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Mapletoft for Rita proposal

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05-04-2004, 04:18 PM
  #1
CREW99AW
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Mapletoft for Rita proposal

There was an article on SLAM about Rita possibly leaving the Oilers because they've had other prospects pass him on the depth chart.
Next season both Mapletoft and Rita will be out of options.The NYI and Oilers won't be able to demote them without exposing them on waivers.

Mapletoft for Rita?
Below are talent analysis' taken from the hf team pages.I've posted the same proposal on the Isles board.Feel free to come over and give feedback.

Rita is a gritty winger with speed and size, and has a plus shot. He is a pretty solid specimen, and can grind it out in the corners with the big men.Rita uses his speed to good advantage on the forecheck, and can make a play at full speed. He does not use his size as a weapon on offense enough, but that will come with experience.
2001-02 Hamilton: 76games 25g 17a
2001-02 Edmonton: 1games 0g 0a
2002-03 Hamilton: 64games 21g 27a
2002-03 Edmonton: 12games 3g 1a
2003-04 Toronto: 64games 17g 24a


Mapletoft is an excellent puck handler with intelligent hockey sense, a very crafty pivot who is smart around the net. He uses his wingers effectively and gives soft passes to teammates. He is very dangerous in low slot and has a great snap shot with a quick release. Also, Justin posseses great exceleration and cycles puck down low with poise. He is a solid two way player. *playoffs
2001-02: AHL 80games 13g 20a
2001-02 Bridgeport*: 20games 7g 10a
2002-03 Bridgeport: 63games 13g 26a
2002-03 Islanders:11games 2g 2a
2002-03 Bridgeport*:7games 1g 2a
2003-04 Bridgeport:36games 10g 13a

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05-04-2004, 04:38 PM
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Jamie
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I really don't think this is something that would interest the Oilers. They've kept Rita around a while now, and I doubt they'd deal him or Mapletoft who wouldn't crack their lineup either. I don't see them dealing Rita for a player in a similar situation as I'm sure they'd rather just keep Rita as he does have some scoring potential.

On the other hand, if Lowe could get a guy that had potential but wasn't NHL ready and he could play on his AHL team, I think that's a whole other story. If the Oilers don't give Rita a chance to play next year, I see no reason why they'd give that opportunity to Mapletoft instead.

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05-04-2004, 04:44 PM
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Cloned
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"He is a solid two-way player"

This phrase just brings out so many of the topics discussed widely on this board:
MacT's coaching
Rita's development/playing style
Management's handling of Rita
Hemsky's problems with MacT
Drafting BPA vs. drafting sure-thing two-way players

So if Mapletoft is as advertised and he came over, he would likely be played by MacT more than Rita will. One could argue that Mapletoft would be more valuable to the Oilers than Rita from an on-ice performance perspective, just due to the fact that he will get played while Rita will not. One could also argue the opposite from an asset perspective, because I think at this point Rita still has more value than Mapletoft, whether it be trade value or scoring talent.

But I have not given up on Rita yet, and hopefully management hasn't either.


Last edited by Cloned: 05-04-2004 at 05:54 PM.
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05-04-2004, 05:26 PM
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I definitely wouldn't make this deal. Mapletoft definitely wouldn't crack the lineup ahead of Nedved, Stoll, Reasoner, Horcoff or York. His AHL stats aren't even really any better than Mike Bishai's who management is already fairly high on. I'm guessing we'd lose him on waivers if we tried to send him down to the AHL as well.. The deal really doesn't make sense from the Oilers perspective and I personally feel that Rita's potential upside exceeds that of Mapletoft's. It might work in a larger package deal but 1for1 doesn't do it for me. The Oilers are weak down the middle in terms of top-two line talent, not checking line players.


Last edited by Cerebral: 05-04-2004 at 05:41 PM.
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05-04-2004, 05:43 PM
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Seachd
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I'm not sure I'd give up Rita for Mapletoft. A guy I'd be a little more interested is Weinhandl, but I'm not sure if the Islanders would let him go.

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05-04-2004, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd
I'm not sure I'd give up Rita for Mapletoft. A guy I'd be a little more interested is Weinhandl, but I'm not sure if the Islanders would let him go.
Yep, I'd be more interested in Weinhandl or even Tunik.. I don't think the Isles are looking to move either though.

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05-04-2004, 05:57 PM
  #7
Larry Fisher
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I agree...

Although they have similar track records I think the description of Mapletoft is a little off. They describe his as an offensively gifted player and I think he is a slower version of our own Jarret Stoll and we have too many players of that mold in our system.

Rita is better offensively and at one time was considered a potential game-breaker, whether that phrase could still be attached to Jani is up in the air but a 1 for 1 swap would still favor the Isles and would hurt our needs for a young top line sniper.

Rita and 2nd for Kvasha and 5th would interest me a lot more!!!

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05-04-2004, 06:05 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salostyle
Although they have similar track records I think the description of Mapletoft is a little off. They describe his as an offensively gifted player and I think he is a slower version of our own Jarret Stoll and we have too many players of that mold in our system.

Rita is better offensively and at one time was considered a potential game-breaker, whether that phrase could still be attached to Jani is up in the air but a 1 for 1 swap would still favor the Isles and would hurt our needs for a young top line sniper.

Rita and 2nd for Kvasha and 5th would interest me a lot more!!!
Take out that 5th and I'd still happily do it. I don't have that big of a list of guy's I chear for outside Edmonton, but Kvasha is one of them. Not quite sure why, but I see a career year coming from him either next season or the one after. Hell, I"d even give them Philly's 1st with Rita for Kvasha. Well... maybe not, but close.

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05-04-2004, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
Yep, I'd be more interested in Weinhandl or even Tunik.. I don't think the Isles are looking to move either though.
Newsday says the isles refused to put either Weinhandl or Bergenheim on the table at this yr's trade dealine.They were in talks with the Caps(Witt),Ducks(Carney) and Sabres(Satan).


and I doubt they'd move 19 yr old Tunik.I've a feeling the front office wants the young Russians in part,to help make the aloof Yashin feel more comfortable,more involved.

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05-04-2004, 08:28 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salostyle
Although they have similar track records I think the description of Mapletoft is a little off. They describe his as an offensively gifted player and I think he is a slower version of our own Jarret Stoll and we have too many players of that mold in our system.

Rita is better offensively and at one time was considered a potential game-breaker, whether that phrase could still be attached to Jani is up in the air but a 1 for 1 swap would still favor the Isles and would hurt our needs for a young top line sniper.

Rita and 2nd for Kvasha and 5th would interest me a lot more!!!
25 yr old Kvasha's pretty cheap at $800,000 and coming off a career high 51 pt season.He 's Yashin's best friend on the team.

Isles would pass.

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05-04-2004, 10:08 PM
  #11
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If the Isles are shopping around a young forward we almost have to take him. Sorry crew, I couldn't resist.

In all seriousness I think that it's a great proposal for the Oilers. IIRC Justin looked pretty good in his game against the Oilers although he didn't get much icetime, and skill players usually need more than just a few minutes a game to get something going.

Rita is done here. D-O-N-E done.

I really liked the kid's potential and I'm sure that he'll be a regular 20+ goal scorer in this league, but not here. The Oilers would have to trade away one or two lw's that are way higher on MacT's depth chart than JR is just so that he can get a tryout and that's not going to happen.

We desperately need a center with JM's upside and like JR, he still isn't a bust yet.

I'd do it. Who knows what we can get for Jani now that his name has been dragged through the mud here.

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05-04-2004, 10:28 PM
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Pretty even steven in my eyes, but I wouldn't make it from the Oilers standpoint for no other reason but that the centre depth on the Oilers is ridiculous. Mapleoft really isn't that much better than Bishai.

That said, I could see Rita going for a prospect or a pick. Perhaps Rita for a 3rd round pick, CREW?

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05-04-2004, 10:34 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Pretty even steven in my eyes, but I wouldn't make it from the Oilers standpoint for no other reason but that the centre depth on the Oilers is ridiculous. Mapleoft really isn't that much better than Bishai.

That said, I could see Rita going for a prospect or a pick. Perhaps Rita for a 3rd round pick, CREW?
Why would the Oilers deal him for a 3rd rounder before giving him a good chance with the big club?

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05-04-2004, 10:37 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltalk
Why would the Oilers deal him for a 3rd rounder before giving him a good chance with the big club?
It's not up to the Oilers to give him a chance.. it's up to Jani Rita. He hasn't prooved he's an NHL'er ever in his career. How many guys have passed him and prooved they are NHL players in the last couple of years? Torres, Stoll, Pisani, Semenov, Comrie have all slipped past Rita (all of which were rated lower than Rita at some point or another).

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05-04-2004, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltalk
Why would the Oilers deal him for a 3rd rounder before giving him a good chance with the big club?
That's a good question.

Do you really think that he'll ever get a good chance here though if Smyth, Torres, Moreau, Isbister and Chimera are all here?

A good chance for a first rounder, imo, would be 15 games on the top two lines with some pp time. All MacT will give him is 4 mins a night on the 4th line with Scott Ferguson.

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05-04-2004, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
That's a good question.

Do you really think that he'll ever get a good chance here though if Smyth, Torres, Moreau, Isbister and Chimera are all here?

A good chance for a first rounder, imo, would be 15 games on the top two lines with some pp time. All MacT will give him is 4 mins a night on the 4th line with Scott Ferguson.
My point is, I think it would be more beneficial for the Oilers to give Rita a 20 game stretch of games, and go from there, rather than dealing him for a measily 3rd rounder.

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05-04-2004, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
It's not up to the Oilers to give him a chance.. it's up to Jani Rita. He hasn't prooved he's an NHL'er ever in his career. How many guys have passed him and prooved they are NHL players in the last couple of years? Torres, Stoll, Pisani, Semenov, Comrie have all slipped past Rita (all of which were rated lower than Rita at some point or another).

Great Post Mizral!

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05-04-2004, 11:50 PM
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The most damning thing about Rita, IMO, is this.

For the last 2 years, the guy comes into training camp flying...dominating the scrimmages, scores buckets of goals. He starts the first preseason game, and scores a goal each time.

And each time, as the preseason progressed and the scrubs of the other teams gradually were replaced with actual NHL talent, Rita would meekly fade back into the woodwork while arguably less talented players like Stoll and Salmelainen seemed to play better as the games got tougher.

Rita may be strong as a bull and a weight room maniac, but I question his desire once his skates hit the ice.

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05-05-2004, 12:10 AM
  #19
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No Mapletoft for me...

I'd rather see Rita go to Montreal in a package deal involving players like Garon, Hainsey &/or Hossa.

ie. Garon, Hossa ----- for ----- Isbister/Chimera, Rita, Conklin & Philly's 1st.

** Hossa IMO could be AS productive or more than Isbister has, Garon could be our uncontested number one keeper (with Marks playing 25 to give him as much rest as he needs for his first full kick at the can) and we get our "top notch" goalie with that Philly pick. Moreover, we cut back on salary some to SIGN NEDVED.

Lineups:

Torres Nedved Dvorak
Smyth Horcoff York
Moreau Reasoner Laraque/Pisani
Hossa Stoll Hemsky

Chimera/Isbister, Salmelainen

** Garon, Marks

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05-05-2004, 12:17 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter orange
No Mapletoft for me...

I'd rather see Rita go to Montreal in a package deal involving players like Garon, Hainsey &/or Hossa.

ie. Garon, Hossa ----- for ----- Isbister/Chimera, Rita, Conklin & Philly's 1st.

** Hossa IMO could be AS productive or more than Isbister has, Garon could be our uncontested number one keeper (with Marks playing 25 to give him as much rest as he needs for his first full kick at the can) and we get our "top notch" goalie with that Philly pick. Moreover, we cut back on salary some to SIGN NEDVED.

Lineups:

Torres Nedved Dvorak
Smyth Horcoff York
Moreau Reasoner Laraque/Pisani
Hossa Stoll Hemsky

Chimera/Isbister, Salmelainen

** Garon, Marks
Why overpay so much for Garon?

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05-05-2004, 12:24 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Torres, Stoll, Pisani, Semenov, Comrie have all slipped past Rita (all of which were rated lower than Rita at some point or another).
Torres didn't prove anything to get his chance. He had a one-way contract and was traded for a pretty big name. That's it. Once he was actually given more than 7 minutes of ice time to show his stuff, it was obvious he should stick around.

Guys like Horcoff and Semenov were called up because of injuries, I believe. The best thing for Rita could be a prolonged injury to an Oiler forward , and he (finally) gets the chance to show he belongs.

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05-05-2004, 12:28 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd
Torres didn't prove anything to get his chance. He had a one-way contract and was traded for a pretty big name. That's it. Once he was actually given more than 7 minutes of ice time to show his stuff, it was obvious he should stick around.

Guys like Horcoff and Semenov were called up because of injuries, I believe. The best thing for Rita could be a prolonged injury to an Oiler forward , and he (finally) gets the chance to show he belongs.
In fairness, Torres also played a role that the Oilers needed.

He was a maniac in the AHL and hit all the time. The Oilers needed a player like that in their lineup, hence the reason he got the deal that he did.

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05-05-2004, 12:32 AM
  #23
hunter orange
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I see a Garon/Hossa tantem being more productive than a Conklin/Isbister one... next season and in the future.

Why not take a chance now? We have more than enough depth to make this kind of a gamble. This could well turn out to be a steal.

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05-05-2004, 01:18 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltalk
My point is, I think it would be more beneficial for the Oilers to give Rita a 20 game stretch of games, and go from there, rather than dealing him for a measily 3rd rounder.
Yeah I hear ya, that theory has been done to death around here. I was one of JR's biggest supporters around here and I still think he should have played at least 20 games while Ales sat last season. He got diddley though, all MacT did with him when he was up here was sit him in the pb and give him 4.5 mins of icetime in two games.

This team needs some skilled centers, it has an excess of lw's, in order for him to play here two of the 5 guys ahead of him on the depth chart have to sit out, the Oil would have to sign him to a new one-way contract, and MacT doesn't want anything to do with JR anyways.

If there's a good deal for him we should take it before MacT runs his mouth some more and JR's value drops even further.

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05-05-2004, 01:37 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
In fairness, Torres also played a role that the Oilers needed.

He was a maniac in the AHL and hit all the time. The Oilers needed a player like that in their lineup, hence the reason he got the deal that he did.
They did state they needed a player like that. But needing a new contract - and getting a one-way at that - certainly made the decision a lot easier on the coaching staff on who stays up in the NHL. (sort of like Chimera getting a one-way contract when his two-way one expired) Timing was as important, in Torres' case, as was the role he filled IMO.

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