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Why we shouldnt sign Frolov....

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Old
04-10-2010, 12:51 PM
  #51
robr00
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I agree with the OP. Who needs a top 6 skilled forward? Definitely not the Leafs...


The Leafs are great as it is!

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04-10-2010, 12:53 PM
  #52
John-Eric Iannicello
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The only thing I'd have against Frolov signing here is that he'll be getting paid huge on the UFA market.

The lack of high quality UFA's remaining on the market will drive his price up IMO.

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04-10-2010, 12:54 PM
  #53
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The Grabovski comparison is absurd. Grabovski is a center whos small, weak on the puck, suspect defensively, has questionable hockey sense and not strong along the boards. Frolov is a winger whos got good size, strong defensively, strong on the puck, good hockey sense and a beast along the boards. Really they are at 2 different ends of the spectrum in terms of style. Frolov is a much better player then Grabovski. He does so many things well that dont show up on the stat sheet.

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04-10-2010, 01:35 PM
  #54
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I think if Burke can't get a trade for Kaberle involving a top 6 forward coming the Leafs way, then they should go after Frolov. Hopefully they could sign him for 3.5 if so, but his contract would probabally be closer to 4-4.5 Million.

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04-10-2010, 01:53 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraham Simpson View Post
I think if Burke can't get a trade for Kaberle involving a top 6 forward coming the Leafs way, then they should go after Frolov. Hopefully they could sign him for 3.5 if so, but his contract would probabally be closer to 4-4.5 Million.
I see there being no chance Frolov signs for 3.5 million. 5ish is more realistic on the UFA market.

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04-10-2010, 02:38 PM
  #56
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I'd sign him for 4-4.5, but I don't think he's worth 5.... but maybe that's just me. I think frolov for 4.5 over like 4/5 years would be a good signing..... but again. Just my thoughts. OH! I almost forgot



I'll just leave this here

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04-10-2010, 02:53 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-Eric Iannicello View Post
The only thing I'd have against Frolov signing here is that he'll be getting paid huge on the UFA market.

The lack of high quality UFA's remaining on the market will drive his price up IMO.
I think 4.5 should be more than fair.

I'm sure many teams are aware of the weak free agency crop.

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04-10-2010, 02:54 PM
  #58
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Frolov is a good player but I don't like the negativity surrounding him. Lazy players don't help win stanley cups. I would have much rather kept Antropov or Ponikarovski then go after Frolov. Frolov will chew up cap space that can be better used in my oppinion.

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04-10-2010, 04:24 PM
  #59
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Oh really? That must be why he has 32 assists this year. Or why he had 44 in 07-08.

Or why he's had more assists than goals 4 of the last 5 seasons.

Come on.



You obviously have no idea what you're talking about with Frolov, so let's move on to Kessel. Kessel has 30 goals this season, but he also has 25 assists in 69 games. He is a better shooter, but clearly isn't one-dimensional. Secondly, why are you trying to claim a team only needs one player to put the puck in the net? Absolutely ridiculous.

Frolov would be a terrific complement to the Leafs attack precisely because he can pass the puck well on top of being 30 goal+ capable. I'm not saying Burke likes him or will sign him, I'm talking strictly in terms of skills.

They aren't the same player at all, and even if they were you can bet a lot of teams would love to have 2 Kessels.
So Frolov gets 30-40 assists and I'm supposed to call him a playmaker? Frolov is not a playmaking type player imo. I mean, Jason Blake has had more assists than goals in 4 of his last 5 seasons. Should we have kept him to setup Kessel?

Also you claiming Kessel as NOT a one dimensional player is wrong imo. If Kessel doesn't put the puck in the net, he does very little else. Yes, he provides a presence no matter what but he doesn't pass the puck well, he doesn't forecheck, doesn't backcheck, can't kill penalties, etc. 25 assists doesn't make you a "2" dimensional player. Many of those assists aren't really quality ones where Kessel shows that he is an unselfish hockey player.

I also fail to see how Frolov will be a consistent 30+ goal scorer with the Leafs where he has little to no support. In LA, there is no arguing he has far better support. The same argument could have been made for Kessel (in Boston) but like I said earlier, Kessel is just more skilled than Frolov is. Kessel has more speed and a better shot. Frolov may do a couple of other things better than Kessel in terms of defense and forechecking but if he doesn't have the proper players to play with, he is a 20 goal scorer like he is now.

Never once did I say the Leafs needed only one goal scorer, they do but they also don't need a team where everyone wants the puck either. You need a balance. Frolov is not the worst thing the Leafs can do, but it's not exactly an ideal move imo.

I understand why people want Frolov as he is a skilled player, something the Leafs can use but spending another 5 million on a player that can be enigmatic is something I can live without. I am willing to be patient here. If Kaberle gets dealt, it likely gives another good young player. The young player might be a winger that can put the puck in the net at only the fraction of the price of what Frolov would cost us.

If the Leafs had at least a good center that can play on the top line and we had Bozak as our #2, maybe I would be more inclined to sign Frolov.

I am not a Frolov expert and I don't watch all his games, I'm just giving you my opinion. If you don't agree that's fine by me Volcano.


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Old
04-10-2010, 04:26 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardn View Post
Frolov is a good player but I don't like the negativity surrounding him. Lazy players don't help win stanley cups. I would have much rather kept Antropov or Ponikarovski then go after Frolov. Frolov will chew up cap space that can be better used in my oppinion.
As fans I think we have to face the fact that next year is not going to be overly pretty again. We're going to be watching more growing pains next year. With weak free agency crops, and very little in the way of trade-bait, I suspect that unless BB does something monumental in the Off-Season, the team we have today will be relatively unchanged for puck drop in October. The effort level is certainly there, we just don't have the skill.

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04-10-2010, 05:03 PM
  #61
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With the FA market being what it is, and plenty of teams needing offense, I see a high price for Frolov. I've always thought Frolov should be the guy to go after, for 4-4.5 a year, hopefully long-term.

If you look at the big trades Burke has made, you can see he goes after young, promising players who for whatever reason have had their trade value lowered. Frolov is coming off a season where his numbers have been down, and that seems like an ideal target for Burke, who seems to prefer gettin good young players sooner rather than later.

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04-10-2010, 06:05 PM
  #62
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Frolov is a perfect fit to what Burke is looking for in a top 6 winger and it's clear that many here haven't watched him play.

How many people here know that Frolov's strength is in the corners cycling the puck and stick handling by defenders making plays off the boards?

Frolov is the faster version of Antropov with better hands in finishing scoring chances. Frolov will sign somewhere at 4 years 4 to 4.5 he wont get 5 and at that number he's a perfect fit for the Leafs with either Bozak or Kadri.

These 2 kids will be the teams 1 and 2 centers Grabovski will be traded watch and see. I'll even go as far to say that if Frolov doesn't resign with L.A he will be Burke's #1 target in the UFA market.

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04-10-2010, 06:10 PM
  #63
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i'd rather find another wallet than sign Frolov.

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04-11-2010, 09:31 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Shanty View Post
As fans I think we have to face the fact that next year is not going to be overly pretty again. We're going to be watching more growing pains next year. With weak free agency crops, and very little in the way of trade-bait, I suspect that unless BB does something monumental in the Off-Season, the team we have today will be relatively unchanged for puck drop in October. The effort level is certainly there, we just don't have the skill.
I think the Leafs have some skill but not the strength to go along with it.

Kadri, Kessel, Bozak are skilled forwards.
Kulemin has skill, but not in the finesse vernacular.
Caputi I didn't see enough from to know how he'll play out.
Stalberg is a cut below the skilled category, but he looks to have that 2-3 line capability.

Kadri, Kessel, and Bozak are are extreme lightweights, and that is the issue for their skilled players. Not that they lack skill, but that they lack size. Kind of like the Habs, except half a decade younger.

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04-11-2010, 09:39 AM
  #65
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I like Frolov, but i highly doubt Burke signs him.

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04-11-2010, 09:54 AM
  #66
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All UFAs seem to get about $1M per season more than they're really worth. I guess that comes from the attraction of getting something for nothing (meaning no roster players, prospects or picks need to be given up).

I'm starting to think that trades will be the better way for Burke to go this summer. This year's available UFA forward group is pretty underwhelming... and definitely not worth overpaying for. One or two solid players for Kaberle and maybe another forward from a cap strapped team in a salary dump could make a huge difference on next season's roster... while still providing lots of opportunity for the young guys to move into key roles.

The UFAs should be left alone until we grow into a contender organically (through player development)... when one key guy can push us into the upper echelon. We are obviously nowhere near that place right now.

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04-11-2010, 10:03 AM
  #67
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All UFAs seem to get about $1M per season more than they're really worth. I guess that comes from the attraction of getting something for nothing (meaning no roster players, prospects or picks need to be given up).

I'm starting to think that trades will be the better way for Burke to go this summer. This year's available UFA forward group is pretty underwhelming... and definitely not worth overpaying for. One or two solid players for Kaberle and maybe another forward from a cap strapped team in a salary dump could make a huge difference on next season's roster... while still providing lots of opportunity for the young guys to move into key roles.

The UFAs should be left alone until we grow into a contender organically (through player development)... when one key guy can push us into the upper echelon. We are obviously nowhere near that place right now.
How many of the best players are drafted after the 2nd. round?

How are the Leafs going to get those top end players if they don't even get to play the draft game?

How many teams are going to give up a Phaneuf for depth players?

How many teams are going to give up a potential top 6 forward for a 32 year old player on the last year of his contract?

I would prefer to build through the draft, but Burke doesn't. His actions tell us he doesn't.

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04-11-2010, 10:33 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
How many of the best players are drafted after the 2nd. round?

How are the Leafs going to get those top end players if they don't even get to play the draft game?

How many teams are going to give up a Phaneuf for depth players?

How many teams are going to give up a potential top 6 forward for a 32 year old player on the last year of his contract?

I would prefer to build through the draft, but Burke doesn't. His actions tell us he doesn't.
I didn't say anything about building through the draft... although I'm sure that will be an element of Burke's long-term plan. The guy has hired lots of new scouts and I'm guessing that he did it for a reason.

I said that they should make trades and continue to develop the young guys that they already have. Since every UFA is essentially overpaid... you've got to wait for the true difference makers (rather than overpaying for 3rd line guys).

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04-11-2010, 11:06 AM
  #69
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I wouldn't mind Frolov coming here

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04-11-2010, 08:34 PM
  #70
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frolov is a very good 2way player and is pretty physical ...he would be a very nice addition to our forward group....but the only drwa back is what could be the price since hes a ufa in a very weak ufa group this year and he's a pretty young ufa...if he can be had at 4mil or less i say get him

either way thoughi say hes a plan b ....behind gettimng guys in threw trade....we gotta see what we get for kabs....imo grabo has to go and i say package him withg other assetts for something good....also i would deal 1 of beauchemin or komi ....becasue we have to many defensive physical dman...and we need a puckmoving offensivly minded guy to replace kabs....so i think 1 of them could get us a good forward that might be slightly overpaid from a team that needs a top 4 d but doesnt have cap space....i think maybe hartnell from phuilly or clowe from san jose could work

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04-11-2010, 08:42 PM
  #71
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Still praying for Kovalchuk.

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04-11-2010, 08:46 PM
  #72
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I said that they should make trades and continue to develop the young guys that they already have. Since every UFA is essentially overpaid... you've got to wait for the true difference makers (rather than overpaying for 3rd line guys).
This is why I suggested they go after someone like Gaborik last year when he was available. His contract is reasonable considering the calibre of player he is.

Other than Gaborik, who is the last elite UFA? Heck, even the Sedins re-signed in Vancouver.

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04-11-2010, 08:51 PM
  #73
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Still praying for Kovalchuk.
I swear to god you mention him one more time in these boards or in real life I'm gonna beat you senseless

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04-11-2010, 09:09 PM
  #74
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I swear to god you mention him one more time in these boards or in real life I'm gonna beat you senseless

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04-11-2010, 09:20 PM
  #75
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When he signs with LA in the summer (Or Moscow) then you never speak of him being a leaf again..... ever

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