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The groping, grovelling goalie needs help

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Old
04-07-2010, 11:16 PM
  #101
alternate
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It's been well documented what a stickler Lu is about his pre-game ritual. Personally, I think it's time he changed it up.

how many times have we been down 1-0 this season, especially withing the first 5 minutes or so? I'd guess at least 60, but that's probably a bit conservative. and when he does let in an early goal, it really seems to rattle him a lot of the time.

not saying every early goal is Lu's fault, but there's a big difference in his play a given night when he comes up with a big save early rather than giving up an early goal. maybe there's something pregame he can do differently that would get him just that little bit more focused at the drop of the puck.

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04-07-2010, 11:23 PM
  #102
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Am I the only one who thought that midway through the 3rd, Luongo seemed to re-find his game? He started letting the shot come to him and aside from one kick save back into the slot, he looked much more in control. Not saying he's definitely turned the corner or anything but it looked promising.

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04-07-2010, 11:59 PM
  #103
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Am I the only one who thought that midway through the 3rd, Luongo seemed to re-find his game? He started letting the shot come to him and aside from one kick save back into the slot, he looked much more in control. Not saying he's definitely turned the corner or anything but it looked promising.
I kind of agree. Not sure if its "re-finding" his game, but he definitely looked better. It seemed that he made a conscious decision to challange again.

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04-08-2010, 02:16 AM
  #104
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how many times have we been down 1-0 this season, especially withing the first 5 minutes or so? I'd guess at least 60, but that's probably a bit conservative. and when he does let in an early goal, it really seems to rattle him a lot of the time.
Not even close. The Canucks have given up the 1st goal in 42 of their 80 games (52.5% of the time). Compare that to the other current playoff teams:

Chicago: 26
San Jose: 43
Phoenix: 38
Detroit: 42
LA: 34
Nashville: 47
Colorado: 41

Washington: 30
New Jersey: 36
Buffalo: 41
Pittsburgh: 40
Ottawa: 39
Montreal: 42
Philadelphia: 32
Boston: 40

Other than Chicago, the Canucks are in line with most other teams. The fact is, that most teams are going to give up the 1st goal roughly 50% of the time, and the Canucks are no different. Especially note the teams such as Phoenix, Buffalo, New Jersey, and Detroit who are marveled for their goaltenders' performances this season, they're all right around where the Canucks are in terms of scoring/trailing 1st.

See (and I'm not picking on you), this is why people have problems with others basing their strong opinions on muddled memories and impressions rather than facts. If you honestly thought Luongo gave up the 1st goal 60 times (75% of the team's games this season), of course you'd think he's struggled all season. But your impression wouldn't be based on reality. If you're going to criticize someone for something, at least base it in reality and not fantasy.

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04-08-2010, 02:54 AM
  #105
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The Olympics aren't much of an excuse either. He was never in a position to have to steal a game for Canada; he had plenty of goal support in the games that he started. It's not as if he faced a barrage of golden oppourtunities in that gold medal game or anything either.
This is a ridiculous statement. In the biggest game of his career he outplayed the guy who is most likely going to win the Vezina this year. I worry about Luongo but his play at the Olympics was extremely good. If he can play at that level for the playoffs the Canucks will do very well.

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04-08-2010, 03:13 AM
  #106
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Do you have any statistics on scoring chances? They were in the top half of shots against, but that doesn't impact the argument about his save %. In my recollection, they owned a lot of the play, but gave up a lot of high quality chances as a result of very active defenseman.
Honestly I wouldn't even know where to go to get those stats. I do remember quite well watching a hockey show on TSN during the WCE years in which they threw up a graphic which had the Canucks as 3rd best in the league for scoring chances against, and 5th in the league for shots against. They were specifically discussing the Canucks goal tending situation. I was kind of blown away by it, which was probably why it stuck in my head so well.

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04-08-2010, 03:28 AM
  #107
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It has nothing to do with the captaincy, and everything to do with Luongo having the lingering effects of shell shock, after the Hawks made a fool out of him in game 6 last year. Even during his hot flashes this year he has looked like a shell of his former self. He has confidence issues, there is no doubt about it.

The Olympics aren't much of an excuse either. He was never in a position to have to steal a game for Canada; he had plenty of goal support in the games that he started. It's not as if he faced a barrage of golden oppourtunities in that gold medal game or anything either.

Luongo just doesn't have the mental toughness to be considered one of the best goalies of all time.
The shellshock thing is pretty unsubstantiated. His recent numbers (.912), though worse, are not that much worse than his career numbers (and a lot of that are the 8 goals from the Kings game). He seems more variable but I wouldn't write him off.

1999-00 NYI 24 .904
2000-01 FLA 47 .920
2001-02 FLA 58 .915
2002-03 FLA 65 .918
2003-04 FLA 72 .931
2005-06 FLA 75 .914
2006-07 VAN 76 .921
2007-08 VAN 73 .917
2008-09 VAN 54 .920
2009-10 VAN 67 .912

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04-08-2010, 03:40 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by FruityPants3 View Post
Completely disagree. Cloutier was very consistent and strong in the regular season.
Cloutier also had moments where you thought, GET RID OF HIM, but the team outscored what he let in.

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04-08-2010, 03:47 AM
  #109
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People have a short memory. Cloutier was fine in the regular season and horrendous in the playoffs - he folded like a cheap tent. Any shot from any distance at whatever speed from all possible angles was liable to go in. As a fan, it was nerve-wracking to say the least.

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04-08-2010, 04:12 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
See (and I'm not picking on you), this is why people have problems with others basing their strong opinions on muddled memories and impressions rather than facts. If you honestly thought Luongo gave up the 1st goal 60 times (75% of the team's games this season), of course you'd think he's struggled all season. But your impression wouldn't be based on reality. If you're going to criticize someone for something, at least base it in reality and not fantasy.
no, I really didn't think it was 60 times, and I'm not shocked that we're more or less in line with other teams on the season as a whole. but there was a long consecutive stretch--iirc double digit games--where we let up the first goal. and many of those were early, within the first 5 minutes.

maybe it's just a perspective thing, but it does seem to me we're giving up more early goals than I remember seeing in past years. Lu's also got a bad habit of giving up goals late in periods.

early goals and goals late in periods on a consistent basis scream concentration issues to me. that's not exactly a news flash, everyone agrees Lu's problems are a mental thing, not a physical one. so the point still stands, Lu's big on his routine, so maybe making some changes in his routine will help him enter games more focused.

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04-08-2010, 11:15 AM
  #111
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no, I really didn't think it was 60 times, and I'm not shocked that we're more or less in line with other teams on the season as a whole. but there was a long consecutive stretch--iirc double digit games--where we let up the first goal. and many of those were early, within the first 5 minutes.

maybe it's just a perspective thing, but it does seem to me we're giving up more early goals than I remember seeing in past years. Lu's also got a bad habit of giving up goals late in periods.

early goals and goals late in periods on a consistent basis scream concentration issues to me. that's not exactly a news flash, everyone agrees Lu's problems are a mental thing, not a physical one. so the point still stands, Lu's big on his routine, so maybe making some changes in his routine will help him enter games more focused.
I think it's more that you see it happen a few times and focus on it instead of just thinking that it happens to every team and every goalie over the course of a season.

The Canucks are 31-1 when leading after 2 periods and 25-4-1 when leading after the first period. Even in a poor season, if you get Luongo the lead, he's extremely tough to beat.

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04-08-2010, 01:36 PM
  #112
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The Canucks are 31-1 when leading after 2 periods and 25-4-1 when leading after the first period. Even in a poor season, if you get Luongo the lead, he's extremely tough to beat.
13 teams - basically half the league - have blown 1 or fewer third period leads. It's pretty darn even out there, except for a couple of outliers.

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04-08-2010, 01:37 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Not even close. The Canucks have given up the 1st goal in 42 of their 80 games (52.5% of the time). Compare that to the other current playoff teams:

Chicago: 26
San Jose: 43
Phoenix: 38
Detroit: 42
LA: 34
Nashville: 47
Colorado: 41

Washington: 30
New Jersey: 36
Buffalo: 41
Pittsburgh: 40
Ottawa: 39
Montreal: 42
Philadelphia: 32
Boston: 40

Other than Chicago, the Canucks are in line with most other teams. The fact is, that most teams are going to give up the 1st goal roughly 50% of the time, and the Canucks are no different. Especially note the teams such as Phoenix, Buffalo, New Jersey, and Detroit who are marveled for their goaltenders' performances this season, they're all right around where the Canucks are in terms of scoring/trailing 1st.

See (and I'm not picking on you), this is why people have problems with others basing their strong opinions on muddled memories and impressions rather than facts. If you honestly thought Luongo gave up the 1st goal 60 times (75% of the team's games this season), of course you'd think he's struggled all season. But your impression wouldn't be based on reality. If you're going to criticize someone for something, at least base it in reality and not fantasy.
How many of those 1st goals surrendered were by Raycroft?

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04-08-2010, 01:48 PM
  #114
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Honestly I wouldn't even know where to go to get those stats. I do remember quite well watching a hockey show on TSN during the WCE years in which they threw up a graphic which had the Canucks as 3rd best in the league for scoring chances against, and 5th in the league for shots against. They were specifically discussing the Canucks goal tending situation. I was kind of blown away by it, which was probably why it stuck in my head so well.
On the flipside, I was living in Edmonton during most of the WCE era and drinking heavily (celebratory, of course) during most Canucks games, so I guess I'll have to go with your recollection.

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04-08-2010, 01:49 PM
  #115
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People have a short memory. Cloutier was fine in the regular season and horrendous in the playoffs - he folded like a cheap tent. Any shot from any distance at whatever speed from all possible angles was liable to go in. As a fan, it was nerve-wracking to say the least.
Eh? I've said that several times throughout this thread.

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04-08-2010, 02:28 PM
  #116
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How many of those 1st goals surrendered were by Raycroft?
6 times in 13 starts. The Canucks did score the first goals in games where Raycroft was shelled by Anaheim and Carolina, though.

1 times was also by Cory Schneider in his 1 start.

So the Canucks backups are running at 50% in giving up the first goal of the game in their starts.

So no matter who is in the net, the Canucks give up the first goal about half the time.

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04-08-2010, 02:36 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
6 times in 13 starts. The Canucks did score the first goals in games where Raycroft was shelled by Anaheim and Carolina, though.

1 times was also by Cory Schneider in his 1 start.

So the Canucks backups are running at 50% in giving up the first goal of the game in their starts.

So no matter who is in the net, the Canucks give up the first goal about half the time.
I'd be curious to see Luongo's save percentage on the 1st 1-3 shots he faces in a game. Could be perception but he doesn't seem to fare very well early in games.

You'd think a team that scores the 2nd most goals in the league in first periods wouldn't surrender the first goal 53% of the time.

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