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Old
04-02-2010, 10:43 PM
  #26
ForsbergIsOdin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 View Post
I've said this before, and heres my plan:

1. Keep JVR, Giroux, Gagne, Pronger, Betts, Laperriere and Carcillo.
2. Trade for Knuble.
3. Trade everyone else for picks.
4. Sign Peter Forsberg.

Even if we don't win I'll love the team.

Yes.

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Old
04-02-2010, 10:44 PM
  #27
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by JCannon18 View Post
stop letting goalies get injured and the cup is ours
This is hilarious, but also kind of true. In reality, we had two number one goalies this year and one promising prospect and all three got injured. So it's not like we didn't get a goalie this year.

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Originally Posted by mm6492 View Post
Trade Briere
Trade Hartnell

Sign 3rd line center
Acquire goalie
Hope 1st line winger plays for league minimum
Much easier said then done. Nobody is going to want Briere, only first line wingers you'll find for league minimum are guys on entry level contracts (which basically means you won't find one unless it's from your organization), and although Hartnell isn't impossible to trade he's not exactly easy.

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Old
04-02-2010, 10:44 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Honestly, I don't agree with your post at all, but I really don't feel like arguing over it.

But by saying we need a first line winger, do you mean left or right winger? On LW we have Gagne, Leino, and JVR. On the RW we have Giroux and Hartnell. Our wingers could be better, granted, but it's not bad. It just looks bad because two of our five wingers are young and developing. That and Hartnell is having a down year while Giroux, while still developing, is also getting accustomed to a RW spot due to us not having a third line center.
Giroux is a center, and plays much better at center than he does on the wing.

JVR should become a 1st line LW, but he certainly isn't there yet. Gagne when ehalthy can be a 1st line LW, but it's been 4 years now since he's played like a true 1st liner.

Hartnell and Briere are 2nd line players.

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Old
04-02-2010, 10:46 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Much easier said then done. Nobody is going to want Briere, only first line wingers you'll find for league minimum are guys on entry level contracts (which basically means you won't find one unless it's from your organization), and although Hartnell isn't impossible to trade he's not exactly easy.
I wasn't really being serious

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Old
04-02-2010, 10:48 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Start with Holmgren. Make everyone on this team available; although Carter, JVR and Pronger would take an incredible offer to get.
Now, to be realistic...I agree with firing Holmgren, but nobody is going to be able to dump all of the bad contracts and get value for the rest of the roster.

Briere is probably impossible to move. That's one of the reasons I'm OK with moving Giroux for a young goalie with franchise type potential. If they're stuck with Briere, might as well play him at center with Gagne and at least get max value out of his contract.

I could see Hartnell having some value. There's no way I trade Carter, Richards or JvR unless the return is ridiculous.

Pronger I'd be willing to quietly shop, just because of the cap hit staying on the books when he retires in 4 years. Timonen is the defenseman I would be trying to either trade or bribe to retire to go home and play with Kapanen.

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Old
04-02-2010, 10:48 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Giroux is a center, and plays much better at center than he does on the wing.

JVR should become a 1st line LW, but he certainly isn't there yet. Gagne when ehalthy can be a 1st line LW, but it's been 4 years now since he's played like a true 1st liner.

Hartnell and Briere are 2nd line players.
I'm not a Gagne fan, but he played like a 1st liner just last season.

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Old
04-02-2010, 10:51 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Giroux is a center, and plays much better at center than he does on the wing.

JVR should become a 1st line LW, but he certainly isn't there yet. Gagne when ehalthy can be a 1st line LW, but it's been 4 years now since he's played like a true 1st liner.

Hartnell and Briere are 2nd line players.
Gagne:

08-09: 74 points in 79 games with 34 goals
09-10: 39 points in 53 games with 17 goals

I'd say that's first line material. He's proven that, when healthy, he's productive. That's really the only knock against him, that he isn't always healthy.

JVR isn't "there yet" because he's a rookie.

Doesn't matter whether you think Giroux is better at center or not because he'll have to get used to RW if he wants to stay on this team. He's third in center depth behind Richards and Carter with Briere right behind him.

So, like I said, we have JVR, Leino, Giroux, Hartnell, and Briere to fill four top six winger spots. We're fine there. The two biggest problems with it this year is that a few of those guys are young and developing and that some of those guys are having bad years.

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Old
04-02-2010, 10:53 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Gagne:

08-09: 74 points in 79 games with 34 goals
09-10: 39 points in 53 games with 17 goals

I'd say that's first line material. He's proven that, when healthy, he's productive. That's really the only knock against him, that he isn't always healthy.

JVR isn't "there yet" because he's a rookie.

Doesn't matter whether you think Giroux is better at center or not because he'll have to get used to RW if he wants to stay on this team. He's third in center depth behind Richards and Carter with Briere right behind him.

So, like I said, we have JVR, Leino, Giroux, Hartnell, and Briere to fill four top six winger spots. We're fine there. The two biggest problems with it this year is that a few of those guys are young and developing and that some of those guys are having bad years.
Honestly, I think that they have to consider, at least if Briere, Carter and Richards are all back, to make Richards the "third line" center and keep Briere with skilled guys to get the most bang for the buck

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Old
04-02-2010, 11:03 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
I think we're caught in that in-between, but because of the NHL's parity, that's not far away from being a real contender. You make 3 good points regarding our needs. Looking back on this season, how much would a true #1 goalie help us? A lot. Honestly, with the cluster**** that our goalie situation is, it's no wonder our year has gone to ****. Is that the only problem? Absolutely not. But I think that's why you use a guy like Giroux to get one. It's not a guarantee, but it's a step in the right direction.
It's not anyone's fault the goaltending got hurt, but there were a lot of people who knew the team would be in deep **** if Brian Boucher somehow ended up as the starting goaltender. Better options were available.

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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
As to your 3rd line center. Also something we need pretty badly, but not impossible to obtain. There are a few guys on the FA market this summer who would work out, plus it's possible that if you trade a guy like Briere or Hartnell, you could get one in return. That leaves us with a 1st line wing. If we made a few trades, I'd sacrifice 1 bonafide top-line scorer for scoring depth. I like JVR and Richards together, and from what we've seen, JVR's going to get better. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but we've also got a guy who can score 40+ in Jeff Carter, so I'm not incredibly worried.
They coulda just done that for this season and chose not to. Not only did they choose not to, but the media tried to pawn off Ian Laperriere as a 3rd line center.

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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
I'm extremely mad about how this season's gone down. To me, it's worse than 06-07, and I'm not very confident in our front office as of now. One way or another, though, there are gonna be changes this summer. Interested to see what goes down.
It's not so much that as it is the "all-in, we're goin' for it this year!!!1!" just doesn't work anymore. The Flyers have been a step or two behind since the lockout was over, insistent that this can be done the same ways they've been trying to get it done.

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Old
04-02-2010, 11:05 PM
  #35
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Briere, Hartnell, and Timonen (who i wouldnt move anyway) most likely arent going anywhere because of their clauses.

The most realistic trading piece this team has is Carter because moving him will get you a good return AND clear cap space (giroux and JVR wouldnt).

Trading a 40 goal scorer isnt ideal but its the Flyers most realistic option. This team doesnt lack talent, it lacks chemistry. They need to bring in a player who can make guys like Briere and Hartnell more productive (like how pronger has), since we are pretty much stuck with them.

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Old
04-02-2010, 11:07 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Mota View Post
Briere, Hartnell, and Timonen (who i wouldnt move anyway) most likely arent going anywhere because of their clauses.

The most realistic trading piece this team has is Carter because moving him will get you a good return AND clear cap space (giroux and JVR wouldnt).

Trading a 40 goal scorer isnt ideal but its the Flyers most realistic option. This team doesnt lack talent, it lacks chemistry. They need to bring in a player who can make guys like Briere and Hartnell more productive, since we are pretty much stuck with them.
They already have a guy that can make Briere productive-Gagne.

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Old
04-02-2010, 11:08 PM
  #37
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The fact that we got a new coach after like 6 weeks of games didn't help us at all. Homer really fouled up there. Not getting a goalie at the deadline really hurt us.

If we got Lavi during the first couple opening weeks of the season we would of made out okay.

Players who are safe.
Richards, Carter, Pronger, and I'll say JVR.

If this team let Kimmo go, we better get something big back in return.

I'd love to get Hartnell for Clowe or something. But will SJ take Hartnell? Probably not.

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Old
04-02-2010, 11:08 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by JSaq View Post
Honestly, I think that they have to consider, at least if Briere, Carter and Richards are all back, to make Richards the "third line" center and keep Briere with skilled guys to get the most bang for the buck
If the roster next year is similar to the one this year in that we have too many top six players and that we have no true third line center then, yeah, they should have to go with what you said. Put Richards as the third line center. Ideally though we want to move either Briere or Carle and possibly Hartnell and find a true third line center though.

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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
It's not anyone's fault the goaltending got hurt, but there were a lot of people who knew the team would be in deep **** if Brian Boucher somehow ended up as the starting goaltender. Better options were available.
In all fairness, Leighton became our number one. Regardless of whether or not he actually has the skills to be a true number one goalie he was a number one goalie in his short time with us. Then he got injured too.

Then Backlund got injured. Holmgren didn't have a good backup plan going into the season, true, but he found one. Hell, it's entirely possible that he could have found another one in Backlund had he not get injured.

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Old
04-02-2010, 11:14 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
If the roster next year is similar to the one this year in that we have too many top six players and that we have no true third line center then, yeah, they should have to go with what you said. Put Richards as the third line center. Ideally though we want to move either Briere or Carle and possibly Hartnell and find a true third line center though.
Yeah, but I think Briere's impossible to move. I just can't see anyone taking on the actual money, the cap hit, the injury history, the one way play and the NMC unless they're handing you back an even worse contract

Hartnell is young enough to be moveable, IMO. He's only 27 or 28, got good size, a nasty streak and has been a pretty consistent 20 goal scorer. Yes, he is overpaid, and dumb, but there's good in the mix, and a lot of his issues may well be due to his off ice/personal matters.

I'd be trying like Hell to move Carle to get a 1st rounder in this year's draft. I think that he's probably never going to have higher trade value, and while he's a nice 4th defenseman, his performance, whether he benefitted from Pronger or not, is going to make people think he's a number 2 defenseman.

My first goal would be getting a very promising young goalie.

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Old
04-02-2010, 11:16 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
The fact that we got a new coach after like 6 weeks of games didn't help us at all. Homer really fouled up there. Not getting a goalie at the deadline really hurt us.

If we got Lavi during the first couple opening weeks of the season we would of made out okay.

Players who are safe.
Richards, Carter, Pronger, and I'll say JVR.

If this team let Kimmo go, we better get something big back in return.

I'd love to get Hartnell for Clowe or something. But will SJ take Hartnell? Probably not.
If Timonen goes, you get a HUGE value: $6.5mm of cap space.

Hartnell has value, but he's not going to get you Clowe....unless the Sharks lose in round one and they get blown up themselves.

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04-02-2010, 11:25 PM
  #41
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I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire or anything. But if Hartnell really did have martial problems this year, perhaps he will want to get out of Philadelphia asap. Get the hell away from the ex.

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Old
04-02-2010, 11:29 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire or anything. But if Hartnell really did have martial problems this year, perhaps he will want to get out of Philadelphia asap. Get the hell away from the ex.
That would make it easier to get him to waive his NTC

I wouldn't have an issue with Hartnell at all if he was just working as hard as he has in the past two years. The two biggest things I hate in a hockey player are laziness and stupid. If a guy works his ass off, I can live with the latter.

Too many times this year, Hartnell was a passenger.

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Old
04-02-2010, 11:36 PM
  #43
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Yeah, but I think Briere's impossible to move. I just can't see anyone taking on the actual money, the cap hit, the injury history, the one way play and the NMC unless they're handing you back an even worse contract

Hartnell is young enough to be moveable, IMO. He's only 27 or 28, got good size, a nasty streak and has been a pretty consistent 20 goal scorer. Yes, he is overpaid, and dumb, but there's good in the mix, and a lot of his issues may well be due to his off ice/personal matters.

I'd be trying like Hell to move Carle to get a 1st rounder in this year's draft. I think that he's probably never going to have higher trade value, and while he's a nice 4th defenseman, his performance, whether he benefitted from Pronger or not, is going to make people think he's a number 2 defenseman.

My first goal would be getting a very promising young goalie.
It totally agree Briere is probably impossible to move. That's why I said ideally. Still, you never know I guess. I didn't think Gomez would ever get moved.

If the team weren't in the position(s) that it were in then I'd be fine with keeping Hartnell and seeing how he does next year, but as it is I'd be fine getting rid of him.

Carle definitely has to go. Whether it be for pick(s) or roster player(s). He has the best contract of the three and his cap hit is large enough to be big for us if we got rid of it. He's also arguably the most expendable guy on the team.

Depends by what you mean by "very promising young goalie". Like whether you mean a prospect like Schneider or an established guy who's stuck in a bad goalie situation (for them) like Harding or Halak/Price. I think our prospect pool is fine as is, in fact I think it's terrific when it comes to goalies (especially if we get Scrivens and/or Brobrovsky), but we really need to dump Boosh and find someone to the number one for next year with Leighton either as the backup or as the fall-back backup.

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I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire or anything. But if Hartnell really did have martial problems this year, perhaps he will want to get out of Philadelphia asap. Get the hell away from the ex.
My concern with that is that it could mess up the locker room. He's well-liked here and the locker room has already taken a lot of hits over the past few years. Most notably Lupul and Upshall.

I mean, a lot of people on here already complain about too much roster turnover.

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Old
04-02-2010, 11:42 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
It totally agree Briere is probably impossible to move. That's why I said ideally. Still, you never know I guess. I didn't think Gomez would ever get moved.

If the team weren't in the position(s) that it were in then I'd be fine with keeping Hartnell and seeing how he does next year, but as it is I'd be fine getting rid of him.

Carle definitely has to go. Whether it be for pick(s) or roster player(s). He has the best contract of the three and his cap hit is large enough to be big for us if we got rid of it. He's also arguably the most expendable guy on the team.

Depends by what you mean by "very promising young goalie". Like whether you mean a prospect like Schneider or an established guy who's stuck in a bad goalie situation (for them) like Harding or Halak/Price. I think our prospect pool is fine as is, in fact I think it's terrific when it comes to goalies (especially if we get Scrivens and/or Brobrovsky), but we really need to dump Boosh and find someone to the number one for next year with Leighton either as the backup or as the fall-back backup.

Oh, I'd absolutely TRY to deal Briere's contract

By promising young goalie, I mean a guy who can step in as the starter within the next couple of years, at the latest, and be at least an above average starter in goal.

There are a lot of prospects with talent, but most of what I've read has them a few years away. I'm also fine with adding a Price or whomever, and still building a pool of good systemic depth in goal.

I wouldn't just grab a Price or Harding(who I probably wouldn't go after anyhow-scared of McCrossin and hip injuries) and ignore the system.

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04-02-2010, 11:45 PM
  #45
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I'm not trying to start anything - just to share a bit of info (might not even be new info for you but anyway ...)

On one of our crappy post game shows on TV, L'Antichambre, Bob Hartley (Cup winner coach with the Avs) said that he recently spoke with Flyers player(s) in Ottawa and that they told him that goalie problems are actually secondary. The main problem is in the room - he said "this is Mike Richards team and Pronger does not fit in"

Feel free to delete this if irrelevant.

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Old
04-02-2010, 11:51 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
I'm not trying to start anything - just to share a bit of info (might not even be new info for you but anyway ...)

On one of our crappy post game shows on TV, L'Antichambre, Bob Hartley (Cup winner coach with the Avs) said that he recently spoke with Flyers player(s) in Ottawa and that they told him that goalie problems are actually secondary. The main problem is in the room - he said "this is Mike Richards team and Pronger does not fit in"

Feel free to delete this if irrelevant.
This is not the first time that that particular rumor has surfaced.

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Old
04-03-2010, 12:01 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
I'm not trying to start anything - just to share a bit of info (might not even be new info for you but anyway ...)

On one of our crappy post game shows on TV, L'Antichambre, Bob Hartley (Cup winner coach with the Avs) said that he recently spoke with Flyers player(s) in Ottawa and that they told him that goalie problems are actually secondary. The main problem is in the room - he said "this is Mike Richards team and Pronger does not fit in"

Feel free to delete this if irrelevant.
We have heard countless "Older guys" vs "Younger guys" arguments.

Personally, I think there is something going on in there. Thats just me though.

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Old
04-03-2010, 12:04 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
We have heard countless "Older guys" vs "Younger guys" arguments.

Personally, I think there is something going on in there. Thats just me though.
It does reek of something along those lines...Guess we'll find out if Pronger demands a trade in June and we hear rumors that he's banging Amy Fadool.

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04-03-2010, 12:48 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by mm6492 View Post
If we could move Briere, I would start to kind of sort of a little bit.....like Homer again
If he manages to trade Briere for anything he'd be back in my good graces (for a year anyway). Assuming he doesn't mangle the rest of the roster.

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Step 1- Fire Homer
Step 2- Get a goalie
Step 3- profit
Great plan

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Old
04-03-2010, 12:56 AM
  #50
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I say use the rest of the cap space to hire a hitman to take out Briere.

Problem solved?

Not quite... but it's a step.

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