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Coyotes ownership [IEH, Reinsdorf, NHL, Glendale and all related topics]

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Old
04-07-2010, 11:07 AM
  #26
TeamTippett
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So you'd rather lose the team?
if the alternative is this waiting for the next five years with fingers crossed, and to see the drive-by journalism battering from north of the border for that 5 years; then yes move now. Sure neither I.E. nor JR Will own this franchise in 26years and yes I understood that I.E. or any entity can go right back to bankruptcy court again if it's not financially viable. HOWEVER the City of Glendale built that franchise a facility for 1 purpose, for 1 tenant. Unlike a home or any other asset that can easily be occupied by someone else, that building is intended for the occupancy of 1 thing. All I am saying is pull the band-aid off all at once and endure the pain, rather than slowly over the course of the next 5 years. I personally want this painful chapter to close sooner rather than latter.

The reason(s) why I'm adimate against the J.R. proposal is that he arrogantly wants to reap in all the upside gains and wants the City of Glendale to be exposed to all the potential looses. That I find offensive; that the City should be putting themselves out like that. In the original JR proposal from over the summer, he wanted the City to foot the bill for any looses. Now an out clause? Maybe I'm reading more into this, but the City can't control how a privet enterprise chooses to run their operations.

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04-07-2010, 11:24 AM
  #27
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From what I understand of Reinsdorf's proposal, it's not "If this team doesn't make a profit in five years, I'm moving them somewhere else."

It's "If this team doesn't make a profit in five years, I'll try to find a local buyer, and then if I can't do that, I'll sell it to someone who might move the team." What this means is, if it truly is an unsustainable market, then Glendale loses the team, but if an owner thinks it was Reinsdorf's fault and thinks he can turn a profit, he has priority to buy the team.

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Old
04-07-2010, 03:36 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Alberta Yote View Post
The end game is to not lose their *** if better management and a reasonably successful on-ice product isn't enough to make the team profitable.
Reasonable on ice success is tangible but how do you prove if better management has occurred?

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Did it ever strike you two that it might just be a prerequisite for getting financing for any sort of deal? Having a clean, contractual out cuts deep into the risk factor from the bank side, if not eliminating it. The franchise can always be sold and barring a meltdown in franchise values (which would mean everyone has a problem) they can probably recover most, if not all of their money.
Did it ever strike you that it might not be? Whether or not that is a prerequisite is irrelevant when it comes to questioning the motives of JR. Unless you're insinuating that questioning JR's motives somehow means you'd rather not have the team at all which doesn't make sense. Some may feel that way but it's not mutually exclusive. I will choose any owner over no owner, that doesn't mean I can't be suspicious of JR's end game.

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I'm sure the conditions will have specific metrics about them. That is to say that JR can't up and move the team if they are turning a profit or their situation looks good. It all has to be hashed out to be fair to both sides.
I'm not as confident about that as you seem to be but I certainly hope that's the case should JR officially as for a 5yr out clause and does get the team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art.Vandelay View Post
The Coyotes have been here since 1996 and have yet to make money. Many of the issues are explainable such as the AWA obstructed view seats, bad AWA lease, poor on ice product, poor team management, poor ownership etc.

But at some point, we are going to run out of excuses. If Reinsdorf truly tries to turn things around but is unable to make things work because the fans just aren't there, then we deserve to lost the team. It's that simple. This will be our last chance and a large portion of the success or failure of this team is in our laps.
I don't disagree with you assuming honest efforts are made but what I worry about is whether or not that will be the case and how you can prove it one way or the other.

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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
JR is a good man

Sox were in the Coyotes position badly in debt and almost relocated 3 times (3rd time MLB Commish came in and used best interest of game power to prevent sale to Eddie Debartalo Sr who wanted to move Sox to New Orleans)

It takes time to negotiate debt and pay it off. JR did it with both Bulls and Sox and I am sure he would put all effort into making it work in Glendale especially with his connections to city and his living in Arizona (Soon to be full time)

He will give the Coyotes a chance to succeed , But if things dont improve he needs to know he has a way out and I think that is only fair
I sincerely hope you're right!!

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Old
04-07-2010, 04:15 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Did it ever strike you that it might not be?
The likelihood of your inverse scenario is slim to none.

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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
I will choose any owner over no owner, that doesn't mean I can't be suspicious of JR's end game.
That's great and all, and you have that right, but it just seems so incredibly petty at this point in the game. We've gone this far without so much as a prayer and if JR thinks he can make it work (whatever that entails) you guys want to question him? You're making it easy for outsiders to say hockey won't work here.

By god. If Reinsdorf turns the team around, then flips them, we would be better off anyways having proved we can support hockey here in Arizona. There is no downside to him as an owner.

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Old
04-07-2010, 04:37 PM
  #30
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The likelihood of your inverse scenario is slim to none.
Says you, which means nothing more than anyone else on this board.

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That's great and all, and you have that right, but it just seems so incredibly petty at this point in the game. We've gone this far without so much as a prayer and if JR thinks he can make it work (whatever that entails) you guys want to question him? You're making it easy for outsiders to say hockey won't work here.
Again, you assume JR is altruistic in his intentions to make hockey work here, I am undecided on that. Being skeptical is not petty, it's prudent. I'm happy JR is back in the mix because 2 groups vying for the franchise is better than 1 but until details on how this "out clause" are released, I will remain skeptical about his intentions.

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04-07-2010, 05:00 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Says you, which means nothing more than anyone else on this board.
Hooookay, because the probability of financing being hinged on an out clause isn't more likely than not. Whatever you say, expert.

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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Again, you assume JR is altruistic in his intentions to make hockey work here, I am undecided on that.


You guys still don't get it though. What do we stand to lose by having an owner with an out clause? You do know that being contractually anchored to Glendale for 30 years is what got this franchise in trouble in the first place, right? JR is a tactician and will use the out clause to keep the franchise viable. If it isn't viable here, he will move it. Having an out is part of a normal hedging strategy as AY pointed out.

Simple enough.

And let's sum this up once more; If JR can't make it work here, he will move the team. Because we know that no other owners of consequence will step forward to keep the team here. If JR can't make it work, no one can. If JR hasn't made it work in 5 years, that will have meant that the franchise was again terrible on the ice and the financial problems continue.

At what point do you gets get off thinking you deserve more?

It's pretty brave of JR (or Ice Edge) to come forward and attempt this. Say what you will about his means, but he still has to do a lot of maneuvering to get the deal in place. I honestly do not give a flying **** about JR's "intentions" or "motivations" so long as he keeps the team here another 5 years, minimum. At that point he can burn Jobing.com down to the ground if he wants.

This town has had some real jackass owners. Why does it not surprise me that people have trouble accepting a legit one?

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Old
04-07-2010, 05:57 PM
  #32
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Hooookay, because the probability of financing being hinged on an out clause isn't more likely than not. Whatever you say, expert.
Probability being more likely than not is far from "slim to none" and I never said anything about being an expert.

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Originally Posted by XX View Post
You guys still don't get it though.
You are replying to me, I'm one person.

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Originally Posted by XX View Post
What do we stand to lose by having an owner with an out clause?
The team.

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Originally Posted by XX View Post
You do know that being contractually anchored to Glendale for 30 years is what got this franchise in trouble in the first place, right?
That is not true and it's been discussed hundreds of times already, there is far more to the Coyotes troubles than the 30yr lease agreement.

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Originally Posted by XX View Post
JR is a tactician and will use the out clause to keep the franchise viable. If it isn't viable here, he will move it. Having an out is part of a normal hedging strategy as AY pointed out.
Maybe he will and maybe he won't but either way there is no guarantee his ultimate goal is to make hockey work in the valley.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
And let's sum this up once more; If JR can't make it work here, he will move the team. Because we know that no other owners of consequence will step forward to keep the team here. If JR can't make it work, no one can. If JR hasn't made it work in 5 years, that will have meant that the franchise was again terrible on the ice and the financial problems continue.
Again, you're assuming JR has altruistic motives in making hockey work here in the valley. I'm not saying he doesn't but I'm assuming nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
At what point do you gets get off thinking you deserve more?
I never said I deserved more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
It's pretty brave of JR (or Ice Edge) to come forward and attempt this. Say what you will about his means, but he still has to do a lot of maneuvering to get the deal in place. I honestly do not give a flying **** about JR's "intentions" or "motivations" so long as he keeps the team here another 5 years, minimum. At that point he can burn Jobing.com down to the ground if he wants.
That's fine, you're definitely entitled to your own opinion.

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Old
04-07-2010, 06:05 PM
  #33
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You two must be doing this on purpose.

Highly entertaining, although if you could keep it just a bit shorter it would be appreciated. I am a little attention span challenged.

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04-07-2010, 06:14 PM
  #34
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I never said I deserved more.
You're questioning the motives of JR, who is making an effort to keep the Coyotes here at least for 5 years, when no one else is making such an effort. IE has an even shakier bid.

It goes back to; would you rather lose the team? That might be all-or-nothing, but at this point we have precious few options which involve the Coyotes staying, and plenty of juicy ones which involve the team moving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
That's fine, you're definitely entitled to your own opinion.
My opinion is thus; give the Coyotes and the fans 5 years to prove that hockey works in the desert. That is all. The out is and should be totally irrelevant to everyone involved. I don't think it's a huge leap of faith to embrace someone who is going to give it an honest go.

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Originally Posted by Alberta Yote View Post
You two must be doing this on purpose.

Highly entertaining, although if you could keep it just a bit shorter it would be appreciated. I am a little attention span challenged.
We need a Thunder Dome thread.

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Old
04-07-2010, 06:44 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Alberta Yote View Post
You two must be doing this on purpose.

Highly entertaining, although if you could keep it just a bit shorter it would be appreciated. I am a little attention span challenged.
Yeah, let's get back on topic and talk Rampage hock... wait... oh nvm.

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Old
04-07-2010, 07:11 PM
  #36
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Do I have to haul yakko in here and start agreeing with him on things? I'll do it. DON'T tempt me.
Posted via Mobile Device

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Old
04-07-2010, 07:59 PM
  #37
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http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/s...5/daily48.html

Quote:
Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 5:22pm MST
Bond district backers say they’ll nix their own bill if it becomes Coyotes’ mechanism
Phoenix Business Journal - by Mike Sunnucks

Backers of Arizona legislation that could be used by Glendale to help broker a lease and sale of the Phoenix Coyotes to Chicago Bulls owners Jerry Reinsdorf say they will nix that bill if it becomes a “Coyotes” measure.

A new version of Senate Bill 1083 has been put forward at the Legislature. It allows reserve funds to be created for community facilities districts. CFDs can created by cities, which can then use them to bond against for public infrastructure projects and spending.

Glendale and Reinsdorf want to create a CFD around the city-owned Jobing.com Arena and Westgate City Center to capture property tax revenue and bond against it. Those bond proceeds could then be used to help forge a new lease with Reinsdorf and help finance a purchase of the Coyotes.

But Robert D. Dalager, an attorney with the Gallagher & Kennedy law firm, said SB 1083 was originally geared for a California-based real estate developer -- AZPropertyCo Holdings LLC -- which wants to develop land in Buckeye and utilize a CFD mechanism to finance infrastructure construction.

Dalager said if SB1083 becomes a Glendale-Coyotes bill it will be killed by its backers and won’t pass the Legislature. He did not rule out the Glendale or Reinsdorf camps trying to amend that bill or another measure to allow for bond proceeds to be used for the arena or the Coyotes. Dalager said the intent was to help AZPropertyCo in Buckeye, not Reinsdorf and Glendale with the Coyotes.

...

The CFD concept and allowing an out-clause after five or six years are centerpieces to Reinsdorf’s bid for the Coyotes. The out-clause would allow Reinsdorf to sell the team to an owner in another market if the hockey team’s finances don’t improve and he can’t find a new owner in Phoenix.

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04-07-2010, 08:15 PM
  #38
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You do realize the offers are already in and this legislation has no bearing on them..

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04-07-2010, 08:22 PM
  #39
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You do realize the offers are already in and this legislation has no bearing on them..
If Reinsdorf's offer is contingent on CoG creating a CFD - they yes it does.

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04-07-2010, 08:29 PM
  #40
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If Reinsdorf's offer is contingent on CoG creating a CFD - they yes it does.
Thinking that Reinsdorf got back in the mix to submitted an offer contingent upon some legislation that may or may not pass is MONUMENTALLY stupid..

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04-07-2010, 08:45 PM
  #41
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Brahm Resnick from channel 12 tweeted that Daryl Jones is threatening to pull their bid because cog is jerking them around. Some fans here at the game said channel 12 stopped them outside the arena and said Ice Edge pulled out and asked for a reaction. I'm sure ice edge is frustrated but I do not believe a word channel 12 and especially Brahm Resnick has to say. He has been biased on the situation since day one.


Last edited by Art.Vandelay: 04-07-2010 at 08:51 PM.
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04-07-2010, 08:48 PM
  #42
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Insightful, as ususal.

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04-07-2010, 08:50 PM
  #43
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Guys, I hope it works out for you. As a Predators fan I know exactly how awful going through this is. The only difference is our situation didn't last nearly as long. I was skeptical of everyone involved with and everything involving my hockey club for the entire summer of 2007.

Good luck. Hope to see you guys in the play offs.

Oh and good luck tonight. I hope you guys score 100 goals... as long as we score 101

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Old
04-07-2010, 08:55 PM
  #44
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Insightful, as ususal.
Sorry, I'm typing on a blackberry and for some reason I have had trouble typing Coyotes related info for the past 10 months. Must be that new "patch" they pushed out.


Posted via Mobile Device

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Old
04-07-2010, 09:15 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Art.Vandelay View Post
Brahm Resnick from channel 12 tweeted that Daryl Jones is threatening to pull their bid because cog is jerking them around. Some fans here at the game said channel 12 stopped them outside the arena and said Ice Edge pulled out and asked for a reaction. I'm sure ice edge is frustrated but I do not believe a word channel 12 and especially Brahm Resnick has to say. He has been biased on the situation since day one.
I know little of Brahm (and his annoyingly hard to remember how to spell name and "Look at me, I'm an Anchorman" twitter pic), other than from his tweets, and haven't picked up any obvious biases.

How do you think he is biased?

I do give him props for being, seemingly, one of the few local media people to actually have been covering the whole JB, Moyes et al soap opera.


Last edited by kdb209: 04-07-2010 at 09:21 PM.
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Old
04-07-2010, 09:25 PM
  #46
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I also don't detect too much bias from Brahm, other than playing up the doom and gloom angles when he can. But he's certainly been the foremost media personality from Phoenix covering the story and he's typically accurate.

His tweets tonight had direct quotes from Jones, fwiw.

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04-07-2010, 09:30 PM
  #47
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How do you think he is biased?
He absolutely loves to report doom and gloom stuff, even before it's 100% confirmed. He also slants everything to make it sound as ominous as possible. It's pathetic. It's blatantly made to grab viewers.

What's this crap about CFDs being A-OK for Buckeye but not for Glendale?

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Old
04-08-2010, 12:14 AM
  #48
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Article here:

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news...072010-CR.html

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04-08-2010, 12:35 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
I know little of Brahm (and his annoyingly hard to remember how to spell name and "Look at me, I'm an Anchorman" twitter pic), other than from his tweets, and haven't picked up any obvious biases.

How do you think he is biased?

I do give him props for being, seemingly, one of the few local media people to actually have been covering the whole JB, Moyes et al soap opera.
First and foremost, I met him at a preseason game. He tweeted that he was looking for some fans to chat with so we stopped by. I got tired of his comments basically bashing AZ as a hockey market so when he asked us to answer some questions on the record, we just left.

His tweets only focus on the articles that are negative towards the Coyotes staying in AZ. He has no problem providing a link to a Canadian article speculating that the Coyotes are done and moving to Winnipeg, but when IE or the NHL refutes the speculation, not a peep from him.

He is the most visible member of the local press following the situation due to his Twitter feeds, but not the only one. I saw Rebekah Sanders spend alot more time in the courtroom than him but since is a Glendale reporter for AZ republic not a TV anchor she's not exactly as high profile.

My issue is that he seems to only report one side of the story. If he is rooting for the Coyotes to move, that's his choice. I just feel that as a member of the press he should be presenting both sides of this fiasco and that is definitely not happening.

Oh, and I forgot to mention the IE/Shoalts April fools joke. Resnick was so anxious to push Shoalts story of IE pulling out and trying to buy Manchester United, he didn't even make an attempt to verify it.

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04-08-2010, 08:43 AM
  #50
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Sounds like we will know more tomorrow and even more on Tuesday.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...dale-vote.html

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