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Why are Leaf fans so hard on Defencemen? Is Dion next?

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04-09-2010, 03:41 PM
  #1
Leaf Shaker
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Why are Leaf fans so hard on Defencemen? Is Dion next?

First there was Larry Murphy.

Then Dave Ellett

Then Bryan McCabe.

I mean, these were superstar defencemen.

There were many more in between these guys.

Is Dion next?

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04-09-2010, 03:42 PM
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you forgot kaberle.

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04-09-2010, 03:44 PM
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htpwn
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McCabe + superstar defenseman =

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04-09-2010, 03:45 PM
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Kaberle has got his fair share of flamage as of late.

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04-09-2010, 03:47 PM
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Down Goes Brown
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Leaf fans were never that hard on Dave Ellett.

Basically we hated Murphy because was terrible in Toronto. Awful. I have no idea why, but he was just truly horrific when he was here, and deserved to be booed.

McCabe was booed as much for what he came to represent -- the Muskoka Five. I don't understand why fans still boo him today, but at the time it wasn't unreasonable.

That's two guys in 20 years.

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04-09-2010, 03:48 PM
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LOL BRYAN MCCABE A SUPERSTAR??

I want some of what your smoking

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04-09-2010, 03:49 PM
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It's not just defensemen. It's everyone. I think we're just a cranky bunch.

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04-09-2010, 03:50 PM
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robr00
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Why?

The Leafs have the 29th worst defencive stats in the league. That's why.

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04-09-2010, 03:51 PM
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Baba Ganoush
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mccabe was treated brutally by the fans at the games. it was annoying.

everyone seems to be in love with Phaneuf so far, but he's new, so...it's expected. if Phaneuf's play doesn't improve, and people actually start to notice he's not playing that well, than i don't see why he won't be the next McCabe.

Phaneuf is basically the same player as McCabe, only costs more $$. the big difference is his age,

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04-09-2010, 03:53 PM
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Down Goes Brown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lapniappe View Post
It's not just defensemen. It's everyone. I think we're just a cranky bunch.
But are we?

I've always found it odd that Leaf fans are considered too docile, too easy to please, too willing to embrace losing... but also somehow too demanding and willing to run guys out of town.

Never really figured out how that works. I think we're pretty middle-of-the-road, to be honest.

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04-09-2010, 04:13 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Down Goes Brown View Post
Leaf fans were never that hard on Dave Ellett.

Basically we hated Murphy because was terrible in Toronto. Awful. I have no idea why, but he was just truly horrific when he was here, and deserved to be booed.

McCabe was booed as much for what he came to represent -- the Muskoka Five. I don't understand why fans still boo him today, but at the time it wasn't unreasonable.

That's two guys in 20 years.
There were many in between.

I thought Karpotsev was awesome, but was he ever the whipping boy here.

Aki Berg was a pretty good shutdown guy, but he wasn't spared either.

I think Tommy Kurvers got it before everyone too.

Sure we come down on some other players too, but not like the way we come down on defencemen especially.

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04-09-2010, 04:41 PM
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If he plays like ****, he'll get it too.

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04-09-2010, 05:13 PM
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Play terrible, get treated terrible

Simple

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04-09-2010, 05:18 PM
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theirs no such thing as a perfect defenceman , not even close. even lidstrom gets burned just not as much as the rest. toronto fans truly don't see this and always think the other guys on other teams are better. yusky was booed here for his 1st 2 or or 3 yrs , he was just a kid. lumme, berg, todd gill, jamie mcCoun , the list goes on and on. its always bothered me.

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04-09-2010, 05:20 PM
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to answer your question , the fans will eventually turn on him no matter how good he plays .

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04-09-2010, 05:25 PM
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For decades there has indeed been a pattern of Leaf fans picking a scapegoat on the blueline. Sometimes they have been very good defenders elsewhere. Sometimes, as with Larry Murphy, the become very good defensemen again when they are traded to a new team. But Leaf fans do dump on them, whether it is Todd Gill, Murphy, Cross, Berg, Lumme, the later McCabe or the various candidates for this unenviable role now. The scapegoat is sometime not all that good a defender and does indeed make mistakes, as all players do, but there is a concentrated venom in fan reaction that is disproportionate. I think it is the cumulative effect of, now, 43 years of frustration.

It is not an admirable collective quality.

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04-09-2010, 05:58 PM
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This is what most fans do when they are not very hokcey knowledgable. I say this because when D make mistakes it is more notiecable as it usually will lead to a goal closer to that mistake. Fans do not realize that their is much more problems that D man but the always seem to pick on them. STUPID!

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04-09-2010, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baba Ganoush View Post
mccabe was treated brutally by the fans at the games. it was annoying.

everyone seems to be in love with Phaneuf so far, but he's new, so...it's expected. if Phaneuf's play doesn't improve, and people actually start to notice he's not playing that well, than i don't see why he won't be the next McCabe.

Phaneuf is basically the same player as McCabe, only costs more $$. the big difference is his age,
I'm sorry but Phaneuf is a way better player than Mccabe. Give me a break hes bigger, strogner, younger, hits harder and is a much better skater. Don't compare those two players.

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04-09-2010, 06:17 PM
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Why?

The Leafs have the 29th worst defencive stats in the league. That's why.
*cough* coaching staff *cough*

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04-09-2010, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baba Ganoush View Post
mccabe was treated brutally by the fans at the games. it was annoying.

everyone seems to be in love with Phaneuf so far, but he's new, so...it's expected. if Phaneuf's play doesn't improve, and people actually start to notice he's not playing that well, than i don't see why he won't be the next McCabe.

Phaneuf is basically the same player as McCabe, only costs more $$. the big difference is his age,
I agree with this all.

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04-09-2010, 06:29 PM
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suddenly Aki Berg and Jyrki Lumme were unjustly wronged, eh? Looks like a little bit of confusing good players who were booed with just plain bad players who were booed.

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04-09-2010, 06:37 PM
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daveleaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baba Ganoush View Post
mccabe was treated brutally by the fans at the games. it was annoying.

everyone seems to be in love with Phaneuf so far, but he's new, so...it's expected. if Phaneuf's play doesn't improve, and people actually start to notice he's not playing that well, than i don't see why he won't be the next McCabe.

Phaneuf is basically the same player as McCabe, only costs more $$. the big difference is his age,
No. Phaneuf is a much more physical player than McCabe, will drop the gloves. McCabes famous move, can opener, was caught on by many, players and refs. I would not call the two the same. Phaneuf will not back down but you are right. If by this time next year his game has not rounded out fans may start to loose patience but lets cut the guy some slack. He actually has a heart beat, he cares, he wants to win. The other fellow was right, McCabe had some good years in TO but he was tied to the muskoka five and probably one of the more outspoken players toward Fletcher. That is where the boos came from.

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04-09-2010, 06:39 PM
  #23
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One of my most vivid memories from Maple Leaf Gardens was one game when I got to sit in the reds (I usually sat in the greys) and I think it was against the Blues and everytime Murphy touched the puck, everyone in my section booed so loudly. It was hilariously cruel, but Murphy did suck the big one when he was a leaf (although I would argue that Phil Housley was even worse in his brief stint).

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04-09-2010, 06:44 PM
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daveleaf
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Was it the defence men or management/coaches that failed to realize what the players strengths were and to put him in a system that was not geared to their strengths. Murphy at the end of his career was a little slower, still a great passer. Forwards left him to hang out and dry and he got burnt on the outside by faster players, goes to Detroit where their system was to have forwards help out and he was his old self again. I don't blame the players. I blame coaches and management for not putting them into positions where they can be successful.

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04-09-2010, 06:49 PM
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Epictetus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
No. Phaneuf is a much more physical player than McCabe, will drop the gloves. McCabes famous move, can opener, was caught on by many, players and refs. I would not call the two the same. Phaneuf will not back down but you are right. If by this time next year his game has not rounded out fans may start to loose patience but lets cut the guy some slack. He actually has a heart beat, he cares, he wants to win. The other fellow was right, McCabe had some good years in TO but he was tied to the muskoka five and probably one of the more outspoken players toward Fletcher. That is where the boos came from.
From what i've seen and the way his career has gone, Phaneuf does not seem like the fighting type any more. More of an agitator, imo.

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