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realistic big name players to be traded.

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05-09-2004, 05:31 PM
  #1
SabresRule
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realistic big name players to be traded.

Satan, Lindros, Shanahan, Hull are ones i can see possibly being moved.

Satan is the least likely.

any more?

the reason i say this is that this is the biggest offseason in a while, and many big name players will be moved or voice discontents in the hope of being moved. Teams like Tampa, SJ, Calgary well be the Detriots, Colorado's and NJ's of tommorrow. sorry to sound a bit philisofical (sp) , but the circle is sorta complete.


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05-09-2004, 05:36 PM
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Thornton won't get moved.

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05-09-2004, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresRule
Thornton, Satan, Lindros, Shanahan, Hull are ones i can see possibly being moved.

Satan is the least likely.
I do not think that is realistic at all.

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05-09-2004, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Defender
I do not think that is realistic at all.
i was goin by these boards and the fact his none apparent in the playoffs, sorry for the misunderstanding.

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05-09-2004, 06:27 PM
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New York has a team option on Lindros this summer, they won't excersize it (it's like for $11 million). He'll be UFA, and untradeable.

If a Ranger gets moved at the draft, it's likely to be Holik (whom Sather hates), Poti, or Lundmark. But I can't imagine anyone offering a useful package of picks for Holik's mega-contract, and Poti and Lundmark's trade value is in the toilet after both players had sub-par years.

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05-09-2004, 07:00 PM
  #6
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Some players that may be shopped:

Sergei Gonchar - are they gonna pay him 6+ a season?
Jeff O'Neill - change of scenery might do justice
Bill Guerin - I think they would like to drop the $9 miilion a season
Roman Hamrlik - they need help up front
Chris Pronger - more of a pipe dream but the Blues may not want to dish out 10 million per.
Pavol Demitra - seems more logical to keep Pronger
Olaf Kolzig - some teams (Sens, Blues, Avs, Rags) realize they need a goalie.

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05-09-2004, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMo
Some players that may be shopped:

Sergei Gonchar - are they gonna pay him 6+ a season?
Jeff O'Neill - change of scenery might do justice
Bill Guerin - I think they would like to drop the $9 miilion a season
Roman Hamrlik - they need help up front
Chris Pronger - more of a pipe dream but the Blues may not want to dish out 10 million per.
Pavol Demitra - seems more logical to keep Pronger
Olaf Kolzig - some teams (Sens, Blues, Avs, Rags) realize they need a goalie.


If the Blues received the right offer, Pronger, along with Demitra and Tkachuk are gone. If possible, you'll see a very differant team next season.

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05-09-2004, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubera55
But I can't imagine anyone offering a useful package of picks for Holik's mega-contract

I don't see anyone even willing to touch Holik with that contract, let alone a "useful package" as you put it.

......If there is a hard cap put into place, Holik could end up a buyout.....maybe not this year depending on the Rangers payroll situation, but probably the following year.

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05-10-2004, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMo
Some players that may be shopped:

Sergei Gonchar - are they gonna pay him 6+ a season?
Jeff O'Neill - change of scenery might do justice
Bill Guerin - I think they would like to drop the $9 miilion a season
Roman Hamrlik - they need help up front
Chris Pronger - more of a pipe dream but the Blues may not want to dish out 10 million per.
Pavol Demitra - seems more logical to keep Pronger
Olaf Kolzig - some teams (Sens, Blues, Avs, Rags) realize they need a goalie.
If Guerin goes, then there's a HUGE possibility that Modano, Arnott, Turgeon, Zubov or even Lehtinen will also go.

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05-10-2004, 02:12 AM
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I think some of the typical higher seeds will see changes. Senators, Leafs, Devils I would think will change. Then in the west the Blues, Stars, and Wings should all change - could be a major shift in the balance of power some where.... anybody think of any teams ready to step up and pick up a couple big salaries to improve? I could see a team like Columbus and Atlanta trying to get some major fan attention. Florida maybe as well.... Wouldn't Lehtinen be a perfect line-mate for Kovalchuk and Savard and then have Heatley forming with Kozlov to form a great second line? lots of potential for change I would think.

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05-10-2004, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubera55
If a Ranger gets moved at the draft, it's likely to be Holik (whom Sather hates)
Where are getting this from?

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05-10-2004, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
Where are getting this from?
Speculation only. But it seems amply supported by Holik's repeated trashing of the organization in the press, and Sather's treatment of the $9 million man on the ice while he was coach. (Slashing his ice time, limiting his PP time, refusing to line-match with him, etc.)

As for Holik being bought out, I think it's highly unlikely. The Rangers would lose him entirely and be forced to pay him millions, only to watch him resign (probably) with the Devils. Cablevision is not going to do that. I think the most likely scenario has the Rangers waiting a year or so and then trading him while eating a portion of his salary. If the Rangers eat 2-4 million a season, his contract comes much more in line with his production, and teams will bid for him.

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05-10-2004, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubera55
Speculation only. But it seems amply supported by Holik's repeated trashing of the organization in the press, and Sather's treatment of the $9 million man on the ice while he was coach. (Slashing his ice time, limiting his PP time, refusing to line-match with him, etc.)

As for Holik being bought out, I think it's highly unlikely. The Rangers would lose him entirely and be forced to pay him millions, only to watch him resign (probably) with the Devils. Cablevision is not going to do that. I think the most likely scenario has the Rangers waiting a year or so and then trading him while eating a portion of his salary. If the Rangers eat 2-4 million a season, his contract comes much more in line with his production, and teams will bid for him.
My response:

1) Sather has said that he will consult with both Jagr and Holik on decisions this summer.

2) Holik spoke out because he knows what it takes to win. He did make an effort to take about the team as "we" not "they" and he put plenty of blame on himself.

3) Sather did match lines. Well neither did the two previous coaches he hired. No surprise there.

4) The Rangers are not going to buy out Holik. In fact, I think he remains very much in their plans (whatever they might be)

5) Holik is simply looking for a role (not a ridiculous request for an established NHL player).

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05-10-2004, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubera55
Speculation only. But it seems amply supported by Holik's repeated trashing of the organization in the press, and Sather's treatment of the $9 million man on the ice while he was coach. (Slashing his ice time, limiting his PP time, refusing to line-match with him, etc.)

As for Holik being bought out, I think it's highly unlikely. The Rangers would lose him entirely and be forced to pay him millions, only to watch him resign (probably) with the Devils. Cablevision is not going to do that. I think the most likely scenario has the Rangers waiting a year or so and then trading him while eating a portion of his salary. If the Rangers eat 2-4 million a season, his contract comes much more in line with his production, and teams will bid for him.
I think they would have to eat more like 5 or 6 million dollars before they could trade Holik. 9 million dollars for a 3rd line is crazy, granted he was prob the best 3rd line center in the NHL but that is what he is. And I can't imagine any team paying him more than 4 million a year.

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05-10-2004, 10:36 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17
I think they would have to eat more like 5 or 6 million dollars before they could trade Holik. 9 million dollars for a 3rd line is crazy, granted he was prob the best 3rd line center in the NHL but that is what he is. And I can't imagine any team paying him more than 4 million a year.
While I agree that Holik's WAY overpaid, there were at least 2 other teams willing to pay Holik $8M when he was a UFA (Devils, Leafs). I realize that was a couple of years ago, and the impending CBA changes things dramatically, but let's keep things in prespective.

Also, Holik led the Rangers in scoring, was a + player, and like Davisian said, he is willing to be a vocal leader. He had more than double the goal production, and was more of physical force than $4M Mike Peca. He also outproduced another $4M center in Chris Drury. I'm not saying that he's worth $9M, but Bobby Holik is playing exactly like I hoped when he was signed by the Rangers. He might be overpaid, but at least he is producing, unlike most UFA signings.

Also, what 3rd players in the NHL scored 56 pts last year with 41 of them coming at even strength? Add in his defensive awareness, physical presence, and F/O % and I can't see calling him a 3rd line player (although he would be an outstanding 3rd line center).

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05-10-2004, 11:05 AM
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'Blues, I think you misunderstand me. I'm not suggesting the Rangers should be getting rid of Holik. I recognize the asset he is (even if his attitude is often detremental). I'm merely speculating that Holik is not on Sather's 'team' these days. Sather is big into loyalty, and Holik, at least to my observation, hasn't exactly been kissing the big shiny Edmonton Ring on Sather's finger for quite awhile. And that sort of behavoir rarely seems to go down lightly with Sather.

As for him planning to 'consult Jagr and Holik' . . . well if he keeps him for a year then yes. He probably will talk to him. Holik's already almost suicidal, and if Sather ever wants to trade him for any kind of value, he needs him on board. But I don't think that his promise at the end of the season to consult him in any way protects him if a decent offer wanders by.

As for what the Rangers would have to pay to get rid of him . . . as others have posted, Holik is worth at least $5 million a season. He's a 60ish point center with size, speed, attitude, defense, and face-off skills. Hell, at $5 million a season he's almost a bargain. So if the Rangers eat 3-4 million off his contract when he's only got two years left (after next season) then a committing team will get him for a commitment of what, $10-12 million over two year? People will get interested in that, in a hurry. And certainly that's a better option than buying him out for even more money and getting nothing back.

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05-10-2004, 11:12 AM
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Personally, I think there will be little to no player moment (at least in terms of big contract players) until after the CBA is settled.

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05-10-2004, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubera55
'Blues, I think you misunderstand me. I'm not suggesting the Rangers should be getting rid of Holik. I recognize the asset he is (even if his attitude is often detremental). I'm merely speculating that Holik is not on Sather's 'team' these days. Sather is big into loyalty, and Holik, at least to my observation, hasn't exactly been kissing the big shiny Edmonton Ring on Sather's finger for quite awhile. And that sort of behavoir rarely seems to go down lightly with Sather.

As for him planning to 'consult Jagr and Holik' . . . well if he keeps him for a year then yes. He probably will talk to him. Holik's already almost suicidal, and if Sather ever wants to trade him for any kind of value, he needs him on board. But I don't think that his promise at the end of the season to consult him in any way protects him if a decent offer wanders by.

As for what the Rangers would have to pay to get rid of him . . . as others have posted, Holik is worth at least $5 million a season. He's a 60ish point center with size, speed, attitude, defense, and face-off skills. Hell, at $5 million a season he's almost a bargain. So if the Rangers eat 3-4 million off his contract when he's only got two years left (after next season) then a committing team will get him for a commitment of what, $10-12 million over two year? People will get interested in that, in a hurry. And certainly that's a better option than buying him out for even more money and getting nothing back.

I don't think that Holik is detrimental to the Rangers by speaking up. It's what Mark Messier should have done from day one of Mess Version 2.0. Its what Mess would have done if Sather was not the GM. As far as being on Sather's "team", which Rangers do you really think are? There are a ton of kids looking to make a play at a job in the NHL. But who really is going on his team with Mess presumably gone. And if Sather can't take a player (who he coveted, targeted and ultimately overpaid for) saying what the play on the ice and the wins and lose columns say then its time for Sather to strap on a pair. Holik has won more recently than Sather has. And Sather is so into loyalty that he traded Brian Leetch some someone who more than likely was on his team. Bottom line for both Sather and Holik, win some damn games.

Personally, I'm not eating any of Holik's salary. Its not a good use of assets. If Holik is indeed suicidal let him give up some money and then agree to restructure his contract with the team that he goes to. I think he still has value to this team. If wants to go, he's gotta make it happen.

Bottom line for both Sather and Holik:

1) Grow up. If you, Glen, can't take a guy questioning a team that has underachieved for 7 seasons all the while doing the same thing, take five minutes in the corner, have a cookie and deal with it.

2) Grow up. If you, Bobby, are so unhappy, return the Porsche you just bought, give up some money, restructure you're contract and make it worth while for a team to get you and for the Rangers to trade you. No one forced you here.

3) Grow up. Both of you. Win some damn games and the problems will more of less take care of themselves.

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05-10-2004, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Personally, I think there will be little to no player moment (at least in terms of big contract players) until after the CBA is settled.
this is the truth. there is not coal for the offseason hotstove league til there is a cba.

the only players that could be traded are the few players that are under contract for more than another year and are not paid more than what management thinks will be a fair deal in the new landscape.

any player that is not signed past this next season is a serious risk of becoming UFA before he plays his next NHL game if there is no season next year. not GM is going to make a deal that requires hockey next year to have value.

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05-10-2004, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresRule
Satan, Lindros, Shanahan, Hull are ones i can see possibly being moved.
IIRC, Hull and Shanahan have team options - if Detroit doesn't pick those options up (and it's quite likely they won't), then both will be UFA. (Unless you're talking about their rights being traded to another team before July 1 so that team can negotiate a deal in advance....but I don't see that happening - especially if either has a NTC.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMo
Chris Pronger - more of a pipe dream but the Blues may not want to dish out 10 million per.
Pavol Demitra - seems more logical to keep Pronger
Let's put this rumor to rest once and for all: the Blues will NOT trade Pronger or his rights unless Pronger requests it. Since his wife is from St. Louis, her roots are *very* deep there, and he's repeatedly expressed his desire to raise his kids there, he'd have to go to Bill Laurie and ask to be traded....and that won't happen. (Yes, he could go play in another city while the wife and kids stay in St. Louis....but he's not about to do that to his wife. Trust me on this.)

So to recap: Pronger will be a Bluenote in '04-05, '05-06, and so on. End of discussion.

Demitra is as good as gone - he *won't* be qualified by the Blues unless it's for the purpose of trading his rights to another team. There a .01% chance he'll be back in '04-05....but I wouldn't put any sum of money on that.

AFA Weight and Tkachuk, I think one or both will be dealt with the Blues likely having to eat salary in the 1st season.

And someone mentioned Joseph coming back to the Blues in another thread. Forget it - Pleau doesn't want him and wouldn't bring him back at any price.

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