tuckered out, but with a guy like Quick, remember he is the goalie who never gives up a shot, any shot, even in practice, you just know his awareness of being tired will only make him redouble his efforts and his focus.
... Quick has never played more than 60 games in a season before this one, at any level. He's played 68 so far this season. Every bit of evidence indicates this man has hit the wall. Of the all the starting goalies who are headed to the Western Conference playoffs, Quick has the worst save percentage and he has the highest workload. I hate to rain on this romance novel you're writing, but those are bad indicators. I'm all for having emotion in the game, but not at the cost of ignoring ALL the facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM
This season, this is Quick's team to rise or crumble alongside.
... I'm going to point out right here that sentimentality does not stop pucks from going into the net, nor does it win games. The Kings' leaders have a job to do, and that is to be as successful as possible. I don't even blame Quick in this; Quick didn't make the decision to start almost every game and wear himself out. The coaching staff did this, and they and the GM have an obligation to account for their mistakes and adjust the roster accordingly. They're paid huge sums of money to maximize the talent in their organization, not to cater to a sentiment of "awww but Quick has LED us here" (he hasn't) or a sentiment of "the Kings OWE it to him" (they don't).
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM
I do agee that tonight is a huge game for Quick. Its a character game. Its also a huge game for the whole team, as every one here on out truly is. The difference between us that I am optimistic about it, based on Quick's performance all season and frequent ability to bounce back from one, two or a few bad games, whereas you are dwelling in a world of negative hypotheticals where he sucks and Bernier must be recalled again. Its just hard to tell how much of that opinion is just because you are generally negative, truly believe Quick is done for and won't return to form, or the fascination with and desire to see Bernier in net with the Kings is causing the id in you to secretly hope to see Quick fail. Or, you are arguing for argument's sake, which quite frankly, I understand more than any of the other 3 reasons.
... This is hyperbole at its worst. No Kings' fan I know is rooting for the Kings to lose so they can see Quick fail; that's ridiculous. If, on the slim chance, Quick can turn back the tide of every negative indicator and re-discover his January form -- I'm 100% positive every true fan of this team will be happy. But the odds are heavily against him. Any one of us can go to a casino roulette table and put all our money on double zero instead of a more reasonable choice like red or black, but would you do it, knowing the odds? I wouldn't, and this organization shouldn't.
Whether YOU want to believe it or not, Bernier has earned the shot as much as Quick has. Bernier has nothing left to prove in Manchester; he's played 113 games with the Monarchs already. Quick played how many? About 33? Bernier is ready to show what he can do in the NHL, and the time is ripe for him -- Quick's been overworked and Ersberg has rotted from inactivity. Bernier has put in the right amount of work at the right level of competition. He is ready.
And I don't see many talking about Bernier supplanting Quick as the number one. It's more of a case where we want Bernier to play until he loses, which he absolutely should, and for him to split the games with Quick and ease the workload a little bit. Again, what's wrong with this? The people who are in favor of Bernier getting sent down and in favor of Quick continuing to play 90% of the time have been using Quick's win total as a mantra all season -- yet Bernier doesn't deserve to get a shot in the NHL despite having an undefeated record? It's very convenient to say that wins matter with Quick, yet they don't with Bernier. Must be nice to play both sides of the fence, I guess?
The basic point is that the Kings have a chance to strengthen their team and take the opportunity to make the playoffs as JUST THAT -- a real opportunity to have some real success. Any Kings' fan who's seen this team for a decade or two (or more) knows full well that the regular season is meaningless if there is no success in the playoffs. To not take the chance at bolstering their goaltending for the sake of a "pecking order" is petty. It's the mentality of a staff that hasn't had success in the playoffs. What makes next season a given, anyway? What if next season is an injury washout? Where does it hurt to give a goalie like Bernier some playoff experience before he's asked to carry part of the load next season? The teams that WIN aren't afraid to make a shakeup when they see one is needed ... even if that shakeup is right before the playoffs start. Winners act. Losers worry too much about "pecking order" and "saving face" to act. It's obvious thus far who the Kings resemble, isn't it?
But, I think you are projecting your own opinion on Murray. If it were me, Bernier would still be in net, but we are talking about Murray. The one saying every day that Quick is the #1, that we are here because of him, and that this postseason is his. Then there is Lombardi upstairs (who makes the decision, not Murray, to have Bernier on the team in the first place) who is all about paying your dues and finishing the season in Manchester. These guys will never budge from these values, even if you flash their jobs in front of their eyes.
You are hoping for two miracles:
1. Lombardi decides that the Kings need a more talented, yet younger backup, and allows for one of his top two most valuable young goaltenders in the organization to see no playoff time riding the pine.
2. Murray decides that since Bernier won 3 games for him during the regular season as an emergency call-up, he is going to sit his #1 who has won him practically 40 games bringing LA into their first postseason in nearly a decade, for a rookie unproven goaltender who has never had to fight through a NHL slump before.
Now personally, I wouldn't mind seeing that, but to these guys in management, it is not so cut and dry, the game is not entirely played on paper, and there are core values that they are trying to instill in this organization that are at stake. Luckily, Quick more than likely won't faceplant, leaving our speculations up in the air, but I am to stick with it not mattering either way.
Lombardi is not going to allow Bernier to miss the Manchester postseason, and Murray is not going to allow Quick to miss the postseason he earned for him and his club. That is it, bottom line.
Yes, in professional sports, you do what it takes to win and whatever it takes to have the best chance to win, but that is an argument I have been using about Murray for years now. This is just one of those things that he won't break his word about, and he has been telling us so from the beginning. Only way is if injury is involved.
We needed 2 hot goaltenders heading into the playoffs and that is why JB got the starts that he did and that is why he was sent down when he did so that JQ can regain his confidence.
As for manchester playoffs, no offense to the manchester based fans but this is all about the kings. Comparing manchester playoffs to kings playoffs is like comparing NIT to NCAA Tournament.
The way I look at it, it's been a long time coming (the playoffs that is) and I can't see either DL and TM doing whatever they can to win the cup. Winning comes first. Everything else can get sorted out in the off season.
I am confident that DL sees tremendous value in having Bernier finish what he started in Manchester and same with Quick in LA. This is the man who all season has said he essentially won't freak out even if the Kings missed the post season. Lombardi is concerned with bringing the best out of both goalies for the long haul of their careers and there is absolutely no evidence to support anything other than his mantra being for each goalie to backstop a playoff team as the defacto #1.
Fortunately or unfortunately, it remains to be seen, DL is a man who clearly has more on his mind than just winning games or going deep in the playoffs this year. He wants to set up these goslies for the best possible development of their careers, and his plan ALL along has been for Bernier to see Manchester through a full year and post season before taking full time NHL duty. He isn't going to change that philosophy because Quick is feeling the effects of a long season, which for him, is part of his development. How else can a goalie learn to pace himself and work through fatigue but to actually get thrown out there and do it?
I am willing to bet that DL still believes next year, and not this year, is when he his team makes a real big push in the post season, like Chicago last year. If he felt otherwise, he would have traded away more prospects and picks at the deadline and gotten bigger impact players than Halpern and Modin. This year is the year the boys who have been getting the job done all year get to swing or fall on their swords. You may disagree, but fact of the matter is that DL is our GM, and he has always been very up front about his mindset. He wasn't even willing to bring up Quick or Bernier last year solely to help win games and only did so because of injuries. Barring injuries, he was willing to ride Labarbera, win or lose, because his concern for his goaltenders was their own personal development and not helping the team squeeze a few more points in a learning year, which like it or not, this season still is.
DL might make the call ups, but it's Murray's hockey club. The GM doesn't decide who plays and who doesn't.
DL decides who is on the roster, period. TM could emplore him to call up a player all he wants, but if DL thinks that player is better off in Manchester, then that's where that player will be. This is Murray's team, but it is Lombardi's franchise.
DL decides who is on the roster, period. TM could emplore him to call up a player all he wants, but if DL thinks that player is better off in Manchester, then that's where that player will be. This is Murray's team, but it is Lombardi's franchise.
So, DL will call up someone that TM disapproves of and end up being a healthy scratch?
I'm sure they have a discussion on who to bring up. It really isn't as cut and dry as you say.
So, DL will call up someone that TM disapproves of and end up being a healthy scratch?
I'm sure they have a discussion on who to bring up. It really isn't as cut and dry as you say.
No, I'm not saying they don't talk. I'm sure they do and I'm sure Murray does weigh in on decisions. I am saying that DL's decision is final, TM's is not.
Proof is in a quote by Murray from after the Vancouver or Nashville game, I forget which. Essentially Murray said about the decision to keep or send Bernier down something to the effect of 'I'm staying out of it and leave it up to management'. I'll look for the exact quote when I get home.
DL decides who is on the roster, period. TM could emplore him to call up a player all he wants, but if DL thinks that player is better off in Manchester, then that's where that player will be. This is Murray's team, but it is Lombardi's franchise.
... A head coach who doesn't have significant input on the roster he has on his bench isn't really a head coach at all; he would be a figurehead. I don't believe that Lombardi hired Murray to be a figurehead, nor do I believe Murray would take and keep the job if that were the case. If both the GM and the head coach don't have mutual agreement on the on-ice product, then this franchise is in far worse shape than I thought.
There's some really well thought-out discussion here. Kudos. I'm genuinely torn on the issue.
But I want to bring up Bernier's last game. He let in 3, including a softy, maybe 2 depending on how you look at it. Quick would have gotten ripped to shreds for that here, so honest question--what's the difference in all your eyes? Because to me, the only difference was the team around him giving him goal support. The Kings scored more goals vs. the Canucks than they had in the previous 4 games combined....
I know it's a different can of worms because the goalie can only keep them out, but unless you count the Colorado games (which we should, but just trying to make a point), we hadn't scored more than 2 goals in a game since March 10th.
There's some really well thought-out discussion here. Kudos. I'm genuinely torn on the issue.
But I want to bring up Bernier's last game. He let in 3, including a softy, maybe 2 depending on how you look at it. Quick would have gotten ripped to shreds for that here, so honest question--what's the difference in all your eyes? Because to me, the only difference was the team around him giving him goal support. The Kings scored more goals vs. the Canucks than they had in the previous 4 games combined....
I know it's a different can of worms because the goalie can only keep them out, but unless you count the Colorado games (which we should, but just trying to make a point), we hadn't scored more than 2 goals in a game since March 10th.
Bernier's game is cleaner.
As for letting in a soft goal, it basically comes down to us already being exposed to Quick giving up his share of soft goals whereas, with Bernier, it's still relative new. It's a matter of time that those who blame Quick will eventually blame Bernier once he becomes our regular goaltender.
Its just hard to tell how much of that opinion is just because you are generally negative, truly believe Quick is done for and won't return to form, or the fascination with and desire to see Bernier in net with the Kings is causing the id in you to secretly hope to see Quick fail. Or, you are arguing for argument's sake, which quite frankly, I understand more than any of the other 3 reasons.
It's a little bit of worry that Quick will not regain his January form, the fact that Bernier has been playing great since the Olympic break (while Quick has struggled) and partly arguing for argument's sake. At this stage of the season, Bernier > Quick.
I think that Craig Anderson is suffering the same problem in Colorado, he has seen more rubber than anyone in the NHL this season. Too bad Colorado doesn't have Bernier avaialble to give him a rest. Colorado doesn't have very easy schedule to close the season either.
Manchester seems to have no problem winning with any goalie right now and they have already clinched a playoff spot. Bernier isn't really needed until the AHL playoffs start, what better way for Bernier to get prepared for the AHL playoffs than to split time with Quick in LA?
Also, I definitely don't want to see Quick fail at this stage of the season. I'm not one who thinks this season is only about next season. Quick regaining his January form could get the Kings to the conference finals and maybe even the Stanley Cup finals.
... A head coach who doesn't have significant input on the roster he has on his bench isn't really a head coach at all; he would be a figurehead. I don't believe that Lombardi hired Murray to be a figurehead, nor do I believe Murray would take and keep the job if that were the case. If both the GM and the head coach don't have mutual agreement on the on-ice product, then this franchise is in far worse shape than I thought.
Fine, I don't disagree. Once again, I'm just pointing out the FACT (as in, there is no disputing or denying it) that DL has final say on call-ups and the roster, not TM. Period. There really is no argument to be had. DL signs off on roster moves, Murray does not. I don't know if they agree or disagree with eachother, only that when push comes to shove,its DL's decision to make. Why are you fighting this when there is nothing to argue on this issue?
There's some really well thought-out discussion here. Kudos. I'm genuinely torn on the issue.
But I want to bring up Bernier's last game. He let in 3, including a softy, maybe 2 depending on how you look at it. Quick would have gotten ripped to shreds for that here, so honest question--what's the difference in all your eyes? Because to me, the only difference was the team around him giving him goal support. The Kings scored more goals vs. the Canucks than they had in the previous 4 games combined....
I know it's a different can of worms because the goalie can only keep them out, but unless you count the Colorado games (which we should, but just trying to make a point), we hadn't scored more than 2 goals in a game since March 10th.
Well, Bernier's soft goal came when the Kings were up 5-1. A lot of Quick's softies have either tied the game or given the other team a lead.
No way was the third goal "soft", it was deflected.
Fine, I don't disagree. Once again, I'm just pointing out the FACT (as in, there is no disputing or denying it) that DL has final say on call-ups and the roster, not TM. Period. There really is no argument to be had. DL signs off on roster moves, Murray does not. I don't know if they agree or disagree with eachother, only that when push comes to shove,its DL's decision to make. Why are you fighting this when there is nothing to argue on this issue?
