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Old
04-08-2010, 11:12 AM
  #76
Jordan
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I'm very, very weary of hiring coaches straight from junior. It's a much different game, requiring different coaching approaches. Guys who are tremendous junior coaches usually don't pan out well in the bigs. I'm talking guys like Kilrea, Hartsburg, even Brent Sutter.

I'd go looking at guys in the AHL before I ever considered a junior coach.

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04-08-2010, 11:13 AM
  #77
Federko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMapleDawg View Post
Are people still defending Wilson?!

HE COULDN'T EVEN WIN WITH THE ****IN' SAN JOSE SHARKS!

Don't give me the Team USA bull****. The team did well because they were an excellent team.

He's trash! "I have 500 wins RAH RAH RAH!"

How many Cups there Wilson?
Let's make a few things clear:

-Last year the majority of you were riding the Wilson coat tails when the team finished much higher than expected. This year, with a much worse team, you are calling for his head. I understand some of the reasons and the way of thinking... That said, please stop using the following reasons or excuses:

-San Jose still can't win anything. I think it's more than Wilson being the problem there. They stripped Marleau of the "C" and picked up Danny Heatly on top of it all. So PLEASE stop using this as an excuse.

-The Anaheim Might Ducks of 94/95 were an expansion team...Or in the league for a few years? Are you kidding me? Paul Kariya only played 47 games that year and led the team with 18 goals? Maybe the amazing PP and PK specialists like Patrik Carnback, Peter Douris, Todd Krygier or Robert Dirk really under played that year? YOU'VE NEVER HEARD those names and they were full time Ducks that year.
Guy Hebert was the goalie? The team was a joke....So PLEASE STOP using this as an example

-Besides coaches from Detroit or New Jersey which available coaches have won any stanley cups? Joel Quenville and Dave Tippet seam to be trendy...or Bodreau in Washington. Doesn't look like they've won multiple or any cups. So Please stop using that as an exmaple

In Closing .... please understand that our team has no real offensive skill outside Kessel... We just traded a majority of the slack (blue and white disease) off this team. We are still a few years away. The Loosing will not be as bad next year..but it might possibly be just as bad--with or without Wilson. Then what will you say ?

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Old
04-08-2010, 11:20 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Shanty View Post
But this is my point! When you don't have the players to play the style you want, you have to change something. Is it not easier for one man to change his ideas than 18 guys to change the way they play hockey?
I'm not convinced a coaching change will do anything.

Coaching changes are good when you have a good team that is sucking. It seems to light a fire under the ***** of your players.

But our team just sucks.

Wilson will be gone after this team is good on paper and not competing. Right now we suck on paper and the results are showing that we suck on the ice too.

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04-08-2010, 11:23 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by BlueMapleDawg View Post
Don't give me the Team USA bull****. The team did well because they were an excellent team.
No one picked Team USA to do anything at the Olympics. Russia, Sweden and Finland were all considered to be better teams and yet the USA made it all the way to the end.

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04-08-2010, 11:29 AM
  #80
Baba Ganoush
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i tend to agree with the OP these days. i spent a lot of time defending Wilson over the past i don`t know how long, putting most of the blame on the players rather than him...but some of the decisions he has made with regards to time-outs, putting certain lines on at certain times, specialty teams (though a lot of blame would go to the assistant coach), and just strange decisions in general have got me thinking.

i still can`t say a whole lot though, because i`m still not fully convinced it`s him and not the players....but i am starting to wonder anyways.

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Old
04-08-2010, 11:44 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Baba Ganoush View Post
i tend to agree with the OP these days. i spent a lot of time defending Wilson over the past i don`t know how long, putting most of the blame on the players rather than him...but some of the decisions he has made with regards to time-outs, putting certain lines on at certain times, specialty teams (though a lot of blame would go to the assistant coach), and just strange decisions in general have got me thinking.

i still can`t say a whole lot though, because i`m still not fully convinced it`s him and not the players....but i am starting to wonder anyways.
You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****. Wilson at the very least needs a chance to prove what he can do with at least a semi-talented roster.

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04-08-2010, 11:57 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****. Wilson at the very least needs a chance to prove what he can do with at least a semi-talented roster.
just look at our PP, we have Kaberle, Phaneuf, Kessel,Bozak, before the trade deadline, we had Stempniak, hagman, how he managed to coach these guys to the dead last of the league is beyond me

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04-08-2010, 12:00 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by maplelives View Post
just look at our PP, we have Kaberle, Phaneuf, Kessel,Bozak, before the trade deadline, we had Stempniak, hagman, how he managed to coach these guys to the dead last of the league is beyond me
Other than Kessel, Phaneuf & Kaberle, those guys aren't guys who should be on a #1 PP unit. Let's face it, Kaberle has pretty well mailed it in and Phaneuf is being double-teamed because they know Kaberle won't shoot. Bozak works hard, but he's not a guy you can rely on to score on the PP.

I don't think Kessel has quite figured out what he needs to do to score on the powerplay. He's a little too afraid to go to the dirty areas and you saw the coaches trying to send him that message the other night when they sent Orr out on the PP instead of Kessel.

You can blame Kessel not scoring on the PP on Wilson, but if Kessel won't do the things you need to score, Wilson can scream at him until he's blue in the face, Kessel still isn't going to score.

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Old
04-08-2010, 12:00 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Most people have no clue what traits qualify you as a good coach or not.
Doesn't Hunter own the Knights? I imagine he's quite happy where he is.

I believe a decision on Wilson will be made by US Thanksgiving, barring a start like this year.
Only way you get Hunter is you make him the GM and the coach. Only way I see him coming to TO. Although he and Burke are kind of on the same wave length.

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Old
04-08-2010, 12:12 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
Other than Kessel, Phaneuf & Kaberle, those guys aren't guys who should be on a #1 PP unit. Let's face it, Kaberle has pretty well mailed it in and Phaneuf is being double-teamed because they know Kaberle won't shoot. Bozak works hard, but he's not a guy you can rely on to score on the PP.

I don't think Kessel has quite figured out what he needs to do to score on the powerplay. He's a little too afraid to go to the dirty areas and you saw the coaches trying to send him that message the other night when they sent Orr out on the PP instead of Kessel.

You can blame Kessel not scoring on the PP on Wilson, but if Kessel won't do the things you need to score, Wilson can scream at him until he's blue in the face, Kessel still isn't going to score.
That's the problem, RW can't make players better, he clearly doesn't know how to motivate players.

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04-08-2010, 12:15 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by maplelives View Post
That's the problem, RW can't make players better, he clearly doesn't know how to motivate players.
So a coach should have the ability to make his players more talented? The thing with young players is that they are inconsistent. They have growing pains. So while kids like Stalberg, Bozak, Kulemin etc. are all players who could be very good, they're going to have stretches where they don't score.

When you put a bunch of kids on the powerplay, you better expect some struggles.

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Old
04-08-2010, 12:22 PM
  #87
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I don't think Wilson should be let go yet, But here's a name i'll throw out for the sake of discussion.


Guy Boucher.

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04-08-2010, 12:23 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
So a coach should have the ability to make his players more talented? The thing with young players is that they are inconsistent. They have growing pains. So while kids like Stalberg, Bozak, Kulemin etc. are all players who could be very good, they're going to have stretches where they don't score.

When you put a bunch of kids on the powerplay, you better expect some struggles.
before the trade deadline, it wasn't a bunch of kids, RW decided they aren't "talented" enough to win, BB then replaced them with the young players, now they are too young and inconsistent, RW will never run out of excuses

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Old
04-08-2010, 12:42 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by maplelives View Post
before the trade deadline, it wasn't a bunch of kids, RW decided they aren't "talented" enough to win, BB then replaced them with the young players, now they are too young and inconsistent, RW will never run out of excuses
Hmm... Well, maybe you should ask the Calgary Maple Leafs how their playoff season is looking with our fantastic talent they stole from us. Stajan, Hagman, Mayers, White & the extra savvy signing of Toskala really turned their ship around.

A young team that has been gutted of its veterans & is thrown into the NHL waters to sink or swim can be expected to take a while to find its feet. Complain all you want, but earlier in the season I heard many voices suggest the frat pack & young prospects should be playing & the old team should be gone. Now that's happened. When has that last happened here in Toronto... A real wholesale move to the future?

Give Wilson the start of next season & Burke his summer of changes & re-evaluate next year.

I don't care how many years it's been since we last won the cup. Next year is a new year, all the old players are essentially gone, eventually players like Finger, Tucker & other cap inhibitors will be gone (even Giguere, after next year) & we'll see what we look like next year, and, yes, esp. in 2011/12.

Until then, people expecting us not to lose two or three in a row here and there with the lineup we have are just dreaming.

Wilson has weird decisions & logic & sometimes I'm not sure what he's doing, but he *is* a competent coach & does know what it takes to be a winner.

If the team is a travesty next year instead of showing improvement, then let's see him move on... But not until then... Judging anything in this time of *huge* transition is just crazy. Absolutely stupid, in fact, because the team needs to develop & gel now.

Like another poster said... *stability* -- Then judgement.

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Old
04-08-2010, 12:47 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
No one picked Team USA to do anything at the Olympics. Russia, Sweden and Finland were all considered to be better teams and yet the USA made it all the way to the end.
Not so sure...

All that underdog stuff, I didn't buy it before the tournament, and after the preliminary round I thought US should have been the favorites. They had a motivated, talented team with a hot goalie. What more do you need? If anything I thought the success showed Burke and co's ability to pick a group with good chemistry that would compete hard. Debatable I suppose.

Not saying Wilson should be fired, but I don't buy that underdog stuff for a second.

However if they do fire Wilson the choice for next coach is pretty clear cut:

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04-08-2010, 12:50 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by maplelives View Post
before the trade deadline, it wasn't a bunch of kids, RW decided they aren't "talented" enough to win, BB then replaced them with the young players, now they are too young and inconsistent, RW will never run out of excuses
Wilson will run out of excuses eventually as MLSE BOG are only going to take so much losing that even autonomy or not they will force Burke's hand into replacing him if the results do not improve..

The Leafs finish the season in 29th spot their worst result since 1984-85 and 25 years ago, and I challenge posters to find Ron Wilson quotes were he accepts any accountability for the results of the season.. The goals against is 29th the specialty teams are 30th and worst and still all he does is find excuses and toss different players under the Bus to explain away all the failure.

Yesterday again no different where today's quote direct against his players not being ready to come out and play.. Last time I checked that is what a coach is paid for to get his team ready for a game.

Quote:
“We talked about the same thing, that if we got a good start we could turn the whole (Madison Square Garden) crowd against them,” Wilson said. “But that (first) was as bad a period as we’ve played all season. The last few games, the other teams have played well and haven’t played nervous. They’ve come at us really hard and unfortunately, some of our youth shows at that time. We didn’t respond physically when we needed it.”
Yada yada yada !!!

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04-08-2010, 12:54 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by naturalnumbas View Post
Not so sure...

All that underdog stuff, I didn't buy it before the tournament, and after the preliminary round I thought US should have been the favorites. They had a motivated, talented team with a hot goalie. What more do you need? If anything I thought the success showed Burke and co's ability to pick a group with good chemistry that would compete hard. Debatable I suppose.

Not saying Wilson should be fired, but I don't buy that underdog stuff for a second.

However if they do fire Wilson the choice for next coach is pretty clear cut:
are we Ducks or what

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04-08-2010, 12:57 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by s h a n Y e View Post
Once Burke has his roster then we can see what RW is capable of.

Even so RW has not been doing his part I feel.
Masking a mediocre coach behind a good roster isn't going to make the coaching situation any better. It's just going to make your good roster play in a mediocre system.

I don't care how bad your roster is, when the PK and PP struggle like it has since Ron came on board, you look at the coach for an answer. The defence got an upgrade prior to the season, and the team played the same defensively... something is wrong with this picture.

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04-08-2010, 12:58 PM
  #94
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are we Ducks or what
I thought the Mighty Ducks would be first in line for his services...

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Old
04-08-2010, 01:09 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Wilson will run out of excuses eventually as MLSE BOG are only going to take so much losing that even autonomy or not they will force Burke's hand into replacing him if the results do not improve..

The Leafs finish the season in 29th spot their worst result since 1984-85 and 25 years ago, and I challenge posters to find Ron Wilson quotes were he accepts any accountability for the results of the season.. The goals against is 29th the specialty teams are 30th and worst and still all he does is find excuses and toss different players under the Bus to explain away all the failure.

Yesterday again no different where today's quote direct against his players not being ready to come out and play.. Last time I checked that is what a coach is paid for to get his team ready for a game.



Yada yada yada !!!
Well, looking at that quote above, uh, is that really all that inaccurate?

Maybe Leafs fans & players aren't used to management that is frank & speaks their mind.

The Leafs had a bad first period & were badly outplayed... What is Wilson supposed to say? "We were fantastic, outshot, outplayed, outhustled, outscored, but it's really just bad bounces & in fact, before the game, I did my best to have my team completely unprepared so blame me..."?

I mean, I've seen some questionable RW catcalls, but really, what you quoted above seems a fair assessment of what happened & he doesn't throw any players under the bus, he just says a young team can make young mistakes & get caught out sometimes.

ALSO... Before these last few games the Leafs had one of the best 10 game stretches in the league, if not the whole league.

It seems like this whole season is informing this evaluation of the latest 3 game losing skid & hate-on against Wilson; rather than the more encouraging record since the trade deadline.

The PK is better, the PP has tanked, the Leafs have some positives but need a lot of work... There will be more changes over the summer, new faces next year & until things settle & a new season starts, I'm not going to say Wilson is the problem & that someone else will solve it.

Give it 20-30 games next year & then demand his head, whatever.

But if the record is respectable 20-30 games in next year, everyone will be excited, no-one will be complaining & this thread will be completely useless.

Wilson's not going anywhere right now. Live with it & focus on the glimmers of hope for the future. -- For instance, the entire club has *completely* changed in the space of a couple of years from front office, to scouting, to prospects, to the roster. The Leafs are the youngest team in the entire league. We've cleared a bit of cap space for new players & come 2012, there will be even more cap space to play with, if needed.

The team is building & restructuring... At least let the coaching & messages from the top-down stay consistent until we see what this team has been shaped into.

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04-08-2010, 01:14 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
and I challenge posters to find Ron Wilson quotes were he accepts any accountability for the results of the season.. !!!
How often do Coach's blame themselves? Must be volumes of quotes from Maurice blaming himself for their demise this year.

Coaches can only do so much to get a team fired up. If you've been involved in any Athletics you'd know that it was going to be a very tough start yesterday and the only hope would be to weather the storm and turn the tide. Obviously that didn't happen.

Remember one team was playing for their lives when the other is long since dead.

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Old
04-08-2010, 01:18 PM
  #97
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I thought the Mighty Ducks would be first in line for his services...
Our guys are younger, probably in need of some life lessons along the way. Maybe he could help Kessel's relationship with his mother or something, I forget what happened.

I mean did you see what he did with that junior team? No one expected anything and they beat Iceland!

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04-08-2010, 01:26 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Shanty View Post
He absolutely refuses to change ANYTHING about his coaching style to help suit what he has and will have within this team.

I think that this is actually a very conscience decision by the organization. New Jersey and Detroit are successful because they play the same system each year despite of the players. If the player doesn't play/fit it THEY are changed. It might not be working yet, but if the management team is all on the same page and sticks to building a constant system that the players need to fit into I believe it will.

I'm not a fan of Wilson's holier than thou attitude but I think his and Burke's egos help the new players by giving the media a target to shoot at (Burke and Wilson) rather than the players - see McCabe, Muskoka five etc of the past.

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04-08-2010, 02:11 PM
  #99
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I will start out by saying Wilson is pretty arrogant and far from my favourite coach but...

I'm convinced a few of you are manic or bipolar and need lithium pills or zoloft or something. the leafs are 4-4-2 in the last 10 games and i'm sure the record was better the 10 games before that. the team has been great since the olympic break.

2 or 3 game win streak and everything is fine

2 or 3 game losing streak (happens to every team the caps, sharks, gretzky's oilers) and everyone loses their minds.

everyone knows Wilson will be back next season and if the team puts themselves out of the playoffs in the first 2 months again he will be gone.

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04-08-2010, 02:51 PM
  #100
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and when everyone else fails to make the playoffs with this current team are we going to call for their heads as well?

give it time guys, give it time.....the road is finally going in the right direction.

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