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Ok, if not AO, how about a MALKIN trade?

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05-05-2004, 05:32 AM
  #1
stardog
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Ok, if not AO, how about a MALKIN trade?

Pretty simple question.

I don't think fans of either team would say an enthusiastic "YES" to this one but I am more trying to gauge the value of Malkin after reading the overwhelming majority say that they would not give up Ovechkin to get Spezza.

So take out AO's name, and put in Malkin's.

Would this be a fair trade? Or would you make this trade (value wise alone) from either teams standpoint.

E. Malkin
for
J. Spezza

I would make it from a Pens standpoint as i think Spezza will be the better of the two in the long run (though I know I am going to hear about the game 7 benching, just as I am going to here about Malkin never having played in the NHL).

I also think the trade favors the Pens, but slightly. Which means, of course, that while I think Spezza will be the better player in the long run, I only think he will be better SLIGHTLY, yet still enough to warrant me willing to deal for him.

On another note which is slightly off topic but dealing with trades and this forum, I find it funny that we talk in terms of firsthand speak. Such as "I accept your offer", or "what would your team give me for so and so" as if we actually have anything to do with the trades themselves. I do it all the time as well so I am not ripping on anyone, just an observation, like I said.
We can wave the magic wand and make these deals happen (though I understand alot of them are for fantasy purposes as well).

Anyways, back to the topic. If you feel this deal is lopsided for either team, feel free to add what you think in order to make it more accurate. Like I said, I am just trying to get the general feeling on Malkin's value, which I feel is inflated on the Pens board (which isn't a slam against them, because most of the boards do it with thier best prospects..., right BIG TRAIN?).

So tell me who the deal favors, or if you would do it from either teams standpoint, or what needs to be added to make it fair (or tell me all three). I would like to try to keep this strictly value wise, ie: player vs. player and not take into account mitigating circumstances if at all possible.

In fact, we can expand this and tell me what your team (not just the Sens)would, or could give up to land the Pens pick.

Thanks


Last edited by stardog: 05-05-2004 at 05:40 AM.
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05-05-2004, 06:46 AM
  #2
Drake1588
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Very close, I think. Difficult one to gauge. Front and center is the fact that Ottawa needs to win within a relatively short window, and probably does not want to be making trades involving its more talented group of players that make them younger. Many believe, probably with good reason, that Spezza will be a 70/80-point center as early as next season. Certainly two. Malkin may require more time to reach that level (I am presuming that he will), even if he does come over right away.

I don't think I would do it if I were Ottawa. It's probably 50/50 if I'm Pittsburgh, but the Senators would probably balk.

I see Pittsburgh trying to determine which one will turn out to be the better player of the two, and I think that they will be quite close in time; while I see Ottawa leaning towards which one will make them a better team in the somewhat shorter term. The teams differ in the amount of patience they can afford at this time.

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05-05-2004, 09:24 AM
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s7ark
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Hey if Malkin is being offered up I suspect the Oilers would tender an offer...

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05-05-2004, 09:29 AM
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jhopspensfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
Hey if Malkin is being offered up I suspect the Oilers would tender an offer...
O.K. We'll take Hemsky, Brewer and Edmonton's first this year...

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05-05-2004, 09:37 AM
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Darcy Wakaluk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhopspensfan
O.K. We'll take Hemsky, Brewer and Edmonton's first this year...
Kevin Lowe would jump all over that in a second.

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05-05-2004, 09:47 AM
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s7ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhopspensfan
O.K. We'll take Hemsky, Brewer and Edmonton's first this year...

Hmm Brewer might be a stretch as we don't have anyone else that can play to his level, how about Jason Smith and a 2nd instead?

So Hemsky, Smith 1st(14th), 2nd for Malkin. I might do that... But I am very high on Malkin and I am no GM....

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05-05-2004, 10:14 AM
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Not close on the Spezza deal largely for the same reasons as why it is a no for me on the AO deal but, on the Pens offering Malkin for other assets, I reckon the Oilers offer would be great for both teams as far as value goes.

But, I doubt the Oilers would do it in the end. I also wonder what the Pens would think about adding any veterans to their team at this point. I think it would be a year or two pre mature and by then Smith will be of less value to them. Maybe a situation where they trade Smith right off for another solid young asset would work.

For Smith they could do right well or well enough to add another young prospect making the deal Hemsky, (upside and not bad as is) a solid prospect or pick, a first rounder that still has a shot at being for a talented player in this draft and a second could work.


My true problem is that I can't think of a situation that the Kings could put together that works for them and the Pens to get a shot at Malking.

Here is one for you to throw out.


Tambellini, Zizka and our first this year (11th) for Zizka.

Tambellini is a grand LW talent. Zizka is about twice as good as Strbak and younger and played really well after his first 7 games with the Kings this year establishing his self as a solid two way defencemen on the rise. The 11th is still well within the talent line on this years draft.

The Kings get the number one center that they so desperately need.

If Zizka isn't the lad you would want we have Rome or Petiot but with either of them we would have to add another pick, likely a mid rounder.


See, it works value wise but not truly well for the Pens, not bad, but I don't know if it is enough to make them go "YES"!

I know, look at it is the "future considerations" bit on the Anshankov deal!

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05-05-2004, 11:10 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy1
Not close on the Spezza deal largely for the same reasons as why it is a no for me on the AO deal but, on the Pens offering Malkin for other assets, I reckon the Oilers offer would be great for both teams as far as value goes.

But, I doubt the Oilers would do it in the end. I also wonder what the Pens would think about adding any veterans to their team at this point. I think it would be a year or two pre mature and by then Smith will be of less value to them. Maybe a situation where they trade Smith right off for another solid young asset would work.

For Smith they could do right well or well enough to add another young prospect making the deal Hemsky, (upside and not bad as is) a solid prospect or pick, a first rounder that still has a shot at being for a talented player in this draft and a second could work.


My true problem is that I can't think of a situation that the Kings could put together that works for them and the Pens to get a shot at Malking.

Here is one for you to throw out.


Tambellini, Zizka and our first this year (11th) for Zizka.

Tambellini is a grand LW talent. Zizka is about twice as good as Strbak and younger and played really well after his first 7 games with the Kings this year establishing his self as a solid two way defencemen on the rise. The 11th is still well within the talent line on this years draft.

The Kings get the number one center that they so desperately need.

If Zizka isn't the lad you would want we have Rome or Petiot but with either of them we would have to add another pick, likely a mid rounder.


See, it works value wise but not truly well for the Pens, not bad, but I don't know if it is enough to make them go "YES"!

I know, look at it is the "future considerations" bit on the Anshankov deal!
Terrible deal. It'll end up being 3 B- grade prospects for an A-. Keep in mind that Pens are already *loaded* with prospects at this level, and, if anything, we'd be interested in trading quantity for quality.

I can't imagine anything the Kings could offer short of Frolov that the Pens would be interested in.

S L

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05-05-2004, 11:51 AM
  #9
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Spezza for Malkin makes sense in some ways... in others no.



Mario needs to groom his superstar for that day far off in the future where he actually gets a new Rink. (as much as I hate the Pens... I hope something gets done)

He can't play forever.

Though... I think the Pens would have to add a little more to bring Spezza. At least in the terms of picks. Or at least shuffle some more things up, because one for one is sometimes harder to get done then bigger deals.

Maybe a 3rd and the 1st for Spezza and a 4th.

Dunno.

If I was the GM for Ottawa, I'd be scared to pull that trigger.

Giving away someone who you took as a clear #1 for someone who's #2 would be difficult to rationalize.

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05-05-2004, 12:25 PM
  #10
punchy1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Latin
Terrible deal. It'll end up being 3 B- grade prospects for an A-. Keep in mind that Pens are already *loaded* with prospects at this level, and, if anything, we'd be interested in trading quantity for quality.

I can't imagine anything the Kings could offer short of Frolov that the Pens would be interested in.

S L

Which is what I said to start and why I said it. Cheers for showing me right mate, always nice to hear.

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05-05-2004, 12:42 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera
Spezza for Malkin makes sense in some ways... in others no.



Mario needs to groom his superstar for that day far off in the future where he actually gets a new Rink. (as much as I hate the Pens... I hope something gets done)

He can't play forever.

Though... I think the Pens would have to add a little more to bring Spezza. At least in the terms of picks. Or at least shuffle some more things up, because one for one is sometimes harder to get done then bigger deals.

Maybe a 3rd and the 1st for Spezza and a 4th.

Dunno.

If I was the GM for Ottawa, I'd be scared to pull that trigger.

Giving away someone who you took as a clear #1 for someone who's #2 would be difficult to rationalize.
Malkin is a clear #1 in any draft that doesn't include a guy named Ovechkin. I dont think I would pull the trigger from the pens side. Malkin looks too promising for this team.

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05-05-2004, 01:21 PM
  #12
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If spezza is so valuable then he should be traded for only one teams entire draft picks for the next 100 years >>> Would that be fair compensation for ottawa to receive for the greatest player ever to lace up a pair of skates ????? Boy do you all over rate him good player but will NEVER BE A FRANCHISE PLAYER >>>>>

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05-05-2004, 02:18 PM
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Jeff Goldblum
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You don't make any sense>>> People are not saying that Spezza is worth more than the 2nd overall>>>

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05-05-2004, 05:08 PM
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Big McLargehuge
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Spezza is so damned overrated it's not even funny.

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05-06-2004, 03:44 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by Pens4ever
You don't make any sense>>> People are not saying that Spezza is worth more than the 2nd overall>>>
READ ALL THE TRADE THREADS regarding him

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05-06-2004, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
Hmm Brewer might be a stretch as we don't have anyone else that can play to his level, how about Jason Smith and a 2nd instead?

So Hemsky, Smith 1st(14th), 2nd for Malkin. I might do that... But I am very high on Malkin and I am no GM....
Man, if the Oilers are going to trade up into the unrealistic, they might as well go for Olesz. I'm not convinced Malkin's more than marginally better than him, and he probably wouldn't cost near that much.

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