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Should Hatcher be suspended?

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Old
05-05-2004, 10:03 PM
  #26
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
A suspension isn't just supposed to make the player forfeit money, it is supposed to act as a deterrent to the player from committing similar acts in the future.
I'd like to add that it is also supposed to act as to deter ALL players from committing similar acts in the future. While Hatcher may scoff at the lost salary or time off, many other players would not. To continue my analogy with prison, those who may not care about going can still serve as an example to those who do. If I see a man going to prison for moonwalking down the middle of the street, regardless of whether or not HE is concerned with the penalty imposed, I'll take it to mind. I don't want to go to prison.

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05-05-2004, 11:17 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob_paxon
By your logic, there simply is no point in suspending any high-salary player during the regular season.
Not at all. If this were something done during the regular season, then sit him for a few games. But something that happened in a playoff game 5 months earlier just isn't worth 1-2 regular season games.

It would be different if this were an incident worthy of a lengthy suspension (such as Domi on Niedermayer), but it's not.

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Old
05-05-2004, 11:25 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness
To me, it looked like he laid on the ice with his head down until the ref blew the whistle, then his head popped right back up, trying to draw a call. On the replay, Hatcher did get his elbow into him, but if the refs would've done the right thing and called a penalty, then there would be no debate.
Actually, I saw the same thing as well. I don't know if it was an embellishment or not, as the hit looked pretty vicious, but I can defenitely see your angle on it.

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05-05-2004, 11:31 PM
  #29
stu the grim reaper
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i think a suspension is fair

its stupid to criticize the detroit coaching staff tho
thats not their responsibility

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05-05-2004, 11:49 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosbyfan
Put another way, next time Hatcher lines up somebody for an elbow why would the player not take a two handed swing at him "Perezhogin style"? It would seem like a reasonable thing to do.
In What world does that become reasonable?

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05-06-2004, 02:01 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by X8oD
In What world does that become reasonable?
In an uncivilized "survival of the fittest (read dirtiest)" one. One in which there is no structure or where any resemblance to structure is not enforced.

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Old
05-06-2004, 02:13 AM
  #32
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To answer the original question, no, Hatcher should not have been suspended for the hit.

Just my opinion.

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Old
05-06-2004, 02:35 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob_paxon
I'd like to add that it is also supposed to act as to deter ALL players from committing similar acts in the future.
Yeah. We should bookmark this thread for next time people talk about the NHL's discipline lacking consistency. If the NHL wants to show that its talk about stopping blows to the head isn't just a bunch of crap, they should act.

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05-06-2004, 02:51 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
Not at all. If this were something done during the regular season, then sit him for a few games. But something that happened in a playoff game 5 months earlier just isn't worth 1-2 regular season games.

It would be different if this were an incident worthy of a lengthy suspension (such as Domi on Niedermayer), but it's not.
At the speed of the players coming together this could easily have been much worse. It was intent to injure and dangerous.

The NHL is dropping the ball (again) if they use your line of thinking. They are condoning the use of dangerous plays at least as reasonable methods for intimidation.

If 1-2 games means nothing to Hatcher so be it. Take the number of games he should be suspended for the actual incident; You say one or two , I would say more. Now add a multiplying factor for second offence 2X, third 4X, fourth 8X, fifth 16X etc and I suspect eventually he will stop playing dangerously or stop playing entirely.

My guess is that he would learn to control his elbows. He has learned a lot of behaviours that make him valuable to his team. What level of suspension would be required to make his dangerous plays a liability instead of an asset to his team?

The least they could do is TELL him he would have missed the 7th game. "Oh by the way Mr. Hatcher, If there was a 7th game you wouldn't be playing". Even if he didn't get the message others might.

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Old
05-06-2004, 03:02 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
To answer the original question, no, Hatcher should not have been suspended for the hit.

Just my opinion.
Then why not throw elbows like that all the time against any key player on the opposing team? Surely the "risk" of a possible 2 minute penalty is outweighed by the "benefit" of marginalizing a key player.

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Old
05-06-2004, 03:18 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosbyfan
Then why not throw elbows like that all the time against any key player on the opposing team? Surely the "risk" of a possible 2 minute penalty is outweighed by the "benefit" of marginalizing a key player.
As he said, it was his opinion. Does everyone have to agree with you or something?

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Old
05-06-2004, 03:25 AM
  #37
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I think that the league should not be capable of suspending a player for an incident if the incident did not result in a penalty on the ice. Therefore, it would force the NHL to get some quality, consistant referees that call true penalties and let the questionable ones slide. Hatchers elbow was less vicious than Steve Moore's hit on Naslund and Lombardi barely missed 2 mins of the game. Not to mention Moore's hit caused a concussion and sidelined Naslund for a few games. Lombardi barely missed a beat.

But to be perfectly honest, the reason Hatcher won't be suspended is because Hatcher makes more money than Lombardi, the same reason why Niemenen got suspended for hitting Cujo is because Cujo makes more money than Niemenen. Suspensions should be based on the evil-doers salary instead of the incident!

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05-06-2004, 04:49 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton
I think that the league should not be capable of suspending a player for an incident if the incident did not result in a penalty on the ice. Therefore, it would force the NHL to get some quality, consistant referees that call true penalties and let the questionable ones slide.
I suppose in your world the referees see absolutely everything that happens on the ice.

Get real. 20,000 fans at the Saddledome didn't see Hatcher's elbow until they saw a replay.

The supplemental disciplinary system is in place for a reason.

Also, if the NHL's referees are not good, tell me where the NHL is going to find better referees. The guys working the NHL are the best of the best.

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Old
05-06-2004, 07:53 AM
  #39
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Hatcher knew what he was doing....any attempt to injure or hit to the head should recive a suspesion... period. The lenght of the suspension is difficult to negotiate because at flash point, when the offence occurs, it is sometimes difficult to discern intent from accident.
Whether Lombardi came back quickly is irrelevant.. hits to the head should be severly penalized accidental or not.

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Old
05-06-2004, 10:35 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rye&ginger
I thought Selanne was trying to dodge the hit and his legs didnt get out of the way in time.
The funny thing is Chris Simon & Denis Gauthier were both suspended this season for the same incident. Sergei Zubov & Sami Salo tried to jump out of the way of hits and their knees came together. This is no different and if the NHL wants to show that is does not base its suspensions on names or teams then they should be consistent and suspend McLaren.

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Old
05-06-2004, 10:36 AM
  #41
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Hatcher should miss the first week of the season next year...

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Old
05-06-2004, 10:43 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
You're missing my point.

A suspension isn't just supposed to make the player forfeit money, it is supposed to act as a deterrent to the player from committing similar acts in the future.

Suspending a player as important to his team as Derian Hatcher is to the Red Wings for a playoff game, especially a Game 7, would make the player think about what he did...or so we hope it would.

Suspending a player who makes as much money as Derian Hatcher does for a couple regular season games won't make him think about his actions. Sure, he loses some pocket change, but he doesn't care about that. He's still making millions upon millions of dollars that season anyway. The games are relatively unimportant. He will sit and watch the games with friends and family not really giving a rats ass about what he did.

I'm not saying Hatcher doesn't deserve it. It's just pointless.
No, I get your point. It just isn't valid.

Your argument is that such a suspension does nothing to prevent Hatcher from doing this again. Fine. Then why bother suspending any repeat offender? They obviously arent learning from their mistakes, and obviously losing money doesnt affect them.

So the question becomes, why bother suspending anyone at all? Every time someone gets suspended for an elbow or a knee or a high stick, someone else comes along a few weeks later and gets nailed for the exact same infractions. Suspensions obviously arent working. Why waste the time?

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Old
05-06-2004, 02:35 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehc73
As he said, it was his opinion. Does everyone have to agree with you or something?
No, I actually wanted his opinion on my question as well. Feel free to answer with your opinion.

If you have one.

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Old
05-08-2004, 12:15 AM
  #44
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I hope if theres a season next year that Mr.Cheap meets his maker,Oliwa or Simon will do!...i'll even supply the titanium elbow pads!!!

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Old
05-08-2004, 01:48 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T@T
I hope if theres a season next year that Mr.Cheap meets his maker,Oliwa or Simon will do!...i'll even supply the titanium elbow pads!!!
Simon is an UFA, and neither are world class heavyweights, HAtcher would hold his own.

And hell, After watching Simon Run from just about every potential fighter in the league when he was on New York, I highly doubt hed have the balls to do anything unless hatcher had his back turned.

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Old
05-08-2004, 05:14 AM
  #46
Crosbyfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T@T
I hope if theres a season next year that Mr.Cheap meets his maker,Oliwa or Simon will do!...i'll even supply the titanium elbow pads!!!
Is Frontier Justice required? Because the NHL is pulling an "ostrich" once again?

If Lombardy had reacted badly and swung his stick at Hatcher "Perezhogin style" would Lombardy have gotten a year suspension? Would Hatcher have gotten 6 games?


Last edited by Crosbyfan: 05-08-2004 at 05:19 AM.
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Old
05-08-2004, 11:07 AM
  #47
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Was it a blow to the head? Yes. Was it intentional? Yes. Should he be suspended? 100% yes!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosbyfan
Detroit is out despite Hatchers attempt to injure Lombardy with his elbow. Should he be suspended for any games next season or should the league do nothing and thereby indicate that this is acceptable behaviour? The refs missed the call but plenty of video exists indicating that he seriously jeopardized Lombardy's brain. Lombardy was back for the second period. Even if the Detroit coaching staff missed it as well they had to be aware of it immediately as it was displayed for the crowd on the overhead. By playing him they also indicated that they considered it acceptable behaviour. Hatcher never missed a shift. His only punishment was that he was booed every time he touched the puck.

Should the NHL wait for serious injuries to react?

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Old
05-08-2004, 11:57 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X8oD
Simon is an UFA
Simon has stated and i quote: "i sure hope they have me in their plans,i love this city and i would love to be part of this team for years to come"

Could be wrong but i get the feeling he won't run to the highest bidder! as far as NY goes...who would want to fight for that team? :lol

And Hatcher is the biggest 6'5 wimp i've ever seen,have yet to see him challenge a true heavyweight! i liked Iginla's churp to him..."for a guy your size..you sure don't bring much!!"

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Old
05-08-2004, 12:48 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerpaul
Was it a blow to the head? Yes. Was it intentional? Yes. Should he be suspended? 100% yes!
That's all that really needs to be said. There's no reason for it to be any more complicated than that.

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Old
05-08-2004, 02:26 PM
  #50
X8oD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T@T
And Hatcher is the biggest 6'5 wimp i've ever seen,have yet to see him challenge a true heavyweight
okay, well Oliwa and Simon are far from true "knock down top-of-the-line heavyweights", so to imply they would "Bring fear" is about as logical as saying "Scott Parker is going to wreak Havok in the play-offs"

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