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Old
04-09-2010, 01:30 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
I say we fire the parking manager. This makes almost as much sense, and will have as much results on the on-ice product than firing Boivin.
Boivin hires the GM, GM hires coach, coach coaches players, players play like ****, parking manager laughs about it while making his money because people still go to the bell centre in masses.

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04-09-2010, 01:33 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by MTLPacman67 View Post
Well, my point is that he's hired people who haven't turned this ship around, so why the **** should we let him decide who should be running this team's hockey operations?

If Gauthier fails, I can't think of one good reason why he should be making the decisions regarding to who GMs.
Again, though, can you blame him?

Let's review:

-Savard: An off the radar choice that, by all accounts, did very well in a brief amount of time. Given what he had to recover from (Houle), I'd say he was a good steward and never got to finish what he started.

-Gainey: A no brainer hire at the time, the complete package. Unfortunately, never had the success he hoped, but that doesn't mean Gainey was the wrong hire in any world other than one with perfect hindsight.

-Gauthier: Been on the job for a couple months.

Honestly, I don't think he's made a single GM-related mistake so far.

As far as I can tell, he lets them spend to the cap, keeps the team rolling in cash and lets the GMs do what they think is best.

That's all you want in a president.

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04-09-2010, 01:38 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Rated R Superstar View Post
Boivin hires the GM, GM hires coach, coach coaches players, players play like ****, parking manager laughs about it while making his money because people still go to the bell centre in masses.
"Hires" doesn't mean "is fully responsible of". Companies don't that, for the simple reason that it is a piss poor way of handling your human resources. Boivin isn't involved in hockey decision: if you fire him, you lose his great knowledge of the Montreal market and his big success in making the habs a very hot entertainment item again after the loosy '90. From the point of view of the owners, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. This is ESPECIALLY true since all the GM Boivin hired were considered very legit candidates when it happened. It's stupid to blame him for decisions that were pretty much consensus when they were made.

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04-09-2010, 01:40 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
Again, though, can you blame him?

Let's review:

-Savard: An off the radar choice that, by all accounts, did very well in a brief amount of time. Given what he had to recover from (Houle), I'd say he was a good steward and never got to finish what he started.

-Gainey: A no brainer hire at the time, the complete package. Unfortunately, never had the success he hoped, but that doesn't mean Gainey was the wrong hire in any world other than one with perfect hindsight.

-Gauthier: Been on the job for a couple months.

Honestly, I don't think he's made a single GM-related mistake so far.

As far as I can tell, he lets them spend to the cap, keeps the team rolling in cash and lets the GMs do what they think is best.

That's all you want in a president.
Let's review : a bunch of missed playoff appearances, most of the time they did make it, it was as number 7 and 8 seeds and 1 conference title with a big flop in the POs.

He can pick logical choices all he wants, if there are no results, WHY, after 10 years, should he keep making the GM choices? WHY?

And just the fact he didn't run many (if any) interviews to replace Gainey, that's a major sign of incompetence, or at least, not caring about getting the right people in place.

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04-09-2010, 01:50 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by MTLPacman67 View Post
Let's review : a bunch of missed playoff appearances, most of the time they did make it, it was as number 7 and 8 seeds and 1 conference title with a big flop in the POs.

He can pick logical choices all he wants, if there are no results, WHY, after 10 years, should he keep making the GM choices? WHY?

And just the fact he didn't run many (if any) interviews to replace Gainey, that's a major sign of incompetence, or at least, not caring about getting the right people in place.
Your entire argumentation resides on your belief that others, better GMs out there would have done a better job, and that another President would have find him. But that's your own hype. Your own speculation. Made in a position where you almost have none of the important information, while the actual stakeholders (the owners) have it all.

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04-09-2010, 01:52 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
Your entire argumentation resides on your belief that others, better GMs out there would have done a better job, and that another President would have find him. But that's your own hype. Your own speculation. Made in a position where you almost have none of the important information, while the actual stakeholders (the owners) have it all.
Jesus.

There no results. He's been time-tested now.

Could other GMs have done better? Maybe, maybe not. But if you're content with averageness, stay the course. We know he picks the right people for it.

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04-09-2010, 01:54 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
"Hires" doesn't mean "is fully responsible of". Companies don't that, for the simple reason that it is a piss poor way of handling your human resources. Boivin isn't involved in hockey decision: if you fire him, you lose his great knowledge of the Montreal market and his big success in making the habs a very hot entertainment item again after the loosy '90. From the point of view of the owners, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. This is ESPECIALLY true since all the GM Boivin hired were considered very legit candidates when it happened. It's stupid to blame him for decisions that were pretty much consensus when they were made.
Not blaming him about the decisions, but a change of president isn't the worse thing that can happen to the organisation. Boivin has done a great job at selling the tradition and the history of the canadiens. I think it's about time for some more glory and victory in this organisation. Hasn't happenned with Boivin as president. Change can be good, very good.

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04-09-2010, 02:17 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by MTLPacman67 View Post
Jesus.

There no results. He's been time-tested now.
You mean, like the franchise is super popular after so-so years in the '90? You mean, how the Bell Center became the second most booked theatre in North America?

Yeah, so little results. The Molsons must be really pissed by having a guy like that around.

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04-09-2010, 02:19 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Rated R Superstar View Post
Not blaming him about the decisions, but a change of president isn't the worse thing that can happen to the organisation. Boivin has done a great job at selling the tradition and the history of the canadiens. I think it's about time for some more glory and victory in this organisation. Hasn't happenned with Boivin as president. Change can be good, very good.
Sure, change can be good. But right now, people don't want Boivin out because "change can be good", they want him out because they fear we won't make the playoffs and they are looking for their spacegoat. Completely different contexts.

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04-09-2010, 02:20 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
You mean, like the franchise is super popular after so-so years in the '90? You mean, how the Bell Center became the second most booked theatre in North America.

Yeah, so little results. The Molsons must be really pissed by having a guy like that around.
I'm talking hockeywise.

Seems like people can't get that through their thick ****ing skull. Might as well bash my head against the wall, I might actually end up being able to have a good discussion around here.


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04-09-2010, 02:32 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by MTLPacman67 View Post
I'm talking hockeywise.

Seems like people can't get that through their thick ****ing skull. Might as well bash my head against the wall, I might actually end up being able to have a good discussion around here.

We get it, or at least I do.

I'm arguing that firing him on hockey merit is like firing the janitor because the taxes were done wrong.

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04-09-2010, 03:06 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by MTLPacman67 View Post
I'm talking hockeywise.
So you expect hockeywise results from someone who has no responsability hockeywise?

Quote:
Seems like people can't get that through their thick ****ing skull. Might as well bash my head against the wall, I might actually end up being able to have a good discussion around here.

Had it occured to you that the reason people keep bringing this is because it makes no sense to discuss Boivin hockey expertise? That the owners obviously won't evaluate his results based on hockey results? That is ridiculous to ask the head of someone when, clearly and very obviously, his bosses will evaluate him completely differently?

YOU are the one who want to put the blame of the habs on-ice product on him. Nobody has to follow your own personal expectations. You are responsible for believing your own hype, here and in life in general.

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04-09-2010, 03:12 PM
  #88
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Fire Youppie!! He's not cheering enough, we're losing. That's quite enough for me to judge!

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04-09-2010, 03:46 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
I think it's time we get on this... how many changes has this guy survived? I can't even remember but ever since he's been around we've been going back and forth into this vortex of bubbly... and not the good kind of Bubbly!

Regardless of if we make the playoffs or not, even if we have a good year next year this guy has not been able to put in place good management for this team since God knows when. Remember the year we finished 1st? Can Boivin...

It sucks that Boucher needs more experience with Hamilton



p.s. lol @ everyone who thought we were stuck in mediocracy because of Saku Fng Koivu


Free S. Kostitsyn
He is doing a terrific a job. Look at the business side on the habs and it is one of the best, if not best, hockey organization in the NHL in terms of business.

Look at the marketing side and you will understand what I am talking about. Notice, in the last 5 they have made hab fans get stuck to the habs history and logo more and forget the current team on the ice which has been terrible for the last 10 yrs. They are selling you the current team with the " exploit" of the past and they have been quite succesful doing it and hab fans have been buying it like ice cream in a nice and hot summer day.

If I am a CEO and looking for a president or president of Marketing, boivin is a serious candidate.

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04-09-2010, 05:06 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
We get it, or at least I do.

I'm arguing that firing him on hockey merit is like firing the janitor because the taxes were done wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
So you expect hockeywise results from someone who has no responsability hockeywise?


Had it occured to you that the reason people keep bringing this is because it makes no sense to discuss Boivin hockey expertise? That the owners obviously won't evaluate his results based on hockey results? That is ridiculous to ask the head of someone when, clearly and very obviously, his bosses will evaluate him completely differently?

YOU are the one who want to put the blame of the habs on-ice product on him. Nobody has to follow your own personal expectations. You are responsible for believing your own hype, here and in life in general.
Nah, the point isn't that we should fire him so the on-ice product changes NOW, it's that he's been responsible for the past 3 hires at GM, and if the on-ice product doesn't improve, he shouldn't be responsible for anything related to hiring/firing people in that area, which has the purpose of improving the on-ice product.

He could just be relegated to the business department. Or even better, keep him as president and get someone in as head of hockey operations that answers directly to the Molson's.

If something is broken (i.e. the whole direction of the team for the past 10-15 years), change the ****ing culture. Don't go sideways for the sake of change.

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04-09-2010, 05:45 PM
  #91
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Only in Quebec can the marketing guy think he's bigger than the Hockey operation of the team.

Agreed get the ****er out & send him back to selling Jos Louis cakes.

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04-09-2010, 08:00 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by MTLPacman67 View Post
Nah, the point isn't that we should fire him so the on-ice product changes NOW, it's that he's been responsible for the past 3 hires at GM, and if the on-ice product doesn't improve, he shouldn't be responsible for anything related to hiring/firing people in that area, which has the purpose of improving the on-ice product.

He could just be relegated to the business department. Or even better, keep him as president and get someone in as head of hockey operations that answers directly to the Molson's.

If something is broken (i.e. the whole direction of the team for the past 10-15 years), change the ****ing culture. Don't go sideways for the sake of change.
Lol oh man this guy really doesn't get it.

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04-09-2010, 08:39 PM
  #93
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Only in Quebec can the marketing guy think he's bigger than the Hockey operation of the team.

Agreed get the ****er out & send him back to selling Jos Louis cakes.
Marketing is what it is all about. The Canadiens make money many ways:Tickets, T.V rights, advertising, concessions (huge).... Programs, parking,souvenires, vintage sweaters, boxes, etc.

Next is going deep in the playoffs, easier said then done...29 other teams are trying the same thing.

So you have to at least get to the playoffs and make the extra money that they bring in. This is where it gets tricky...players get free agency and move on and are replaced by other players that are also free agents, if you can convince them to play in Montreal for x number of dollars.

You have to get under the cap, you have to draft well (development takes time and some players no matter how promising don't pan out....to small, party too much, get hurt, etc.

Now he gets criticized for saying bi lingual coaches etc....Now think about that one, if coaches only spoke french, what happens when he is questioned after games and before. He speaks and it has to be translated into english and he gets misquoted. Communication on the bench, referees, other teams the list goes on. He goes out of town into English speaking cities and there would be problems.

So bi lingual is the only way to go.

So the bottom line is to make money (he does) keep fans happy (big challenge) but if you give them hope they will come back next year and you give them more hope.

Fire coaches, so they can be hired somewhere else and you hire coaches that have been fired somewhere else. Remember coaches are hired to be fired. Boucher will come to Montreal and in a couple of years, he will be blamed for all problems and probably fired.

Everybody in the NHL has been fired at one time, look around.

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04-09-2010, 08:44 PM
  #94
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The Molsens would someday like to win a championship probably.

In the mean time they want to keep that cash cow pumping out the cash.

They have to make that profit every year to get a good return on their investment.

They spent almost 600 million dollars and they want the franchise to grow in value and maintain a cash flow over time.

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04-09-2010, 08:53 PM
  #95
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Does firing Boivin = scoring goals ?

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04-09-2010, 08:56 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Fire Youppie!! He's not cheering enough, we're losing. That's quite enough for me to judge!
Heck... I will second anyone who implies burning the big orange puke!

I did like him as an Expos though! We were 45 000+ in the Olympic stadium cheering, very loudly, for Moises Alou, Larry Walker, Marquis Grissom (steal the 3rd!), John Wetteland, Ken Hill, Jeff Fassero, Pedro Martínez, Mel Rojas, Darrin Fletcher, Sean Berry, Wil Cordero, Cliff Floyd, Mike Lansing, Rondell White, (...), and Felipe Alou.

In the MLB history, Montréal led the MLB two times; (3 times if you consider Jackie Robinson) both times, a strike occurred. I, like most Montréalais, told myself: screw the MLB.

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Ma...inal_standings


PS as underlined by Ozymandias: Pierre Boivin = wrong target!


Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 04-10-2010 at 02:30 AM.
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04-09-2010, 09:01 PM
  #97
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ATTENTION EVERYONE!!! JOIN MY FACEBOOK GROUP, I MADE A PETITION BASICALLY TO HAVE PIERRE BOIVIN FIRED AS PRESIDENT....


http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...00159816694649

Join and inviote ALL friends. thanks.

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04-09-2010, 09:09 PM
  #98
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It has probably already been said, but Gainey quit, he wasn't fired.

Boivin has done one thing during his tenure with the Habs, and that is to pretty much give them a license to print money. That's his job, and he's very good at it. He's been the reason why the Habs have been able to consistently spend to as close to the cap as possible without having the owner's head explode; hell they even got to send million dollar players down to the minors for sucking. Laraque is currently being paid big money to sit on his couch and watch the game on TV... Why would anyone want him fired?

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04-09-2010, 09:50 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
Again, though, can you blame him?

Let's review:

-Savard: An off the radar choice that, by all accounts, did very well in a brief amount of time. Given what he had to recover from (Houle), I'd say he was a good steward and never got to finish what he started.

-Gainey: A no brainer hire at the time, the complete package. Unfortunately, never had the success he hoped, but that doesn't mean Gainey was the wrong hire in any world other than one with perfect hindsight.

-Gauthier: Been on the job for a couple months.

Honestly, I don't think he's made a single GM-related mistake so far.

As far as I can tell, he lets them spend to the cap, keeps the team rolling in cash and lets the GMs do what they think is best.

That's all you want in a president.
Exactly. Boivin is not at fault at all. His main job is MARKETING people. Besides, any major hiring or firing (coaches or GMs for instance) has to be approved by the owners. Also, this team was assembled by Gainey, who was worshipped by pretty much everyone here. Gauthier hasn't done anything yet, except the Moore trade, which turned out to be pretty good.

It's normal to be bitter the way things are going right now, but some of you are just grasping at straws here... Why not demand to fire the Bell Centre janitors while you're at it? Or the people who seel beer down the aisles?

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04-09-2010, 10:14 PM
  #100
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mis-directed anger. completely. There have been some really smart, well-thought out posts about how Boivin has done his job and made all the right decisions, but the only reason given for his firing that I've seen repeatedly:

team is not the washington capitals...

THAT'S NOT HIS FAULT

the worst you can accuse him of his hiring GM's (which I don't think he does by himself BTW)

I am happy with all the GMs he's hired. Oh and why is Gauthier suddenly a bad GM for doing NOTHING (in a good way) except getting Moore?

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