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Guy Boucher named AHL coach of the year

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Old
04-07-2010, 07:07 PM
  #51
Rgolt
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As he has a degree is sports psychology and knows how to put players in the proper situations,
i feel like he would work wonders on Ak, get him motivated. Guy would be perfect for him

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04-07-2010, 07:12 PM
  #52
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I doubt Montreal would block him from talking. It just doesn't happen often. If the Habs are approached they will let him talk.

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04-07-2010, 07:45 PM
  #53
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I think you guys underrate just how big a factor the "old boys club" plays when it comes to teams hiring new coaches and GMs around the league. How come nobody snapped up Bruce Boudreau after he lead the Bears to back-to-back finals appearances (including a championship)?

I'm not going to say it isn't a possibility and it would suck if it happened, but it's not something I would lose sleep over....

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04-07-2010, 07:56 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Rgolt View Post
As he has a degree is sports psychology and knows how to put players in the proper situations,
i feel like he would work wonders on Ak, get him motivated. Guy would be perfect for him
I would have to agree with you about AK, although I don't expect to see Boucher up fast enough to work on AK before he's dealt somewhere. (and AK is my favorite player)

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04-07-2010, 07:59 PM
  #55
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Martin - 1,098 games coached, 517 wins, .552 winning% (starting on really baaad teams), 3Division Championships

Boucher 0 games coached in the NHL

Not to say Boucher isn't going to be a good coach one day but to say Gautier would "blunder" in not firing Martin to keep Boucher is a little too bold a statement for my liking. Martin has had a great career so far and not taking into consideration his experience and acomplishments is a mistake imo.

Boucher will get his chance, in time. I think we need to take things one step at a time as the AHL and NHL player mentality is VERY different and vets don't always respond to rookie coaches. Like our prospects, he should get more experience and hone his skills in the AHL and step up when he's ready.

I also wouldn't mind him going to another team right now in the NHL and make his mistakes there rather then with us. It seemed to work well for Vigneault, Julien, Lemaire etc. Then once he's done learning, we can hire him to come back.

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04-07-2010, 08:03 PM
  #56
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Boucher chose to come work for the habs, in part because of the liberty and resources the organisation gave him. Not saying that he couldn't find something similar elsewhere, but my feeling is that guys like Boucher aren't the kind to switch team after only one year and derail from their career plan. He's doing well in Hamilton and I doubt he feel himself ready for the big leagues.

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04-07-2010, 08:20 PM
  #57
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If the Habs fire Martin this year would they have 4 coaches on the payroll? Because that will never happen, even 3 must be hard to swallow, I don't care if you're Exxon, you don't want that many people making big money on the books.

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04-07-2010, 08:26 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
If teams are interested in him, they can ask Montreal to speak with him.

If that's the case, I highly doubt that Habs management will refuse to allow him to look for work in the NHL.
It happened many times that teams have refused.

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04-07-2010, 08:31 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Classified View Post
If the Habs fire Martin this year would they have 4 coaches on the payroll? Because that will never happen, even 3 must be hard to swallow, I don't care if you're Exxon, you don't want that many people making big money on the books.
we would have him and Carbo. Well I suppose we'd also have Boucher, but who is the 4th?

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04-07-2010, 08:42 PM
  #60
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If that happens there's not much Gauthier can do about it. I believe it's an unwritten rule a team can't refuse to let their AHL personnel speak with other teams for a NHL job.

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04-07-2010, 08:57 PM
  #61
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Not to say Boucher isn't going to be a good coach one day but to say Gautier would "blunder" in not firing Martin to keep Boucher is a little too bold a statement for my liking. Martin has had a great career so far and not taking into consideration his experience and acomplishments is a mistake imo.
The problem with this is that his accomplishments mean little to the Habs. He's been a bust in Montreal and has only been saved by fantastic goaltending and the pathetic weakness of the Eastern conference, but he's having the team underperform 5-on-5 and that's a capital sin for a coach. The Habs won't make any progress regardless of any personnel moves until there's a change in coaching philosophy.

I don't think Martin will be fired at the end of this year (sadly, this means the Habs will be a bubble team at best next year) and I think they have a year's grace with Boucher as I don't see another team making a move. If he excels next year, however, the Habs have to hire him or lose him. Unless Martin really turns things around, which I doubt, it should be a no-brainer, but I worry that Martin will be allowed to overstay his welcome more than he already has.

Basically, keeping their current coach is already a suboptimal decision, but I expect he has enough excuses and credit with the org to survive another year; in any case, there's little sense in replacing him for a one-year interim coach and it's probably too early to bring Boucher up. After next season is when Boucher must be called up, unless there's a massive (and unlikely) turnaround in the quality of Martin's coaching.

If the Habs manage to fall under the ridiculously low playoff bar, however, all bets are off.

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04-07-2010, 09:03 PM
  #62
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we would have him and Carbo. Well I suppose we'd also have Boucher, but who is the 4th?
Sorry, it was more of a question than a statement, I thought I read that it would be 4.

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04-07-2010, 09:16 PM
  #63
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If the Habs fire Martin this year would they have 4 coaches on the payroll? Because that will never happen, even 3 must be hard to swallow, I don't care if you're Exxon, you don't want that many people making big money on the books.
Martin, Carbo... who else?

Therrien and Julien both got jobs. Once they take a new job, their old contract is ripped up.

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04-07-2010, 09:26 PM
  #64
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Boucher is being groomed as our next coach, Gauthier can't be so blind as to not see that.

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04-07-2010, 09:30 PM
  #65
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It happened many times that teams have refused.
Can you name one time this occured - just one?

So, if an AHL coach (like Claude Julian when he was under contract to the Oilres organization) received an offer to coach an NHL Club (like the Habs) - you think many teams would hold the coach back?

Personally, I think such a denial would be the exception to the rule.

Think about this: Any NHL team that would refuse to release a coach from a minor league contract in order to advance his career would likely have a real tough time either finding minor league coaches for their organization or finding coaches who would be willing to sign a long term contract with their organization - at least at the minor league level!


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04-07-2010, 09:32 PM
  #66
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The problem with this is that his accomplishments mean little to the Habs. He's been a bust in Montreal and has only been saved by fantastic goaltending and the pathetic weakness of the Eastern conference, but he's having the team underperform 5-on-5 and that's a capital sin for a coach. The Habs won't make any progress regardless of any personnel moves until there's a change in coaching philosophy.

I don't think Martin will be fired at the end of this year (sadly, this means the Habs will be a bubble team at best next year) and I think they have a year's grace with Boucher as I don't see another team making a move. If he excels next year, however, the Habs have to hire him or lose him. Unless Martin really turns things around, which I doubt, it should be a no-brainer, but I worry that Martin will be allowed to overstay his welcome more than he already has.

Basically, keeping their current coach is already a suboptimal decision, but I expect he has enough excuses and credit with the org to survive another year; in any case, there's little sense in replacing him for a one-year interim coach and it's probably too early to bring Boucher up. After next season is when Boucher must be called up, unless there's a massive (and unlikely) turnaround in the quality of Martin's coaching.

If the Habs manage to fall under the ridiculously low playoff bar, however, all bets are off.
Montreal was a team basically nobody picked to make the playoffs. Then, we received a ridiculous number of injuries that would have crippled any team. Then, he takes us to 6th place, and you want him fired? He hasn't even had a full roster for more than 2 weeks and you want to blame everything on the coach? Give me a break.

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04-07-2010, 09:47 PM
  #67
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So..........Do you think there may be any chance that Boucher's agent was smarter that say.....you?

And maybe, just maybe, Boucher's agent insisted on having a clause in his contract allowing Boucher to be released from his AHL contract if an NHL team makes an offer?

I know these concepts are difficult for at least some fans to grasp - but most agents are smarter that most fans! Talk about brain farts!


Yeah, your assumptions vs Boucher's own words and actions.

I heard they have razor blades at discount at Jean Coutu this week, you should check that up, seems right up your ally.

BTW, Lever had to be given permission to talk to other teams. It's the same with any management position in the NHL.

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04-07-2010, 09:48 PM
  #68
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Boucher has an agreement signed by Gainey. Not sure what Gauthier can do about it....

My hope is that while you can't retain a guy from a NHL coaching job, IF THAT'S WHAT HE WANTS, is that the contract allows the Habs to upgrade him in the NHL when/if he has a contract offer, even if it's only for an assistant job.

Now, while I would REALLY feel that it would be a terrible blow to this organization, people who know Martin Raymond knows that he's a fine candidate to take the lead if needed. Might not be Boucher, but he's fine nonetheless.

Having said that, we have to do everything we can to retain Boucher.

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04-07-2010, 09:52 PM
  #69
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Boucher has an agreement signed by Gainey. Not sure what Gauthier can do about it....

My hope is that while you can't retain a guy from a NHL coaching job, IF THAT'S WHAT HE WANTS, is that the contract allows the Habs to upgrade him in the NHL when/if he has a contract offer, even if it's only for an assistant job.

Now, while I would REALLY feel that it would be a terrible blow to this organization, people who know Martin Raymond knows that he's a fine candidate to take the lead if needed. Might not be Boucher, but he's fine nonetheless.

Having said that, we have to do everything we can to retain Boucher.
I see it this way.... if a team comes calling, you have to either offer him the NHL job yourself or let them talk. If you cannot do the former, you cannot do the later.

Once that's done though, anything is fair. Say Columbus offered him the job? Montreal can do many things. Offer him an Assistant Job... give him some kind of "in two years Martin will retire and the job is yours if you're a good soldier" offer, etc.

What you cannot do is actively block his career. Give him alternatives, but don't hold him hostage.

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04-07-2010, 09:59 PM
  #70
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Yeah, your assumptions vs Boucher's own words and actions.

I heard they have razor blades at discount at Jean Coutu this week, you should check that up, seems right up your ally.

BTW, Lever had to be given permission to talk to other teams. It's the same with any management position in the NHL.

So let me understand this. Lever was fired by the Habs organization because they wanted Boucher as he was considered a better developer of players - but Lever had to get Habs permission to talk to other clubs.

Dude - in case some one forgot to tell you.....when you get fired - you can look for a job anyehere you want - no permission required - at least in Canada or the USA!

See link re: Lever firing (assuming you can read): http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/...abs_ahl_staff/

So.........you made a fool of yourself - you'll get over it!


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04-07-2010, 10:03 PM
  #71
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You have either just started following pro hockey (and for that matter pro sports) or you are addicted to kool-aid.
Neither, bub.

I read what Boucher said, saw what he did. And for sure, someone like you will just leave that aside. I mean, what Boucher says and does has nothing to do with what he'll do in the future, right?

Quote:
If an NHL team offers Boucher a head coaching position, he's gone....
THEY CAN'T OFFER HIM ANYTHING. They have to go through the Habs, Habs can refuse if they know they have a position for him. Then the only indicator remains Boucher's own words and actions. He got interest from NHL and AHL teams before he signed with the Habs. He says he's not ready for the NHL and he said that the more time he spends there THE BETTER.


Quote:
and he'll be signing that contract as quickly as he can. Boucher's a career coach and a head coaching gig in the NHL is his goal/dream.
Yet, in his own words he says he needs as much seasoning as possible at a level before even thinking of going up and that doing the opposite is a big mistake. He knows he will eventually replace Martin, why would he need to jump on anything when he knows his path is already ahead with the organization he chose to go with?

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Sure the Habs would be his top choice of all NHL teams but the current Habs coach (JM) is in year one of a four year contract (Habs are also still paying Carbo for a couple of years).
OMG we need to pay Carbo!!! There must be a new salary cap on management I haven't heard of yet!!! Yet again, I have to take your assumptions as better than Boucher's own words?? He says he needs to stay there as much as possible to become as best as possible before even thinking of going up. Doesn't it register as completely contradictory to your assumption?

Quote:
Boucher isn't going to pass up on his lifelong dream just to wait around for an indefinite number of years and see what happens.
You say indifinite, yet you just said Martin has 3 years left after this season. That's not indifinite. You contradict yourself. And again, he won't PASS on his lifelong dream, as he knows he will get his chance with the Habs. Again, your argument is an assumption, a faulty one at that. Yet I've presented quotes from him that are contradictory to your assumptions.


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The Habs won't stand in his way of fulfilling his NHL dream....especially when they already have JM signed for 4 years.
What a doof. You know Martin can easily go with 3-2-1 years remaining on his contract, and even then Boucher FROM HIS OWN WORDS isn't in any hurry to come up.

I wish my lawn was like you, I'd never have to cut it.

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Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
So let me understand this. Lever was fired by the Habs organization because they wanted Boucher as he was considered a better developer of players - but Lever had to get Habs permission to talk to other clubs.

Dude - in case some one forgot to tell you.....when you get fired - you can look for a job anyehere you want - no permission required - at least in Canada or the USA!

See link re: Lever firing (assuming you can read): http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/...abs_ahl_staff/

So.........you made a fool of yourself - you'll get over it!

You made a fool of your own self, as Lever was given permission to talk to other clubs before he was told his contract wouldn't be renewed, so he could immediatly take steps to find another job if he was interested in anything elsewhere. His contract ran out on July 1st when they told him the week before that it wouldn't be renewed.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...avec-le-ch.php

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Mais le CH avait donné une indication de ses intentions avant même l'embauche de Jacques Martin à la barre du Canadien car il avait donné à Lever l'autorisation d'offrir ses services aux autres équipes de la LNH.
So who's the fool, fool? It happened before he was told his contract wouldn't be renewed. If my memory serves me right, it was about a month or two before July.

And here's another doosy regarding Boucher's intentions :

Quote:
Depuis plusieurs semaines, le nom de Guy Boucher est lié à l'organisation du Canadien. Ce dernier s'est toutefois contenté de répéter, au terme de la Coupe Memorial, qu'il avait plusieurs offres sur la table.
He had many offers on the table. He chose Montreal.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 04-08-2010 at 05:44 PM. Reason: Merge
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Old
04-07-2010, 10:21 PM
  #72
Lucius
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He had many offers on the table. He chose Montreal.
One thing worth noting: He chose Montreal knowing full well we were about to hire a new NHL coach and it wasn't him.

IE: He knew he'd have to wait a few years when he signed up. If he was hell bent on being in the NHL tomorrow, he'd have more likely picked a team with a stronger AHL team (ours wasn't that good before him) or one with a weaker head coach.

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04-07-2010, 10:50 PM
  #73
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[QUOTE=[B]Ozymandias[/B];24996896]You made a fool of your own self, as Lever was given permission to talk to other clubs before he was told his contract wouldn't be renewed, so he could immediatly take steps to find another job if he was interested in anything elsewhere. His contract ran out on July 1st when they told him the week before that it wouldn't be renewed.



Wrong again!

Since you either cannot read or cannot access the article here it is:


Habs fire AHL coaching staff

June 22, 2009 Text Size: S M L Print RSSTHE CANADIAN PRESS

HAMILTON -- The Hamilton Bulldogs will have a new coaching staff next season.

It was reported Monday that Don Lever, the American Hockey League franchise's longest-serving head coach, and his assistant Ron Wilson were fired by the NHL parent club Montreal Canadiens last week.

Neither were given any reason for their dismissal.

Montreal general manager Bob Gainey phoned them both and said "the organization is going in a different direction."

Lever said he would like to have at least been given a reason for his dismissal.

"I'm very disappointed," said Lever, who was hired in 2005. "Somewhere along the line, I must have done something wrong, but they didn't tell me what it was.

So again you make a fool of yourself!

There doesn't seem to be many people on this post who agree with you!

But look at it this way......because most people use a board name different from their real name - no one on this site likely knows who you really are. And, people who know your real identity likely won't want to acknowledge knowing you anyway. So don't worry about it.


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04-07-2010, 10:59 PM
  #74
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i see them give him a raise to keep him happy for another 2 yrs

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04-07-2010, 11:06 PM
  #75
Ozymandias
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Wrong again!
And Yaddi-yaddi-yada
What are you arguing about??? You said I was wrong that the Habs gave Lever permission. THEY DID. It is written in the article. And it was before the Habs hired Martin, before Lever was told his contract wouldn't be renewed. His contract was ending on July 1st, so call it what you want, like the media did. The basic fact remains that his contract wasn't terminated as it was ending just a week after that.

As for the permission the Habs gave to Lever, it happened in May 2009 (ha, I was right, my memory did serve me well, unlike yourself who is only content with assumptions), a month before Lever was told he wouldn't be back :

http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/s...tml?id=1609135

Quote:
Published: Tuesday, May 19, 2009

That has led to some speculation that Don Lever will continue with the Canadiens in some role. Lever has indicated that he would like to be considered for the vacant head coaching job in Montreal but he's no better than a longshot because he doesn't speak French. Lever has also been given permission to discuss employment with other organizations which indicates the Canadiens have no firm plans for him.
These are the facts :

May 19th : Lever given permission to talk to other teams

June 22nd : Lever fired AKA contract will not be renewed, 9 days before his contract was up, ONE WEEK AFTER THE OPTIONAL YEAR ON BOTH THEIR CONTRACTS RAN OUT.

You can keep believing what you wish, but so far all you've shown is your inability to cope with reality. You can say whatever you wish about me, it won't stop intelligent people to see the reality of the situation, and then I have nothing to worry about. You seem pretty uptight, you might wanna try some yoga. Do emos yoga?

Just for levity :

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...avec-le-ch.php

Quote:
22 juin 2009
L'adjoint de Lever à Hamilton, Ron Wilson, a lui aussi été congédié par téléphone, selon le Hamilton Spectator.

Le Canadien détenait une option sur les services des deux hommes jusqu'au 15 juin.
they didn't renew on the option, get a clue

You were first arguing that Lever didn't get permission, that the permission was when he got "fired".

Now that you see that you are wrong, you wanna play with the semantics of being "fired"???

Stay asleep poor chap.

You made a total joke of yourself.

Just so you don't twist this into something else, here's your initial absurd conclusion :

Quote:
Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
So let me understand this. Lever was fired by the Habs organization because they wanted Boucher as he was considered a better developer of players - but Lever had to get Habs permission to talk to other clubs.

Dude - in case some one forgot to tell you.....when you get fired - you can look for a job anyehere you want - no permission required - at least in Canada or the USA!

See link re: Lever firing (assuming you can read): http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/...abs_ahl_staff/

So.........you made a fool of yourself - you'll get over it!

It was never about Lever getting fired. I said Lever was given permission, and he was as proven by the National Post of May 19th 2009, a month before he got fired/didn't get renewed.

So again, who's the fool, fool?


Last edited by Ozymandias: 04-07-2010 at 11:33 PM.
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