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ATD 2010, Part VI

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Old
04-09-2010, 04:28 PM
  #51
raleh
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Uh, Bob Probert?

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Old
04-09-2010, 04:38 PM
  #52
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Question guys. Would Loktev be a legitimate left wing replacement for Shack on my fourth line? I feel with Weight and McKenzie there, that Shack is really bringing down what could be a decently offensive crash and bang line with his lack of offense. Loktev isn't as physical as Eddie, obviously, but he has a major edge in offense and is at least his equal defensively. He only has one 1st all-star selection at left wing, which isn't much, but it is something to prove he can play there.

So, in conclusion, Loktev believable as a 4th line left wing? Thanks in advance.

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Old
04-09-2010, 04:42 PM
  #53
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Swamp Devils select:

Power forward superstar W/D Wade Bel....

Nah.

D/RW Marty McSorley.

Marty will dress for a couple of home games at RW against the Regina Pats. He'll play with the 4th line for the first half of the game before having his butt firmly planted to the bench in the second half. His job will be to take shots at Sprague Cleghorn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Pelletier
Originally a winger, Marty is best known for playing defense where he cleared creases and intimidate attacking opponents on a nightly basis. He did possess a heavy shot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legendsofhockey
Since debuting in the NHL in 1983-84, defenceman Marty McSorley has developed into one of the toughest customers in the game. His ability to rush with the puck and utilize a quick shot from the point has made him a prominent member of several NHL clubs.
...
In 1985, he was picked up by the Edmonton Oilers and was an important physical deterrent when the club dominated the NHL through the regular season. The next year, he experienced the euphoria of a Stanley Cup win and contributed four playoff goals in addition to muscle. In 1987-88, McSorley scored nine goals and played in a variety of situations for the Oilers when they repeated as Cup Champs.
...
McSorley was part of the monumental trade of Wayne Gretzky to the L.A. Kings in August 1988. He spent five years providing offense, grit, and a winning attitude on his new club.

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Old
04-09-2010, 04:48 PM
  #54
seventieslord
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Sprague Cleghorn is soooooo scared.....

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Old
04-09-2010, 04:49 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzeznik View Post
Question guys. Would Loktev be a legitimate left wing replacement for Shack on my fourth line? I feel with Weight and McKenzie there, that Shack is really bringing down what could be a decently offensive crash and bang line with his lack of offense. Loktev isn't as physical as Eddie, obviously, but he has a major edge in offense and is at least his equal defensively. He only has one 1st all-star selection at left wing, which isn't much, but it is something to prove he can play there.

So, in conclusion, Loktev believable as a 4th line left wing? Thanks in advance.
Where do you see that Loktev has an AS at LW? I thought he was strictly the RW on that famous line. I might be wrong. He very well might be able to play both sides.

Due to the strict systems the Tarasov-era Soviets played in, I personally have more trouble seeing them switch wings than most players.


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Old
04-09-2010, 04:50 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Sprague Cleghorn is soooooo scared.....
I don't expect him to be scared. Just pissed off. Whatever, he decapitates McSorley and gets thrown out, bigger loss for you than me.


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Old
04-09-2010, 04:58 PM
  #57
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Cleghorn definitely had a short temper. All it would take to set him off is a little agitation, and it's history from there.

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04-09-2010, 04:59 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzeznik View Post
Question guys. Would Loktev be a legitimate left wing replacement for Shack on my fourth line? I feel with Weight and McKenzie there, that Shack is really bringing down what could be a decently offensive crash and bang line with his lack of offense. Loktev isn't as physical as Eddie, obviously, but he has a major edge in offense and is at least his equal defensively. He only has one 1st all-star selection at left wing, which isn't much, but it is something to prove he can play there.

So, in conclusion, Loktev believable as a 4th line left wing? Thanks in advance.
- who says Loktev isn't as physical as Shack? Read my MLD11 bio on him.

- determining what level of offense Loktev may have produuced at the NHL level is rather difficult with no reference points. What we know is, he was a semi-elite scorer in Russia at a time when they were kicking our amateurs' ***** but hadn't played our best, and he was the 3rd-most talented member of the line.
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Old
04-09-2010, 05:00 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Where do you see that Loktev has an AS at LW? I thought he was strictly the RW on that famous line. I might be wrong. He very well might be able to play both sides.

Due to the strict systems the Tarasov-era Soviets played in, I personally have more trouble seeing them switch wings than most players.
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=17241898&postcount=1

1959 he and Boris Mayorov are listed at the left and right wingers respectively. I believe Mayorov could play both sides, so it could be a typo, but I was just wondering if anyone had the answer.

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04-09-2010, 05:02 PM
  #60
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzeznik View Post
Question guys. Would Loktev be a legitimate left wing replacement for Shack on my fourth line? I feel with Weight and McKenzie there, that Shack is really bringing down what could be a decently offensive crash and bang line with his lack of offense. Loktev isn't as physical as Eddie, obviously, but he has a major edge in offense and is at least his equal defensively. He only has one 1st all-star selection at left wing, which isn't much, but it is something to prove he can play there.

So, in conclusion, Loktev believable as a 4th line left wing? Thanks in advance.
To add to my last reply, since my phone won't let me get back to the bottom of my post to add to it:

I thought he was always a rw, like TDMM. The listing of the allstar team doesn't necessarily mean he was a lw that season. I think shack and loktev are a toss-up until you consider shack is definitely a lw, and loktev may or may not have spent one season at lw.
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Old
04-09-2010, 05:09 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chigurh View Post
Cleghorn definitely had a short temper. All it would take to set him off is a little agitation, and it's history from there.
He'll club your guy over the head after the game, when noone is watching, so I don't think it'll matter much..

It really disturbs me how much you guys feel Cleghorn is such a liability. There were far worse agitators during the days when Cleghorn played than Marty freaking McSorley, and Cleghorn still played to the end of his career. I don't know if he was ever suspended for the year for an incident that didn't involve him exacting revenge on a club that couldn't sign him, and he played at a very high level for a long time. Nothing is ever said about how good a player he was, but rather how violent/temperamental he was.. a shame, really.

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04-09-2010, 05:10 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I don't expect him to be scared. Just pissed off. Whatever, he decapitates McSorley and gets thrown out, bigger loss for you than me.
We are flattered that you see us as such a threat that you drafted a player for the sole purpose of needling one of our best players.

FWIW, we see you as our biggest threat as well, and we're delighted that you burned a pick on a guy who will be a liability in most situations but especially when you plan to use him (against our first unit) and won't provide much insulation from an injury depleted lineup should the bug bite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chigurh View Post
Cleghorn definitely had a short temper. All it would take to set him off is a little agitation, and it's history from there.
Hogwash. You make him sound like a Maurice Richard-level psychopath where all you had to do was needle him and he'd go ballistic. If that was the case, I'm sure a guy who played 50-60 minutes a game would have more than 2.15 PIM/game and I'm sure he'd not only be the most-penalized player of his era, but by a wide margin, too. He's not.

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Old
04-09-2010, 05:17 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Swamp Devils select:

Power forward superstar W/D Wade Bel....

Nah.

D/RW Marty McSorley.

Marty will dress for a couple of home games at RW against the Regina Pats. He'll play with the 4th line for the first half of the game before having his butt firmly planted to the bench in the second half. His job will be to take shots at Sprague Cleghorn.
Ughhhhhh, wanted McSorely.

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Old
04-09-2010, 05:26 PM
  #64
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
and won't provide much insulation from an injury depleted lineup should the bug bite
Eh, I think he's as good as a lot of other spares, possibly as useful as some established 4th liners in this thing.

There's a reason contenders were falling all over themselves to bring him in.

Anyway, I highly highly doubt this makes any difference in the regular season rankings. Just something to entertain the fans who braved the swamps of Jersey to watch us play the Pats.

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Old
04-09-2010, 05:30 PM
  #65
seventieslord
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Quote:
There's a reason contenders were falling all over themselves to bring him in.
...yeah, for depth and a veteran presence. No one was bringing him in to be a top-3 D. And that was real life; of course, his ATD standing is obviously lower like most players.

Do we have any info on exactly which seasons mcsorley played a lot of forward?

I was just curious about him and wanted to do a TOI estimation similar to what I did for Phil Russell because I'm curious where he placed on depth charts throughout his career, and his TOI in his last two seasons really doesn't tell us anything. If I were to do this, I'd have to exclude seasons he was a forward for an extended period as that would sway his GF/GA figures down and make him look less-used than he was. I'm thinking that aside from 1990-91 and 1992-93 he might have been a #4-5 his whole career. That's how I generally remember him.

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Old
04-09-2010, 05:49 PM
  #66
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
...yeah, for depth and a veteran presence. No one was bringing him in to be a top-3 D. And that was real life; of course, his ATD standing is obviously lower like most players.

Do we have any info on exactly which seasons mcsorley played a lot of forward?

I was just curious about him and wanted to do a TOI estimation similar to what I did for Phil Russell because I'm curious where he placed on depth charts throughout his career, and his TOI in his last two seasons really doesn't tell us anything. If I were to do this, I'd have to exclude seasons he was a forward for an extended period as that would sway his GF/GA figures down and make him look less-used than he was. I'm thinking that aside from 1990-91 and 1992-93 he might have been a #4-5 his whole career. That's how I generally remember him.
I have no idea where to find the numbers. I remember him being a solid crease-clearing 2nd pairing guy who brought some offense for a few years. He probably would have gotten more ice time if he didn't have such a bad temper.

He started off as one of those goons who could play W or D. When he got better, he mostly played D, because that's where he was most useful. I'm pretty sure he often played W and D in the same season, at least when he played on the same team as Gretzky. Basically, he went wherever he was most needed at the time - as a crease clearing defenseman or as Gretzky's bodyguard. I have nothing but hazy memory to back this up though.

In the end, McSorley is probably what Wade Belak could have been if Belak had ever reached his potential. What a waste of talent, Wade.


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Old
04-09-2010, 06:23 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jareklajkosz View Post

It really disturbs me how much you guys feel Cleghorn is such a liability. There were far worse agitators during the days when Cleghorn played than Marty freaking McSorley, and Cleghorn still played to the end of his career. I don't know if he was ever suspended for the year for an incident that didn't involve him exacting revenge on a club that couldn't sign him, and he played at a very high level for a long time. Nothing is ever said about how good a player he was, but rather how violent/temperamental he was.. a shame, really.
That's because we all know how good a player he was.

He'd be a legit Top 15 defenseman based on talent alone. But he's rightfully knocked down a bit due to his mental problems. Still a legit #1 defenseman in the ATD, probably in the middle range of them.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 04-09-2010 at 07:06 PM.
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04-09-2010, 07:06 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I hope nobody thinks of Cleghorn as a liability out there in general. He's definitely a legit #1 defenseman in the ATD, probably in the middle range of them.

He'd be a legit Top 15 defenseman based on talent. Many (including myself) do knock him down due to his mental problems, but he's still Top 20.
I'm not even sure if they were mental problems. As I've stated numerous times, everything he ever did that earned him a bad reputation were calculated actions with reasons behind them.

- nearly killed Lalonde because Lalonde was beating his brother around
- injured a bunch of Ottawa players because Ottawa could not re-sign him to their team

If you go through his "history", these are common factors among all his incidents. I'm not saying what he did was RIGHT, but I am saying that he's not going to crack someone over the head with his stick for no reason.

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Old
04-09-2010, 08:49 PM
  #69
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Chief De Laval skipped.

719. Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs - ON THE CLOCK (somebody FACEBOOK him please!)

720. Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads

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04-09-2010, 09:21 PM
  #70
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Re: Marty McSorley. He was 6th in the league in power play goals against in 1993, so he was obviously on LA's first penalty killing unit.

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04-09-2010, 10:42 PM
  #71
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719. Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs - ON THE CLOCK 2 hours remaining

720. Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads

Outstanding picks:

679. Nighthawks - New Haven Nighthawks
685. papershoes - Kenora Thistles
702. Nighthawks - New Haven Nighthawks
718. markrander - Chief De Laval

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04-09-2010, 11:10 PM
  #72
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select

#15 Tomas Kaberle,D

Quote:
Tomas Kaberle was drafted 204th overall in 1996 NHL Entry Draft by the Toronto Maple Leafs. In his first season Kabs wasn't even suppose to make the leafs at all but when he suited up for his first game in the NHL he played an amazing 29 minutes for the blue and white. Proving he was a thoroughbred horse that the leafs could steadily ride for the next decade to follow. He likes to keep the play in the leafs back end crisp and precise. This simplifies the game in the leafs zone before he decides to wheel up the ice or simply pass the puck to his teammates.

Tomas has become an all round star on the blue line in the Mecca of hockey. A fluid elegant swift skater, he can wheel with the puck, is an excellent accurate passer who loves to join the attack.

Kabs has superior hockey sense and this allows him to play with a healthy self-confidence. He collects plenty of points because he possesses tremendous hockey smarts and has the ability to find his teammates on the ice.Tomas provides constant support for his team while becoming one of the elite defencemen in the entire league.

He is now 3rd all time highest scoring defender for the blue and white.Trailing only Borje Salming 768 PTS and Tim Horton 458 PTS while Tomas Kaberle has 437 PTS

Since the lockout only superstars Lidstrom and Niedermayer have out gunned Kaberle: Lidstrom 274, Niedermayer 216 Kaberle 214, XXX 214, XXX 213, Rafalski 213, Pronger 211, Gonchar 208, XXX 201, Chara 190, XXX 189, XXX 182 and Zubov 164.
Quote:
Kabs is a stalwart on defence that can long 25 minutes+ a game.Very well respected across the nhl for his superb all round game.Great puck possession because he plays with a small stick.The only draw back is he can't pokecheck very well and he isn't overly physical. Well known for his ability to execute the perfect outlet pass. At one time he was considered as just a set up man for XXX and now a days for XXX. He is an effortless skater who can zoom up the ice faster then most players.Tomas possesses great hockey sense and his team benefits from his excellent positional play. His head is always up and he uses his tremendous vision on the ice to make the perfect play. Kaberle always displays the ability to do the proper thing and the right play at the right time.Definitely one of the best puck movers in the game.
-Dave Reid-reworded
RS:819 80 402 482
PO:77 6 22 28 22
11 NHL Seasons
Era Late 1990's -present
Played in NHL All-Star Game (2002, 07,08,09)
Top 10 Assists Tomas Kaberle 05-06 Toronto 58
Best Season :2005-06 Toronto Maple Leafs 82 9 58 67 46
-3rd highest scoring Defenceman in leafs history
-Ranked 54th -100 All Time Leafs Book
Role:Offensive Defenceman/Speed Demon


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04-09-2010, 11:32 PM
  #73
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With the 20th selection, the 586th overall in this year All-Time Draft, the Detroit Falcons are very please to select George Owen Jr.



Name: Harvard George
Height: 5'11''
Weight: 190 lbs
Position: Defence
Shoots: Left
Date of Birth: February 12, 1901
Place of Birth: Hamilton , Ontario, Canada
Date of Death: March 04, 1986 (Age: 85)

Stanley Cup Champion (1929)
Stanley Cup Finalist (1930)
Team Captain (1931-1932)
Olympics (1924)
USA Hockey Hall of Fame (1973)

Top-10 Scoring Among defenseman (1st*, 2nd, 7th, 10th)
Top-10 Goalscoring among defenseman (1st*, 2nd, 5th, 6th, 7th)
Top-10 Assist among defenseman (2nd*, 3rd, 5th)

Top-10 Playoff Scoring Among defenseman (8th)
Top-10 Playoff Assist (4th, 6th)
Top-10 Playoff Penalty Minutes among defenseman (6th)
Top-10 Playoff Scoring Among defenseman (1st, 3rd)
Top-10 Playoff Goalscoring among defenseman (1st)
Top-10 Playoff Assist among defenseman (1st, 2nd)
Top-10 Playoff Penalty Minutes among defenseman (6th, 10th, 10th)

- In 1921, George Owen Jr was elected captain of the University hockey team
- In 1923, Owen graduated from Harvard and was awarded Harvard's Wingate cup for best all around athletic ability
- In 1923, he outhomered a certain Columbia first baseman by the name of Lou Gehrig on the diamond
- At first, Owen was acquired by the Toronto Maple Leafs, but never played for them. On January 8th, 1929, his rights traded to Boston by Toronto for Eric Pettinger and the rights to Hugh Plaxton
- The first player to wear protective headgear was George Owen of the Boston Bruins in 1929. Owen had also played football and wore his leather football helmet on the ice. Early hockey helmets that followed were skimpy leather affairs
- It is alleged that Owen received 16 000$ for his first year as a professional and received a record bonus of 25 000$ to sign with the Boston Bruins
- During his playing days, he was one of Boston Globe sports writer
- From 1923 to 1942, he worked as an investment broker
- Owen managed the Hadley Special Tool Company during World War II
- From 1953 to 1963, Owen was a teacher and coach at Milton Academy
- He was later a scout for Philadelphia Phillies and Pittsburgh Pirates
- In 1983, he was also elected into the College Football Hall of Fame
- Owen played the banjo, violin and saxophone


Quote:
Originally Posted by HHOF
Defenceman George Owen was a fine offensive player on the Boston Bruins between 1928-33. His 44 goals in 183 games was a fairly high ratio for the time and was invaluable to the Beantowners' transition game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trail of the Stanley Cup, vol.2
A free-for-all developped after Hib Milks was heavily checked by the Boston defence player George Owen.

1931 playoffs:
[Against the Canadiens:] - March 28th: Boston came right back to tie the series at two games each when they defeated Canadiens 3-1 in the fourth game. Eddie Shore and George Owen starred of defence.

[In 1932]Art Ross, in desperation to get some life into his Bruins was trying a few experiments such as using big George Owen on a forward line with Art Chapman and Percy Galbraith. The big fellow performed quite well but was obviously better on defence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by College Football Hall of Fame
He played every minute of rugged hockey games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globe and Mail; January 21st 1929
The United States, since the increase in hockey's popularity along the line, is starting to develop really good players, as witness the signing of Myle Lane by the Rangers and George Owen by Boston.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globe and Mail; March 30th 1930
George Owen went in for Hitchman and performed so well that the Bruins rangy leader was not missed. Owen was all over the ice and early in the third period he led the rush that ended when Bill Carson beat ''Flash''Walsh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globe and Mail; April 8th 1931
Like a flash, Owen passed out to ''Cooney'' Weiland who slapped it into the twine of Hainsworth's unprotected side.

Chapman rushed to the defence and passed across to George Owen on left wing. George was uncovered and found the corner on a rising shot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globe and Mail; October 28th 1932
The former Harvard star was not a holdout. He was unable to decide weither or not hockey interfered with his brokerage business until late today, when he threshed out his problem with the Buins' head. As in former years, his play will be restricted to the home games and the short midweek trips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globe and Mail; February 11th 1937
George Owen Harvard University and Jerry Geran of Darmouth University were easily the most efficient professionals who ever graduated from United States intercollegiate company.

- ''As Hib Milks came down the ice and met the defences of the Bruins, he was handed a handsome body check by George Owen. Harvard George is a peaceable fellow and very pleasant. Milks, however, wanted to get a shot at the goal and resented being blocked off. So he took a swipe at Owen with his hockey and George flattened him with a beautiful tackle.'' - Arthur Siegel, Boston Herald

-''Look over the good players you know or have seen, make exception of men like Hobey Baker of Princeton and George Owen of Harvard, and you'll come to the conclusion that most of the good hockey men are no fast in baseball, football or tracks.'' - Manager Jack Slattery


Sites:
http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=13907
http://www.sihrhockey.org/member_pla...TOKEN=32966801
http://www.collegefootball.org/famersearch.php?id=20016
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/19...n-for-1921-22/
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/19...american-1924/
http://www.900chml.com/Sports/Hockey...spx?id=1040532
http://www.sihrhockey.org/public_xmas_1930.cfm
http://harvardmagazine.com/1997/09/pump.html
http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...s+paper+A+to+Z

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Old
04-09-2010, 11:44 PM
  #74
TheDevilMadeMe
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Sounds like Owens definitely had a strong physical game to go along with his offense. There's enough to suggest he was okay defensively, but I'd still prefer it if he were partnered with a guy who we know was good. Looking forward to the Coutu bio.

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04-09-2010, 11:46 PM
  #75
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We are on the last pick of the draft and have several outstanding picks to make up.

ANY OF THESE PICKS CAN BE MADE AT ANY TIME:

679. Nighthawks - New Haven Nighthawks
685. papershoes - Kenora Thistles
702. Nighthawks - New Haven Nighthawks
718. markrander - Chief De Laval
720. Stalberg - Halifax Mooseheads (Technically on the clock, but nobody after him)

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