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The groping, grovelling goalie needs help

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Old
04-07-2010, 05:26 PM
  #76
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Luongo will be fine for the playoffs, personally he hasnt even been playing that bad, hes just not playing like an elite goltender that he is but yet hes still able to get some wins and have some great nights.

He wasnt having a good season at all (by his standards) but he magicaly lifted his game in the Olympics when it matters and won gold. Dont you think we should wait and see if he will do the same for the playoffs, where it matters the most?

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04-07-2010, 05:34 PM
  #77
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Those WCE teams weren't bad defensively. In fact they were top 5 in the league defensively, that's how bad Cloutier was.

There is no comparison between the two whatsoever.

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04-07-2010, 05:39 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by FruityPants3 View Post
Playoffs I've stated several times in this thread is a completely diffeent story.
Which I why I'm really worried. He doesn't look composed in net and his movements are awkward, even when he's playing well. In previous years, when a goal got past him, we saw that it beat him because it was either a good shot or a defensive breakdown.

This season, when he gets beat by a shot, you can tell by his body language that he was at fault for it. I'm not saying that every goal is his fault, but the way he composes himself (almost micro-expressions, but only with his body), it doesn't give any confidence to the team, regardless of who is at fault.

He's just not going to flip a switch and become Luongo of old again.

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04-07-2010, 05:54 PM
  #79
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Which I why I'm really worried. He doesn't look composed in net and his movements are awkward, even when he's playing well. In previous years, when a goal got past him, we saw that it beat him because it was either a good shot or a defensive breakdown.

This season, when he gets beat by a shot, you can tell by his body language that he was at fault for it. I'm not saying that every goal is his fault, but the way he composes himself (almost micro-expressions, but only with his body), it doesn't give any confidence to the team, regardless of who is at fault.

He's just not going to flip a switch and become Luongo of old again.
Team seems to be playing a ton of confidence. It certainly hasn't stopped them from taking lots of chances offensively. They haven't curled up in a ball scared to take chances because they have no confidence in their goaltender.

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04-07-2010, 06:17 PM
  #80
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Your recollection isn't very good. Luongo's only had fluctuations for a couple months.
Uh huh. Apparently you missed the whole pregnancy episode

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04-07-2010, 06:18 PM
  #81
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Those WCE teams weren't bad defensively. In fact they were top 5 in the league defensively, that's how bad Cloutier was.

There is no comparison between the two whatsoever.
Hahah, seriously? Crawford employed one of the poorest systems of team defense in the league. You are telling me a team that rode Bertuzzi and Naslund wasn't giving up a lot of odd man rushes? Or are you really just talking about the defensive group?

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04-07-2010, 06:57 PM
  #82
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Last night's game had the intensity of an exhibition game for the Canucks. It seemed obvious that they were more interested in getting Hank points than winning. They dominated in OT, trying to set up that point for Hank. When the SO happened, they treated it like it was practice. Seriously, how much less effort could Demitra have put into that SO attempt?

I don't think Lu's problems are technical, which is why Ian Clark's goalie consulting hasn't helped him that much. I think it has more to do with Lu concentrating too much on what his teammates are doing instead of concentrating on cutting down angles, etc. Without the burden of the 'C', he did well at the Olympics. Blaming him for the tie goal in the gold medal game just shows the bias of the article writer, I suppose most NHL goalies are supposed to stop 2 on 0's with their all star defenseman Nieds looking 'smooth' in the tsn analysts words, gliding away in the opposite direction from the check. Also, no mention of him stoning Pavelski top corner on that Nieds give-away in OT? If Luongo truly wasn't on his game, USA would have won gold right there, about 30 seconds before the puck makes it's way up the ice to Iggy and Sidney.

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Old
04-07-2010, 07:00 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by FruityPants3 View Post
Hahah, seriously? Crawford employed one of the poorest systems of team defense in the league. You are telling me a team that rode Bertuzzi and Naslund wasn't giving up a lot of odd man rushes? Or are you really just talking about the defensive group?
No, I am talking about the team defense. The Canucks were consistently in the top 5 of the league in shots against, and chances against. Other then the actual WCE line, the Canucks were a very responsible team defensively. Cloutier just continually made them look bad.

It really does boggle my mind how many people didn't realize how bad our goal-tending was.

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04-07-2010, 07:12 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Libor Polasek View Post
I dislike Gallagher, with a passion.

I think the larger issue is Luongo's desire to play every night, against any team, whether they are a bottom feeder or division leader.

Lui has got to come to the realization that he CAN help his team (long term) by taking a night off once in a while, and delivering a confident message to the rest of the team that the guys can win without him. (Isn't this a real leadership quality? To tell your teammates that you believe in them enough that you don't have to carry them 24/7?)

If Roberto is "fresher" in regular season games # 74 and beyond, fantastic.
Yes, that was such a problem in 06/07.

Luongo needs to play a lot, he thrives on it.

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04-07-2010, 07:13 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Awesomesauce View Post
No, I am talking about the team defense. The Canucks were consistently in the top 5 of the league in shots against, and chances against. Other then the actual WCE line, the Canucks were a very responsible team defensively. Cloutier just continually made them look bad.

It really does boggle my mind how many people didn't realize how bad our goal-tending was.
Other than the line that played 1/3 of the game...lol

Cloutier was consistently middle of the pack as far as save % goes (12-18 range) and he was good for about 5 shutouts a year. As I mentioned earlier, he wasn't great or terrible in the regular season, but fairly solid.

It appears his playoff struggles have completely skewed any chance of accurately reflecting on his regular season contribution.

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04-07-2010, 07:13 PM
  #86
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A lot of the Team Canada players have struggled coming out of the Olympics. It's obviously going to be magnified when you're the goaltender but the play of Getzlaf, Perry, and Niedermayer cost the Ducks a playoff spot.

I don't think any of us can truly appreciate what all those guys went through especially Luongo. He stopped 36 shots, won the game 3-2 and he's still taking **** from people for his performance. Could you imagine the venom if he had lost? That's more pressure than you're ever going to get in the middle of a NHL season.

This doesn't excuse his inconsistency but it's a reason. The playoffs are a chance to wipe the slate clean and start over.
He's also allowing way too many awful goals.

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04-07-2010, 07:34 PM
  #87
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He's also allowing way too many awful goals.
One a game, but tbh if he keeps out more than he let's in, that is all I care about.

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04-07-2010, 07:34 PM
  #88
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Unless your name is Martin Brodeur, virtually every goalie has an subpar season. I'd give Luongo till next season to get his act together. We should have a better defense to support him as well.

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04-07-2010, 07:43 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan View Post
One a game, but tbh if he keeps out more than he let's in, that is all I care about.
>.500 SV% is good enough for you?

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04-07-2010, 07:45 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by FruityPants3 View Post
Other than the line that played 1/3 of the game...lol

Cloutier was consistently middle of the pack as far as save % goes (12-18 range) and he was good for about 5 shutouts a year. As I mentioned earlier, he wasn't great or terrible in the regular season, but fairly solid.

It appears his playoff struggles have completely skewed any chance of accurately reflecting on his regular season contribution.
No he wasn't, save % is based off of shots not chances. The Canucks of that era allowed VERY few chances against and not a whole lot of shots against. Cloutier sucked ass, as was made immediately obvious when he left here and couldn't even keep an NHL job much less a starters job.

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04-07-2010, 07:46 PM
  #91
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>.500 SV% is good enough for you?
If Vancouver wins 6-5, and wins 16 games I don't care what his sv% is? Would you?

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04-07-2010, 07:48 PM
  #92
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The first playoff period will be nerve wracking. Bobby Lu will glove some pucks and everything will be dandy from there on.

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04-07-2010, 07:57 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan View Post
If Vancouver wins 6-5, and wins 16 games I don't care what his sv% is? Would you?
I agree with you and knew what you meant, hence the smilie but that's not what you wrote hombre.

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04-07-2010, 08:06 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Awesomesauce View Post
No he wasn't, save % is based off of shots not chances. The Canucks of that era allowed VERY few chances against and not a whole lot of shots against. Cloutier sucked ass, as was made immediately obvious when he left here and couldn't even keep an NHL job much less a starters job.
Really? I can vividly remember the constant two on ones caused by Jovo or Sopel getting caught in deep. How do you figure they gave up very few chances?

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04-07-2010, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Awesomesauce View Post
No he wasn't, save % is based off of shots not chances. The Canucks of that era allowed VERY few chances against and not a whole lot of shots against. Cloutier sucked ass, as was made immediately obvious when he left here and couldn't even keep an NHL job much less a starters job.
Do you have any statistics on scoring chances? They were in the top half of shots against, but that doesn't impact the argument about his save %. In my recollection, they owned a lot of the play, but gave up a lot of high quality chances as a result of very active defenseman.

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04-07-2010, 08:08 PM
  #96
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Uh huh. Apparently you missed the whole pregnancy episode
Or every October.

Or the last 20 games of two seasons ago.

Or....etc...

Very capable goalie, but consistent? Don't think so...

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04-07-2010, 08:28 PM
  #97
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It has nothing to do with the captaincy, and everything to do with Luongo having the lingering effects of shell shock, after the Hawks made a fool out of him in game 6 last year. Even during his hot flashes this year he has looked like a shell of his former self. He has confidence issues, there is no doubt about it.

The Olympics aren't much of an excuse either. He was never in a position to have to steal a game for Canada; he had plenty of goal support in the games that he started. It's not as if he faced a barrage of golden oppourtunities in that gold medal game or anything either.

Luongo just doesn't have the mental toughness to be considered one of the best goalies of all time.

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04-07-2010, 09:38 PM
  #98
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I hope we get Detroit just to shut up so many posters.

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04-07-2010, 10:20 PM
  #99
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It has nothing to do with the captaincy, and everything to do with Luongo having the lingering effects of shell shock, after the Hawks made a fool out of him in game 6 last year. Even during his hot flashes this year he has looked like a shell of his former self. He has confidence issues, there is no doubt about it.

The Olympics aren't much of an excuse either. He was never in a position to have to steal a game for Canada; he had plenty of goal support in the games that he started. It's not as if he faced a barrage of golden oppourtunities in that gold medal game or anything either.

Luongo just doesn't have the mental toughness to be considered one of the best goalies of all time.
I would be shocked if any poster here feels that Luongo is one of the best goaltenders of all time.

I hope he will eventually be considered if he plays to his potential, but there is no one who thinks he is one of the best of all time.

And I disagree about the Olympics. That was the single greatest tournament of all time. To belittle, which you did, his contribution is a slap in the face of all who watched the tournament. His save off Demitra in the semi final, and Pavelski in the final were 2 incredible saves, ones few goalies can make. The level of competition in that tournament is so far superior to the NHL playoffs that him bearing down in crunch time does give me faith in his ability to turn it on.

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04-07-2010, 10:44 PM
  #100
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Gallagher's point was that the defence, as it stands, is not able enough, causing Luongo to overplay. This becomes very evident with the loss of even a minor player like O'Brien. I would have liked to see Gillis cash in some trading chips for defensive depth at the deadline and I guess Alberts is that. Covering the defence with a lot of offence is a good idea if it can be managed, but the Sedins tend to struggle against tight checking. Unless Vignault has a Bowman-like post season the loss of Johnson, Mitchell and Schnieder has handicapped the team severely.

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