HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Atlanta on the move in 2011?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-06-2010, 09:04 PM
  #26
btn
Gone Hollywood
 
btn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: ATL
Country: United States
Posts: 15,658
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Hockey Fan View Post
Not really but there has been some excitement this year. The people of this city are all about Georgia football - something I couldn't care less about.
What the Thrashers need is to get more carpetbaggers like yourself to embrace the home team. I am from NJ, and I gave up the Devils when the Thrashers were born.

We have the hockey fans in Atlanta, but they just want to root for their home teams. Which is a shame.

btn is offline  
Old
04-06-2010, 09:10 PM
  #27
NYR Hockey Fan
 
NYR Hockey Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by btn View Post
What the Thrashers need is to get more carpetbaggers like yourself to embrace the home team. I am from NJ, and I gave up the Devils when the Thrashers were born.

We have the hockey fans in Atlanta, but they just want to root for their home teams. Which is a shame.
I root for the Thrashers too but I'll never give up my Rangers regardless of how much they suck.

NYR Hockey Fan is offline  
Old
04-06-2010, 09:26 PM
  #28
TrentSteele
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 259
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindrosfan88 View Post
No.

Atlanta will have 7 million people at the end of the decade. We can't abandon what will be a top six market

The Hawks have never been popular. They should go back to St Louis.
These are two contradictory comments. How is it that the 7 million people aren't good enough for the Hawks (who aren't popular) yet they are good enough for the Thrashers (who aren't popular)?

TrentSteele is offline  
Old
04-06-2010, 09:32 PM
  #29
Moobles
Registered User
 
Moobles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,551
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by btn View Post
What the Thrashers need is to get more carpetbaggers like yourself to embrace the home team. I am from NJ, and I gave up the Devils when the Thrashers were born.

We have the hockey fans in Atlanta, but they just want to root for their home teams. Which is a shame.
It will take:

a) A winning franchise.
b) Heavy marketing, subsidized ticket prices, more exposure at major sporting events, more exposure to merchandise.
c) The key: time.

If Atlanta starts winning, makes the playoffs continually and the others follow a hockey fanbase will develop, but it will take some time. I'm not saying they need a cup (if anything, no cup keeps people coming back every year). It took 30 oddish years to turn Vancouver into a real strong NHL market. I would hazard a guess that a similar or longer timetable might be needed for a place like Atlanta to become self-sufficient.

Moobles is offline  
Old
04-06-2010, 09:59 PM
  #30
Brodie
Moderator
watcher on the walls
 
Brodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 11,864
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by btn View Post
What the Thrashers need is to get more carpetbaggers like yourself to embrace the home team. I am from NJ, and I gave up the Devils when the Thrashers were born.

We have the hockey fans in Atlanta, but they just want to root for their home teams. Which is a shame.
This is extremely hard to do when you're dealing with adults. It's one thing to take someone from Atlanta who had been cheering for a team and turn them into a Thrashers fan... getting a 30 year old from Buffalo who grew up loving the Sabres to just give that up is virtually impossible.

It will take at least one generation to see homegrown southern hockey fandom. The only people who have grown up on Thrashers hockey are 11 and under.

Brodie is offline  
Old
04-06-2010, 10:07 PM
  #31
NYR Hockey Fan
 
NYR Hockey Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
This is extremely hard to do when you're dealing with adults. It's one thing to take someone from Atlanta who had been cheering for a team and turn them into a Thrashers fan... getting a 30 year old from Buffalo who grew up loving the Sabres to just give that up is virtually impossible.

It will take at least one generation to see homegrown southern hockey fandom. The only people who have grown up on Thrashers hockey are 11 and under.
The older generation remembers the Atlanta Flames which were a competitive team. They say that even then it was hard for them to embrace hockey, not growing up with the sport.

Talk of another relocation is not surprising to them.

NYR Hockey Fan is offline  
Old
04-06-2010, 10:23 PM
  #32
Melrose Munch
Registered User
 
Melrose Munch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,108
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentSteele View Post
These are two contradictory comments. How is it that the 7 million people aren't good enough for the Hawks (who aren't popular) yet they are good enough for the Thrashers (who aren't popular)?
Pro Basketball gets killed by College, and Hockey competes with nothing.

Melrose Munch is offline  
Old
04-06-2010, 11:41 PM
  #33
Jeffrey93
Registered User
 
Jeffrey93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moobles View Post
If Atlanta starts winning, makes the playoffs continually and the others follow a hockey fanbase will develop, but it will take some time. I'm not saying they need a cup (if anything, no cup keeps people coming back every year). It took 30 oddish years to turn Vancouver into a real strong NHL market. I would hazard a guess that a similar or longer timetable might be needed for a place like Atlanta to become self-sufficient.
Good luck with that.

Jeffrey93 is offline  
Old
04-07-2010, 03:00 AM
  #34
MAROONSRoad
f/k/a Ghost
 
MAROONSRoad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Maroons Rd.
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,060
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/ellio...c-at-best.html



So, regardless of the impact on the naming rights agreement for the Phillips Arena, if they really want to concentrate on NBA (and use those 40+ dates for something else) and management/ownership is still messed up (financially), the Thrashers could be on the move next spring.


(There are threads set up for a number of potential destinations. Let's keep this thread focused on Atlanta's future in Georgia, not potential destinations.)
March, 2011? It's my understanding that the current ownership group purchased the Thrashers in September 2003 prior to the the 2003/04 NHL season. If so,

2003-04 (season 1)
2004-05
2005-06
2006-07
2007-08
2008-09
2009-10 (season 7)

The Thrashers' 2010 season ended last night.

GHOST

MAROONSRoad is offline  
Old
04-07-2010, 03:17 AM
  #35
Reality Check
Registered User
 
Reality Check's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,654
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuelphMadHatter View Post
Do they really care about the Hawks either?
Yes..but as stated, the state of Georgia will always be first and foremost a college sports hub.

The Hawks were floundering after the departure of Dominique Wilkens(who had the misfortune of playing in the stacked Eastern Conference in the 80's with subpar teammates) and fielded some mediocre playoff to downright bad teams.

Now, they're a young team who probably still need another piece or two to make some serious noise and become a favorite to win it all.

Reality Check is offline  
Old
04-07-2010, 07:11 AM
  #36
jessebelanger
Registered User
 
jessebelanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTofMAROONSroad View Post
March, 2011? It's my understanding that the current ownership group purchased the Thrashers in September 2003 prior to the the 2003/04 NHL season. If so,

2003-04 (season 1)
2004-05
2005-06
2006-07
2007-08
2008-09
2009-10 (season 7)

The Thrashers' 2010 season ended last night.

GHOST
I suspect the key word is season

jessebelanger is offline  
Old
04-07-2010, 07:21 AM
  #37
KevFist
is best pony
 
KevFist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Birmingham, AL
Country: Northern Ireland
Posts: 5,100
vCash: 500
Don't think the loss of Kovalchuk will hurt the Thrashers in Atlanta in any way, shape or form. People didn't come to games because of Kovy.

Also, don't think the departure of the Flames had anything to do with attendance. The owner of the team lost his tail in a bottomed-out real estate market and had to sell personal assets.

KevFist is offline  
Old
04-07-2010, 07:59 AM
  #38
NYR Hockey Fan
 
NYR Hockey Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindrosfan88 View Post
Pro Basketball gets killed by College, and Hockey competes with nothing.
I disagree. Hockey is October - April/May? That means that in Atlanta, it competes with SEC and ACC Football and Basketball, the Hawks, the Falcons and NASCAR which is HUGE in Georgia.

NYR Hockey Fan is offline  
Old
04-07-2010, 08:19 AM
  #39
TaketheCannoli
RIP
 
TaketheCannoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 8,222
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/ellio...c-at-best.html



So, regardless of the impact on the naming rights agreement for the Phillips Arena, if they really want to concentrate on NBA (and use those 40+ dates for something else) and management/ownership is still messed up (financially), the Thrashers could be on the move next spring.


(There are threads set up for a number of potential destinations. Let's keep this thread focused on Atlanta's future in Georgia, not potential destinations.)
Is this just Friedman taking a piece of common knowledge, the NHL's standard consent agreement, and just pandering to his CBC audience on a slow news day?

TaketheCannoli is offline  
Old
04-07-2010, 08:22 AM
  #40
AtlantaWhaler
Moderator
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
 
AtlantaWhaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 10,392
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuelphMadHatter View Post
Do they really care about the Hawks either?
The Hawks attendance has been going up every year for the last 5 or 6 years. Why? The ownership has actually put a competitive team on the floor. 13,798 in 2004 to 16,408 today.

I believe the same can/will happen with hockey. I think Washington and Pittsburgh fans would agree...

AtlantaWhaler is online now  
Old
04-07-2010, 08:27 AM
  #41
Telfo
THRASHERS
 
Telfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,874
vCash: 500
our problems arent the market itself the problem is just about everything else from the top right on down.

ASG doesnt want to try and find someone to replace DW, they know him and just want to let him run the team. If they did fire him they wouldnt even know where to look, we would probably end up with some NBA GM or something

Telfo is offline  
Old
04-07-2010, 08:33 AM
  #42
NYR Hockey Fan
 
NYR Hockey Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
The Hawks attendance has been going up every year for the last 5 or 6 years. Why? The ownership has actually put a competitive team on the floor. 13,798 in 2004 to 16,408 today.

I believe the same can/will happen with hockey. I think Washington and Pittsburgh fans would agree...
Winning certainly does cure a lot. As Gen. MacArthur said "There is no substitute for victory". However fans won't jump on every bandwagon just because you are winning. They have to love the sport. Hockey is just not popular enough here.

NYR Hockey Fan is offline  
Old
04-07-2010, 08:45 AM
  #43
GetPucksDeep
Registered User
 
GetPucksDeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: the other Duluth
Country: United States
Posts: 3,412
vCash: 500
Ownership alienated the STH base by constantly offering deeply discounted tickets all season long. The result, predictably, was that the STH base left en-masse. Gone. Poof, and attendance went from marginal to abysmal.

Perhaps they've learned their lesson. They are now offering HUGE discounts on some full season ticket locations. The lower bowl end on the attack-once side which is a $70 face ticket is available for a full season at $999. - or $23. a game. We'll see if they can rebuild the STH numbers.

There are plenty of hockey fans in the market. But they aren't going to come out for a mediocre product. As I've said here many, many times, the downtown location is a major drawback for weeknight attendance. That's not going to change. Atlanta is in many ways similar to Los Angeles, a city with a lot of sprawl and bad traffic. And Los Angeles can't even hold on to an NFL team.

GetPucksDeep is offline  
Old
04-07-2010, 09:17 AM
  #44
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 30,410
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
This is extremely hard to do when you're dealing with adults. It's one thing to take someone from Atlanta who had been cheering for a team and turn them into a Thrashers fan... getting a 30 year old from Buffalo who grew up loving the Sabres to just give that up is virtually impossible.
I don't think it's that hard to pull off, provided you're icing a competitive team. Here in Raleigh we have a ton of Hurricanes STHs from Buffalo. The nastiest games of our season are when we host the Sabres, and those transplants switch over to the visiting side on a one-game basis. It gets ugly (see related threads).

But I don't think that would ever have happened if not for our playoff runs. If the Canes were as bad as the Thrashers historically, there wouldn't be much difference in the results off-ice.

Quote:
It will take at least one generation to see homegrown southern hockey fandom. The only people who have grown up on Thrashers hockey are 11 and under.
This I do agree with, we are starting to turn the corner (someone who was 10 in 1999 is now 21 and able to attend some games voluntarily) but it will probably be another 10-20 years before lifelong fans start showing up in the STH numbers.

Quote:
Ownership alienated the STH base by constantly offering deeply discounted tickets all season long. The result, predictably, was that the STH base left en-masse. Gone. Poof, and attendance went from marginal to abysmal.
Scary. If Thrashers management doesn't get their heads out of the sand pronto, they might poison the well for the future.

tarheelhockey is offline  
Old
04-07-2010, 09:58 AM
  #45
Alan Jackson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,333
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Hockey Fan View Post
Winning certainly does cure a lot. As Gen. MacArthur said "There is no substitute for victory". However fans won't jump on every bandwagon just because you are winning. They have to love the sport. Hockey is just not popular enough here.
I agree with you. Winning helps, sure. But it doesn't solve everything. Tampa and Carolina have both won Stanley Cups.

Besides, if your market needs to be a contender every season for the fans to care, well, that's a recipe for disaster. Some teams are going to struggle - that's the nature of sports. You can't count on having a winner every season - although the NHL has tried it's best to make sure that's the case.

Alan Jackson is offline  
Old
04-07-2010, 10:18 AM
  #46
vivianmb
Registered User
 
vivianmb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Jackson View Post
I agree with you. Winning helps, sure. But it doesn't solve everything. Tampa and Carolina have both won Stanley Cups.

Besides, if your market needs to be a contender every season for the fans to care, well, that's a recipe for disaster. Some teams are going to struggle - that's the nature of sports. You can't count on having a winner every season - although the NHL has tried it's best to make sure that's the case.
brings pittsburgh to mind. pre mario ...horrible attendence...bankruptcy etc.
after mario...all is well.
pre sidney crosby ... same as pre mario.what happens when sid leaves?

vivianmb is offline  
Old
04-07-2010, 10:27 AM
  #47
AtlantaWhaler
Moderator
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
 
AtlantaWhaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 10,392
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Jackson View Post
I agree with you. Winning helps, sure. But it doesn't solve everything. Tampa and Carolina have both won Stanley Cups.

Besides, if your market needs to be a contender every season for the fans to care, well, that's a recipe for disaster. Some teams are going to struggle - that's the nature of sports. You can't count on having a winner every season - although the NHL has tried it's best to make sure that's the case.
But, people do forget that the Thrashers have been a disaster from the start of the franchise. It's not like they've been around for a long time and has just now losing fans because of a crappy product.

Atlanta's population has doubled in the last 20 years and continues to grow. The goal of bringing a new NHL franchise here, and any city for that matter, is to capture new fans with a good product on the ice, and continue to grow the interest. Nobody expects to be competitive the first few years, but here we are 10 years into this with zero playoff wins, feuding ownership, and the same GM in place. Again, I argue that the same problems would be had in 90% of the North American markets if a new team started in their cities.

AtlantaWhaler is online now  
Old
04-07-2010, 10:28 AM
  #48
NYR Hockey Fan
 
NYR Hockey Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivianmb View Post
brings pittsburgh to mind. pre mario ...horrible attendence...bankruptcy etc.
after mario...all is well.
pre sidney crosby ... same as pre mario.what happens when sid leaves?
Sidney and Malkin aren't going anywhere. Pittsburgh will be healthy for a long time.

NYR Hockey Fan is offline  
Old
04-07-2010, 10:48 AM
  #49
vivianmb
Registered User
 
vivianmb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Hockey Fan View Post
Sidney and Malkin aren't going anywhere. Pittsburgh will be healthy for a long time.
i hope so.just pointing that out was all

vivianmb is offline  
Old
04-07-2010, 10:51 AM
  #50
hockeydadx2*
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,147
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivianmb View Post
brings pittsburgh to mind. pre mario ...horrible attendence...bankruptcy etc.
after mario...all is well.
pre sidney crosby ... same as pre mario.what happens when sid leaves?
It was way, way more complicated than that.

Do you really think that all it took was for Crosby to show up to, and voila, 150+ straight sellouts and a new building and a season ticket waiting list of 3000 names and incredibly high hockey ratings on television (even for NON-Pens games) etc etc etc. Do you really think all that happened in the space of a few years and we started from scratch??

hockeydadx2* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:38 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.