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Old
04-08-2010, 03:01 PM
  #101
BlueMapleDawg
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You CAN teach defense. Ron Wilson has not.
You CAN organize a powerplay. He has not.

I am ****ing sick of seeing the opposition ice the puck, and have Wilson throw out the 3rd or 4th line. There is no defending this. That right there is a perfect example of why he's a bad coach. If you haven't noticed then I highly doubt your knowledge of the game.

His line scrambling never makes sense.

Does he even know what a timeout is???

Ron Wilson is an embarrassment. The guy is used to old time hockey. The new NHL is too much for that old fart.

"BUT HE HAS 500 WINS!!!"

Get your head out of your ass.


P.S. To whoever said the USA were underdogs. You'd have to be an idiot to think Team USA wasn't amongst the favourites for Gold. The US had excellent forwards. A good defensive core that really stepped up (Rafalski was dominant until Crosby beat him off the halfboards to win Gold). And they had the best goaltender in the world.

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04-08-2010, 03:13 PM
  #102
alcanalz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMapleDawg View Post
You CAN teach defense. Ron Wilson has not.
You CAN organize a powerplay. He has not.

I am ****ing sick of seeing the opposition ice the puck, and have Wilson throw out the 3rd or 4th line. There is no defending this. That right there is a perfect example of why he's a bad coach. If you haven't noticed then I highly doubt your knowledge of the game.

His line scrambling never makes sense.

Does he even know what a timeout is???

Ron Wilson is an embarrassment. The guy is used to old time hockey. The new NHL is too much for that old fart.

"BUT HE HAS 500 WINS!!!"

Get your head out of your ass.


P.S. To whoever said the USA were underdogs. You'd have to be an idiot to think Team USA wasn't amongst the favourites for Gold. The US had excellent forwards. A good defensive core that really stepped up (Rafalski was dominant until Crosby beat him off the halfboards to win Gold). And they had the best goaltender in the world.
I don't think RW had much to do with it, but USA were not among the favourites to win gold, not a chance.

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Old
04-08-2010, 03:37 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMapleDawg View Post
You CAN teach defense. Ron Wilson has not.
You CAN organize a powerplay. He has not.

I am ****ing sick of seeing the opposition ice the puck, and have Wilson throw out the 3rd or 4th line. There is no defending this. That right there is a perfect example of why he's a bad coach. If you haven't noticed then I highly doubt your knowledge of the game.

His line scrambling never makes sense.

Does he even know what a timeout is???

Ron Wilson is an embarrassment. The guy is used to old time hockey. The new NHL is too much for that old fart.

"BUT HE HAS 500 WINS!!!"

Get your head out of your ass.

Article date:October 31, 2006
(Copyright COPYRIGHT 2007 San Jose Mercury News.)

Oct. 31--The Sharks and Florida Panthers... ...the two teams are the NHL's best this season while skating with a man advantage... With 21 goals in 75 power-play opportunities, San Jose has a 28 percent conversion rate that is tops in the NHL...

...The fact that so many of his team's goals have come on the power play probably isn't a huge surprise to Sharks Coach Ron Wilson. On opening day, when asked to break down his team's offensive production, Wilson forecast big things from the forwards on his top two lines...


A moment in time, I know, but to say that Ron Wilson doesn't know how to organize a powerplay... I mean, really... Obviously in San Jose the players did it all by themselves, but in Toronto it's all the coaches fault & nothing else is a factor.

Clearly.


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04-08-2010, 04:08 PM
  #104
Shanty
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^I do not think he is entirely to blame, what I'm saying through all the changes and all the ups and downs, he STILL does not have any of the forwards learning how to play defense in a responsible manner.

Who are our best defensive forwards? Sjostrom (From Calgary) and Kulemin (He's just a monster). So something tells me that these young players are not learning proper defensive positioning. You can only blame players so much for their own mistakes, especially when they don't seem to have anyone showing them the right thing to do, other than Tim Hunter telling players "Don't do that".

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04-08-2010, 04:45 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanty View Post
Who are our best defensive forwards? Sjostrom (From Calgary) and Kulemin (He's just a monster). So something tells me that these young players are not learning proper defensive positioning. You can only blame players so much for their own mistakes, especially when they don't seem to have anyone showing them the right thing to do, other than Tim Hunter telling players "Don't do that".
Kulemin's "just a monster" and that's the reason for his defensive success?

So he wasn't taught anything about defensive responsibility this season?

He wasn't developed over the course of the year?

There's no form of coaching benefitting him?

He went from a healthy scratch to the 4th line to top-six/top-line over the course of the season, and this progression was simply due to the fact that he's "just a monster"?

How do you know that none of the coaches are working on proper defensive positioning? I don't go to practices or attend team meetings, so I don't know. Elaborate... What's happening in the practices? What are the coaches doing when they meet with the players? There's nothing in there about defensive responsibility, positioning or anything else? Really?

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04-08-2010, 04:57 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMapleDawg View Post
You CAN teach defense. Ron Wilson has not.
You CAN organize a powerplay. He has not.

I am ****ing sick of seeing the opposition ice the puck, and have Wilson throw out the 3rd or 4th line. There is no defending this. That right there is a perfect example of why he's a bad coach. If you haven't noticed then I highly doubt your knowledge of the game.

His line scrambling never makes sense.

Does he even know what a timeout is???

Ron Wilson is an embarrassment. The guy is used to old time hockey. The new NHL is too much for that old fart.

"BUT HE HAS 500 WINS!!!"

Get your head out of your ass.


P.S. To whoever said the USA were underdogs. You'd have to be an idiot to think Team USA wasn't amongst the favourites for Gold. The US had excellent forwards. A good defensive core that really stepped up (Rafalski was dominant until Crosby beat him off the halfboards to win Gold). And they had the best goaltender in the world.
Wilson should have been fired already. Any team that starts the season the way the Leafs did this year...

From what we all hear, most players hate playing for him and some won't come to Toronto because of him.

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Old
04-08-2010, 04:58 PM
  #107
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Found this while rooting around on the web a bit:


Profiles in Excellence: Ron Wilson

http://www.insidehockey.com/columns/5398


Illuminating profile on Wilson as an "excellent" coach, despite his inability to win it all.

-- Interesting to note the below, too, & that Wilson made the cut (see below) --


"The rating system awards points based on six measures of success. Points are awarded as follows:

1) For coaching a team to a winning season
2) For coaching a team unbeaten in 65% or more of its season games
3) For all first place finishes
4) For making a playoff appearance
5) For leading a team to the Stanley Cup finals
6) For coaching a Stanley Cup champion.

Out of the 364 men who have coached in the NHL and WHA from 1917 to 2009 only thirty-nine have achieved twenty or more success points. What follows is an examination of each one of those coaches from the bottom of the list to the top. When you compare the number of great coaches on my list with the total number of those who served, one could paraphrase D.H. Lawrence in saying that a good coach is hard to find."

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Old
04-08-2010, 05:04 PM
  #108
smoke meat pete*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Optimist View Post

Article date:October 31, 2006
(Copyright COPYRIGHT 2007 San Jose Mercury News.)

Oct. 31--The Sharks and Florida Panthers... ...the two teams are the NHL's best this season while skating with a man advantage... With 21 goals in 75 power-play opportunities, San Jose has a 28 percent conversion rate that is tops in the NHL...

...The fact that so many of his team's goals have come on the power play probably isn't a huge surprise to Sharks Coach Ron Wilson. On opening day, when asked to break down his team's offensive production, Wilson forecast big things from the forwards on his top two lines...


A moment in time, I know, but to say that Ron Wilson doesn't know how to organize a powerplay... I mean, really... Obviously in San Jose the players did it all by themselves, but in Toronto it's all the coaches fault & nothing else is a factor.

Clearly.

They also had a very good pk in his last year there too. It is my belief that he has been coaching specific players (those who will still be here) on individual skills and not focused on team play. We have seen players like Schenn and Kulemin learn new skills and solid play, which has not resulted in more wins. In a year or two, when good, strong players are coming in, those guys will have refined their skills, and be "experts" in their field, and allow the skilled guys to come in an really impact the results of the team. If the players aren't big enough, or strong enough, or quick enough to play his system, they end up hurting the system for everyone, so he taught basic systems, which have not been successful. Next year, he better teach something else, because this one sure didn't work. I believe he has 80% or so of the players he needs to run his system, whereas at the beginning of the year, he had 40% of those guys, and some of them weren't quite ready, due to being young and inexperienced. Next year they will be better, and by 2011/2012, they will be top 10 in the league.

This call all be hogwash, I recognize that, but my football background (coaching/playing/trainig) taught me about learning individual skill before learning syustems. I know it seems like a throw away season, but in the long run, guys like Schenn, Gunnarson and Kulemin will be much further along, than if they knew a system 1st.

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Old
04-08-2010, 05:39 PM
  #109
Daisy Joy
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Nomorewhining, no that makes sense. When I was playing volleyball, our coaches always picked us out a few times to really solidify our strengths first before we learned the system. Because, what point is there, if I, who is not strong at spiking the ball, continues to initate that play where, I would be stronger, standing off to the side, ready for the return volley, since I was really good at the digs [from like ANYWHERE].

I really think it all just CLICKS next season. and if it doesn't, Wilson is gone. [Larry Robinson... isn't he a trappity trap coach?].

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04-08-2010, 05:56 PM
  #110
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You know talking about Larry Robinson and systems... a few weeks ago when the Leafs beat the Devils...Wilson said .. "We out deviled the Devils tonight..." - maybe that's a sign...of where we are right now...or what system works for these players... I mean if you can out devil the devils...

On the flip side... to be 100% honest.. trap hockey is the easy way out. I look at it like when kids use to "cheese" in video games back in the nintendo or n64 days... it's like doing the same move over and over again.... I mean it'll get you to the playoffs but I don't think 8th place trap teams , or atleast with our current line up ..could trap successfully and beat say the 1st place Caps or Pens in a 7 game series... What happens once Ovi or Sid the Kid get going....I don't care what system you're playing..lights out!

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Old
04-08-2010, 06:08 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TML42 View Post
There is a player on that line that stands to get a substantial pay increase this summer by breaking up the line his production has all but disappeared.

That was likely the reason for breaking up the line...
If that was actually his reason for breaking up that line it just proves my point that he's an idiot.

His job is to get the most out of players not make them look bad.

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Old
04-08-2010, 10:22 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Optimist View Post
Kulemin's "just a monster" and that's the reason for his defensive success?
I will give Wilson credit where it's due, sure. You got me on that one. But the fact still remains, something about Wilson has impacted the fact that several players have made it fairly clear they DO NOT like playing for him. I can certainly understand that not every player is going to like every coach, and this could simply be an example of it being blown out of proportion. But he will blame the whole team before he blames his own system, and you have to know that's a fact at this point.

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04-09-2010, 04:51 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Shanty View Post
I will give Wilson credit where it's due, sure. You got me on that one. But the fact still remains, something about Wilson has impacted the fact that several players have made it fairly clear they DO NOT like playing for him. I can certainly understand that not every player is going to like every coach, and this could simply be an example of it being blown out of proportion. But he will blame the whole team before he blames his own system, and you have to know that's a fact at this point.
Curious, who are these players that "have made it fairly clear"?

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04-09-2010, 06:37 AM
  #114
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i`m not being sarcastic here, just curious.


has Ron Wilson ever coached a bad team to a successful season, or have all of his teams been stacked like San Jose...

because every year, it seems the teams at the top of the standings have the best players on them...

maybe Dave Tippett is the guy we should have hired (or was he still with Dallas at the time).

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Old
04-09-2010, 07:13 AM
  #115
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Maybe we need to make a blockbuster trade

Toronto

Ron Wilson

Rangers

John Trotz

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04-09-2010, 08:56 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Morguee View Post
I think that this is actually a very conscience decision by the organization. New Jersey and Detroit are successful because they play the same system each year despite of the players. If the player doesn't play/fit it THEY are changed. It might not be working yet, but if the management team is all on the same page and sticks to building a constant system that the players need to fit into I believe it will.

I'm not a fan of Wilson's holier than thou attitude but I think his and Burke's egos help the new players by giving the media a target to shoot at (Burke and Wilson) rather than the players - see McCabe, Muskoka five etc of the past.
Bingo. Wilson's system works, you can see some stretches where all the players follow it, and they completely dominate the other teams, but they start winning, they get overconfident, and they fall out of the system, then they start losing, then they get down on themselves, and we see the **** we've seen this season. That's how it is with a young team.

You don't scramble to find a new system to match the players, because as a coach, you know your system, not some other random system you pulled out of your rear end between games. Constantly trying to change systems leads to a completely disorganized team, and can hurt the development of the younger guys.

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04-09-2010, 08:59 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by T0r0nt0 View Post
Wilson should have been fired already. Any team that starts the season the way the Leafs did this year...

From what we all hear, most players hate playing for him and some won't come to Toronto because of him.
can you find me one source for that?

all I've seen is that the player who supposedly hated him the most, is willing to come back and play for him, even after a very public feud.

So, something tells me... you're wrong,

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04-09-2010, 09:08 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Leaf Optimist View Post
Kulemin's "just a monster" and that's the reason for his defensive success?

So he wasn't taught anything about defensive responsibility this season?

He wasn't developed over the course of the year?

There's no form of coaching benefitting him?

He went from a healthy scratch to the 4th line to top-six/top-line over the course of the season, and this progression was simply due to the fact that he's "just a monster"?

How do you know that none of the coaches are working on proper defensive positioning? I don't go to practices or attend team meetings, so I don't know. Elaborate... What's happening in the practices? What are the coaches doing when they meet with the players? There's nothing in there about defensive responsibility, positioning or anything else? Really?

Kulemin had to get used to the North American game.

As much as everyone wants to think he came out of nowhere, he was MVP of the Russian Super League at about age 20.

He has however not fully embraced his offensive abilities over here, and I think that is no small part to being saddled with a center like Grabovski for much of last year. Best thing that happened to Kulemin was Grabovski's injury which forced RW to move him to another center.

Sometimes the best decision a coach makes is one he has no choice to make.

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He was the Leafs' leading scorer in the 1963–64, 1966–67 and 1969–70 seasons, and the team's top goal scorer in 1970–71 and 1972–73. Keon was considered one of the fastest skaters in the NHL, and one of the best defensive forwards of his era.[3] He would usually play against the opposing team's top centre, and developed a reputation for neutralizing some of the league's top scorers. In 1970–71, he scored eight shorthanded goals, setting an NHL record.
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04-09-2010, 09:10 AM
  #119
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You can't blame the coach when he only has one reliable goal-scorer and his best defenceman is a constant disappointment defensively.

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04-09-2010, 09:12 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
How often do Coach's blame themselves? Must be volumes of quotes from Maurice blaming himself for their demise this year.

Coaches can only do so much to get a team fired up. If you've been involved in any Athletics you'd know that it was going to be a very tough start yesterday and the only hope would be to weather the storm and turn the tide. Obviously that didn't happen.

Remember one team was playing for their lives when the other is long since dead.
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“I’m not a finger pointer. I believe in doing it the right way. Whatever happens, happens.

“Darryl’s my brother. I love him to death.

“We’re professionals. We all have responsibility for what happened. Coaches, players . . . ’’

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...#ixzz0kc1HbUhb

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04-09-2010, 09:25 AM
  #121
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Curious, who are these players that "have made it fairly clear"?
I see... So you didn't read the next sentence after that? I'm going to ignore you now...

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04-09-2010, 11:25 AM
  #122
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I say we keep RW for another year until our young players develop

and then fire him and get John Tortorella..we need a hard-nosed coach who will yell the ****** out of players if they're under-performing. We need an attitude change in terms of coaching.

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04-09-2010, 11:33 AM
  #123
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I see... So you didn't read the next sentence after that? I'm going to ignore you now...
ok?

Should we take that to mean you're making it up?

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04-09-2010, 12:44 PM
  #124
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IMHO Wilson won't be the coach or Burke won't be GM this time next season.

Constantly changing the team to suit Wilson's excuses for losing and having league bottom stats in D, PP, PK will force a change somewhere.

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04-09-2010, 12:50 PM
  #125
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IMHO Wilson won't be the coach or Burke won't be GM this time next season.

Constantly changing the team to suit Wilson's excuses for losing and having league bottom stats in D, PP, PK will force a change somewhere.
What if we're winning?

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