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Old
04-04-2010, 04:10 PM
  #51
dmonk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Couldn't hurt. I heard they went to a really good chiropractic school too.

Seriously though, even if we did draft Seguin I'm still skeptical of him playing in the NHL right out of his draft year. Then again I was skeptical of Patrick Kane playing in the NHL right out of his draft year so I'm by no means an expert. We won't get either one though, just the way our teams luck goes. We'll be in the #3 pick spot only needing to lose in OT to clinch it, and then Ray Whitney will go off for a natural hat trick in Boston with his final goal coming with 4 seconds left in OT.
That would be great for my fantasy team though.

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04-04-2010, 04:27 PM
  #52
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There is no realistic model for next season not showing Cole in the top 6. He is under contract next season and noone would want him at his price even if JR would try to ship him out. Its just the reality of the situation.

Give LaRose top 6 minutes over Cole if you have to... I'd rather have an overpaid bottom 6 guy than the most useless top 6 guy in the league (only choices with Cole)

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04-04-2010, 05:59 PM
  #53
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I'm so glad I upgraded to expensive seats to watch THAT. Play like that on the road. Our ratio of gaining the red line and dumping it in was about 30%, and if gaining the red line the chance of carrrying it in was about 10%. Frustrating and boring, what a combo.

But closer to a top pick - save the good effort for the last home game boys.

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04-04-2010, 09:16 PM
  #54
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Well, the Tanabe and Hamilton buyouts come off the books next year but Frank's is still there. Actually, next year isn't looking so hot salary-wise already considering the following players already get raises:

Staal - 1.5M
Ward - 1.5M
Ruutu - 1M
Gleason - 500k
Pitkanen - 500k
Jokinen - 400k
LaRose - 400k
Samsonov - 300k
Kostopoulos - 250k
Cole - 200k

That's 6.5M in raises alone with no one getting a paycut this year. There's almost no way Whitney can be brought back without a large paycut unless they plan to sign no one this offseason.

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04-04-2010, 09:19 PM
  #55
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they plan to sign no one this offseason.
You got it.

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04-04-2010, 09:30 PM
  #56
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In honesty, I don't want them to sign anybody this offseason unless they can go large. I'm talking a guy like Frolov or somebody that can play first line wing or on a top pairing. We have what we need in house, we just need them to be another year older.

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04-04-2010, 09:35 PM
  #57
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even with those raises and the Kaberle buyout included, we're only at around 41.9 million heading into next season.

With the following needing to be resigned as RFAs:
Jiri Tlusty (850K estimate)
Brett Carson (650K estimate)
Brian Rodney (550K estimate)
Alexandre Picard (850K estimate)
Justin Peters (500K estimate)

hell, we'll probably let Picard walk. 44.558 million in cap hit with only 2 defenseman spots needing to be filled. Resign Pothier at what he's making now (I actually think he'd take less) and bring in a 3.5 million per UFA, we're still only slightly over 50 million with about a 52 million cap hit. That said, I'd MUCH prefer to shore up our defense then bring Whitney back, just IMO.

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04-04-2010, 09:47 PM
  #58
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Dropping Whitney also eliminates the miracle Samsonov/Cole deal, which we all know won't happen. Opens up a slot for Tlusty who really needs to show what he can do.

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04-04-2010, 10:35 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sam View Post
Well, the Tanabe and Hamilton buyouts come off the books next year but Frank's is still there. Actually, next year isn't looking so hot salary-wise already considering the following players already get raises:

Staal - 1.5M
Ward - 1.5M
Ruutu - 1M
Gleason - 500k
Pitkanen - 500k
Jokinen - 400k
LaRose - 400k
Samsonov - 300k
Kostopoulos - 250k
Cole - 200k

That's 6.5M in raises alone with no one getting a paycut this year. There's almost no way Whitney can be brought back without a large paycut unless they plan to sign no one this offseason.
doesn't Brindy take a cut next year?

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04-04-2010, 11:43 PM
  #60
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doesn't Brindy take a cut next year?
Nope, he makes 3M this year and next. He took his paycut before this year.

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04-05-2010, 12:29 AM
  #61
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doesn't Brindy take a cut next year?
If he retires.

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04-05-2010, 07:21 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Couldn't hurt. I heard they went to a really good chiropractic school too.

Seriously though, even if we did draft Seguin I'm still skeptical of him playing in the NHL right out of his draft year. Then again I was skeptical of Patrick Kane playing in the NHL right out of his draft year so I'm by no means an expert. We won't get either one though, just the way our teams luck goes. We'll be in the #3 pick spot only needing to lose in OT to clinch it, and then Ray Whitney will go off for a natural hat trick in Boston with his final goal coming with 4 seconds left in OT.

edit: oh yeah, forgot to add. That will put Tampa in #3, and then they'll go on to win the draft lottery and add Hall to a lineup that is already ridiculously good and ridiculously underachieving because of their coach.


I'd be much more worried about Tampa getting Fowler. The potential top 2 d-men there makes me cringe.

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Old
04-05-2010, 09:24 AM
  #63
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I'd still look at bringing Whitney back for a Shannahan-like reasonable one-year deal with incentives. Sure he is a player with limitations and not a true first-liner, though I think his shortcomings are being exaggerated by some out of frustration. But the fact remains that there is a leadership void that needs to be filled especially with the young guys who will be here next year.

Despite the excellent record under Staal's captaincy he is still a question mark to me in terms of leadership. Until you don't need to worry whether he has "his legs" on any given night or he bears down and works on his draws, it's hard to make the case of leadership by example. Brindy, if he is back, is a lame duck leader whose influence will probably be muted. The team lost of veteran unofficial leadership in Cullen and Wallin and it hasn't been replaced.

The always unanswered question will also remain. Who will be Staal's playmaking wing? The fact that one is still needed is more an indictment on Staal, to me, than anything. Samsonov, if he is back, isn't he answer and neither can you say Boychuk is ready. Jokinen could play the role but his versatility means he will be shuffled as needed and I would give serious thought to having him center the 3rd line with Boychuk as one of his wings (let the criticism begin ).

In an ideal sense, you bring someone in to play on Staal's wing but it just isn't that likely given another year of missed playoff revenue and on the heels of being at the cap for a good part of the year. If they raise ticket prices to try and offset a higher payroll, the fans will howl for a variety of reasons.

I'm not sure bringing Whitney back takes a younger guy's spot at this point. Tlusty? I think he is a classic case of getting hyped by the repeated praise from Forslund and Tracy. Sure, he had a great first shift and shows good ice awareness but he is invisible much of the time. Bowman isn't ready and Samson is another overhyped player, IMO.

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04-05-2010, 10:11 AM
  #64
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I think StormCast's type of contract makes sense, and I hope Rutherford holds fast to a lower contract or incentive-laden contract for Whitney.

I think Samsonov will be bought out. The options are pay Sammy $2.8 million in 10-11 and a prospect $X in 11-12, or pay the prospect $X in 10-11 and 11-12 and Sammy $933K each year. Even if the prospect makes a million, that's 800K in savings for 10-11 to put elsewhere or reduce from the losses.

I think Cole will be back, but given that Samsonov was playing 4th line the past few weeks, I think the writing is on the wall there. Rutherford won't go after Cole or Brind'Amour, but he can buy out Samsonov without much backlash. Even if it's Osala replacing Samsonov on the 4th line, I think it would work well.

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04-05-2010, 10:20 AM
  #65
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If he retires.
I'm really struggling with the idea of Brind'Amour playing another season. I mean, it's his career to do as he chooses, the Canes signed him to a contract fair and square, the league could use more good old veteran guys, blah blah blahblahblah.

But seriously. He's not Chris Chelios. The man has to realize that he was one of the worst players on one of the worst teams in the league this year, and teams don't just pull the C off a vet for no reason. The longer he plays the worse the situation will get... at what point do his friends stage an intervention?

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04-05-2010, 10:38 AM
  #66
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I'm really struggling with the idea of Brind'Amour playing another season. I mean, it's his career to do as he chooses, the Canes signed him to a contract fair and square, the league could use more good old veteran guys, blah blah blahblahblah.

But seriously. He's not Chris Chelios. The man has to realize that he was one of the worst players on one of the worst teams in the league this year, and teams don't just pull the C off a vet for no reason. The longer he plays the worse the situation will get... at what point do his friends stage an intervention?
If Brindy walks away from $3 million, *then* I'd hope his friends stage an intervention. All he has to do to earn $2 million, is be alive 'til the end of June. Why would anyone expect anyone to hand $2 million to somebody (which is essentially what he'd be doing if he retired). The *only* way Brindy won't be on the playing roster next year is if the Canes buy him out, or if they come to some mutual agreement to pay him his $2 million buyout money over the course of 4-5 years of pro scouting or something. But those hoping for Brindy to "see the writing on the wall" and volunteer to quit are seriously not thinking this through.

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04-05-2010, 10:59 AM
  #67
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned that this was our 3rd straight home 4-0 lose. Why not finish the season out with 4 straight shut out loses. I'm sure that's some kind of record.

In regards to Whitney. I wanted him back pre-deadline. Post deadline, he can go somewhere else. I really wish we NEVER brought Cole back. I like the guy as a person, but as a player, he just isn't the same since the neck injury. Too bad JR can't see that. And too bad Maurice loves him since he helped draft him. If I was able to, I'd ship Cole out before buying out Samsonov. And as far as needing Whitney for leadership with the young guys. Tim Gleason says 'Hello'.

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04-05-2010, 10:59 AM
  #68
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Brindy was over 35 when he signed that contract, so the buyout is the full amount. It's not unprecedented though, Naslund just this past offseason walked away from money with the Rangers and Palffy retired from the Pens with 2 years left on his deal.

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04-05-2010, 11:05 AM
  #69
tarheelhockey
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If Brindy walks away from $3 million, *then* I'd hope his friends stage an intervention. All he has to do to earn $2 million, is be alive 'til the end of June. Why would anyone expect anyone to hand $2 million to somebody (which is essentially what he'd be doing if he retired). The *only* way Brindy won't be on the playing roster next year is if the Canes buy him out, or if they come to some mutual agreement to pay him his $2 million buyout money over the course of 4-5 years of pro scouting or something. But those hoping for Brindy to "see the writing on the wall" and volunteer to quit are seriously not thinking this through.
I'm not saying he should just drop by the office, pack all his stuff into a box and say "I quit" as he walks out the door. Obviously there would need to be a buyout or some other arrangement for him to be paid (unless he wants to pull a Naslund). In fact, if they buy him out and also sign him on as a coach or scout, it might actually work out better for him financially in the long run.

What I am questioning is whether he can "see the writing on the wall" and understand that he will likely finish next season as a healthy scratch behind a 21-year-old, or be carted off the ice mid-season never to return. That's an embarrassing way to end a rock-solid career, even worse than what's happened to Modano in Dallas. At some point, it's time to sit down and talk about what's best in the big picture, not just for next year's paycheck.

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04-05-2010, 11:11 AM
  #70
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And as far as needing Whitney for leadership with the young guys. Tim Gleason says 'Hello'.
No doubt he will provide leadership to the young D players, but the Whitney comment was about providing leadership to the young forwards. There is nobody there to fill that void and it's hard to install a new player in a leadership role.

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04-05-2010, 11:19 AM
  #71
tarheelhockey
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Given Whitney's visible lack of effort since the deadline, I wonder what kind of influence he is having. If he's outwardly disappointed to be here, what message does that send to the younger guys who are just arriving?

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04-05-2010, 11:31 AM
  #72
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If Brindy walks away from $3 million, *then* I'd hope his friends stage an intervention. All he has to do to earn $2 million, is be alive 'til the end of June. Why would anyone expect anyone to hand $2 million to somebody (which is essentially what he'd be doing if he retired). The *only* way Brindy won't be on the playing roster next year is if the Canes buy him out, or if they come to some mutual agreement to pay him his $2 million buyout money over the course of 4-5 years of pro scouting or something. But those hoping for Brindy to "see the writing on the wall" and volunteer to quit are seriously not thinking this through.
Yeah, I agree. That's clearly not going to happen. A buyout is possible, but only if he is sure he can't play better.

We as fans are viewing this from outside the organization, but we need to think like JR and PK and be inside the organizational culture for a moment. The man who captained our only Stanley Cup champion is going to get the right to go out on his own terms. And to boot, I suspect Rod still thinks he can will his body into one last season, a much better perforning one. Hey, it could happen, wouldn't be the first time. Maybe he changes his 'spartan' training regimen for next year and comes back an effective 4th line center who wins 60% of draws and provides leadership. He might be a very different person in the room when he knows it's his last go-around.

Unless he doesn't believe he can take another year, or we make a lucrative buyout (unlikely), Rod is back to finish out his deal. And all things considered, I'm ok with that.

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Old
04-05-2010, 11:31 AM
  #73
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I seriously doubt Whitney is disappointed to be here, otherwise he would have waived his no trade clause. Dude is 38 years old and he's not immune to slowing down out of nowhere either.

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04-05-2010, 11:36 AM
  #74
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With Staal being named captain, along with Gleason's role, and Sutter's track record as a team leader at previous levels...Im not sure there is any leadership void at forward or otherwise. The Canes essentially have leadership in each of their phases, a top tier forward captain, a solid guy on the backend, and a leader among the young group themselves.

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04-05-2010, 11:37 AM
  #75
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I believe Cole has worn the "A" in the past as well as Ruutu.

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