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Part IV Phoenix Coyotes post bankrtuptcy; UPD COG approves Reinsdorf MOU, not IEH MOU

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04-10-2010, 01:27 PM
  #1
LadyStanley
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Part IV Phoenix Coyotes post bankrtuptcy; UPD COG approves Reinsdorf MOU, not IEH MOU

In which our previous threads discussed a lot of history, links galore. (Immediately previous thread: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=755553)

Summarizing the latest news: On 4/9, IEH and GH (JR) signed MOUs with the city of Glendale. These will be voted on Tuesday 4/13. One or both might be approved. Approved MOUs would then head to BOG for approval of owner, and all that jazz.


http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...-glendale.html
Arizona Republic looks at Jobing.com which was the harbinger of development in the Glendale area for Ellman.


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04-10-2010, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billy blaze View Post
2 MOU posted on Glendale website

http://www.glendaleaz.com/
Here are the MOUs submitted (from previous thread)

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04-10-2010, 01:47 PM
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Some morning tweets from brahmresnik:
Quote:
Has Ice Edge fired their attorney and finance team yet? (Wait - Ice Edge is the finance team.) You got hosed.
Who's the fan favorite? JR, who's paying for team w your money (parking, pass-along costs) but could leave in 5 yrs...
...or Ice Edge, who will pay w some of your money, but won't leave?
Upon further review, Ice Edge gets $175M from city (debt, losses, tix charge) but over much longer period. Disagree?
Glendale taxpayers should want to know a) Glendale's financial assumptions built into these subsidies (more)
b) Glendale's financial assumptions back when it financed arena (more)
c) What this will cost the property owners/tenants in CFD. Does saving the team kill them?
Potential owners are getting subsidies of 165M-175M-or more from Glendale to buy this team. Is that why mayor won't vote?
The response will be, not a penny of your tax dollars will be spent. CFD=magic.
Did you notice JR signed his MOU on April Fool's Day? (Nice.)

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04-10-2010, 02:12 PM
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^ haha I like the April Fool's Day part


I noticed that too

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04-10-2010, 03:01 PM
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http://www.ottawasun.com/sports/hock...37921-qmi.html
Ottawa Sun/QMI on latest happenings in Phoenix WRT ownership

Quote:
“I think what you’re going to see is city council agree to both of them and send them on to the NHL,” said one NHL source which is closely monitoring the situation. “The MOUs have to be converted to a full-blown lease. If the city picks one over over the other, I think they lose some of their bargaining position. You know how it works. You let one horse leave the barn and it’s gone for good.”

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04-10-2010, 03:07 PM
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This is surreal. Will IEH and everyone else interested in keeping the team in Phoenix finally realize that it is simply not financially viable in the long term to have professional hockey in the desert? The entire economy of the Southwestern US has already collapsed, why keep something on life support that isn't sustainable?

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04-10-2010, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90rock View Post
This is surreal. Will IEH and everyone else interested in keeping the team in Phoenix finally realize that it is simply not financially viable in the long term to have professional hockey in the desert? The entire economy of the Southwestern US has already collapsed, why keep something on life support that isn't sustainable?
An investment in the south is not attempting to gain profit. It's like the Marshall Plan: you build a base, knowing you're going to sustain loses because hopefully in the future it can become profitable.

However, it is likely that if in 5 years things have not worked out in Glendale, JR would try to move out- and I imagine JR is preferred in NHL circles. At worst this is a 5-year loss that essentially buys you out into another market. I hope that is not true and I am completely wrong for Phoenix fans however, who've endured more than enough this year regarding their team.

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04-10-2010, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90rock View Post
This is surreal. Will IEH and everyone else interested in keeping the team in Phoenix finally realize that it is simply not financially viable in the long term to have professional hockey in the desert? The entire economy of the Southwestern US has already collapsed, why keep something on life support that isn't sustainable?
I don't think that is a fair assessment. Housing bubble and construction aside, the desert is doing as well as anywhere. I think there's 3 main reasons why the Coyote organization has been losing money.

1. Location of Jobing.com - Dumb, dumb, dumb idea to have it way out in Glendale. Should have been located in downtown, central phoenix, or the east valley somewhere.

2. Not a lot of marketing and advertisement - I think it's safe to say that the NHL in general gets screwed by ESPN. Maybe I'm cynical...but I think that these networks artificially create demand. And they pick and choose what they want to become popular. Advertise and promote enough crap 24/7 and you will create demand.

3. Lack of success as a team

Since I love hockey, and go to about 8 games a year, I would be devestated if the Yotes left. However, I can only see 1 of my 3 failure reasons being able to be changed...so I think there might be a chance they will be gone within 5 years.

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04-10-2010, 03:33 PM
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Just bringing this from the closed thread, that ps241, leer, and other have posted several times already. It may still pertain to discussion, and I feel this is one of the things that will be coming up next week in Glendale...


Quote:
Sure it's been posted before but ties dirrectly to CFD's.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/s...ports_business

Quote:
Bond district backers say they’ll nix their own bill if it becomes Coyotes’ mechanism

Wednesday, April 7, 2010


Backers of Arizona legislation that could be used by Glendale to help broker a lease and sale of the Phoenix Coyotes to Chicago Bulls owners Jerry Reinsdorf say they will nix that bill if it becomes a “Coyotes” measure.

A new version of Senate Bill 1083 has been put forward at the Legislature. It allows reserve funds to be created for community facilities districts. CFDs can created by cities, which can then use them to bond against for public infrastructure projects and spending.

Glendale and Reinsdorf want to create a CFD around the city-owned Jobing.com Arena and Westgate City Center to capture property tax revenue and bond against it. Those bond proceeds could then be used to help forge a new lease with Reinsdorf and help finance a purchase of the Coyotes.
...

.. and its a pretty serious thing to come up.

Because CFDs are an essential part of JR's MOU, and if that idea becomes rejected, then it really destroys the lease he wanted, to the best of my knowledge


IE seems like the better owners for the fans. But they have a very low chance of being the future owners, as JR seems to be more attractive to the BOG

I think IE are there for bargaining chips, or whatever so that COG doesn't have all their eggs in one basket. But they certainly have given JR the more favorable deal.



Does anyone know if IE can re-negotiate?

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04-10-2010, 03:34 PM
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When does the state vote on the CFD?

Assuming the city accepts one or both of these, the NHL can't accept either until the CFD is created. Without it, both offers go down the toilet.

My guess is that the CFD will not even see the light of day, and the State of Arizona is pegged as the reason the team is forced to move.

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04-10-2010, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaPhx View Post
I don't think that is a fair assessment. Housing bubble and construction aside, the desert is doing as well as anywhere. I think there's 3 main reasons why the Coyote organization has been losing money.

1. Location of Jobing.com - Dumb, dumb, dumb idea to have it way out in Glendale. Should have been located in downtown, central phoenix, or the east valley somewhere.

2. Not a lot of marketing and advertisement - I think it's safe to say that the NHL in general gets screwed by ESPN. Maybe I'm cynical...but I think that these networks artificially create demand. And they pick and choose what they want to become popular. Advertise and promote enough crap 24/7 and you will create demand.

3. Lack of success as a team

Since I love hockey, and go to about 8 games a year, I would be devestated if the Yotes left. However, I can only see 1 of my 3 failure reasons being able to be changed...so I think there might be a chance they will be gone within 5 years.
They were already downtown in an arena that was practically new when they came to Phoenix-- what is now known as US Airways Center. They moved out to Glendale because the sightlines were meant for the Suns, and the lease was unfavorable. (Not to mention the real estate bubble and immense urban sprawl turning the Valley of the Sun into one of the United States' fastest growing metropolitan areas.) Almost all of the Yotes' financial problems originate from this move, in addition to factors listed above. In my mind, a perfect storm is being assembled that means that their financial problems will make their relocation inevitable.

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04-10-2010, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaPhx View Post
Housing bubble and construction aside, the desert is doing as well as anywhere. I think there's 3 main reasons why the Coyote organization has been losing money. 1. Location of Jobing.com - Dumb, dumb, dumb idea to have it way out in Glendale. Should have been located in downtown, central phoenix, or the east valley somewhere. 2. Not a lot of marketing and advertisement - I think it's safe to say that the NHL in general gets screwed by ESPN. Maybe I'm cynical...but I think that these networks artificially create demand. And they pick and choose what they want to become popular. Advertise and promote enough crap 24/7 and you will create demand. 3. Lack of success as a team
In other words, Ownership & Management. If the team had been more successful or at the very least, moderately competitive instead of constant re-builds or the FOG factor, people wouldnt' have been so turned off as to stay away in droves?.
We cant change the past, the teams home is Glendale, and I dont buy the argument that it's too far away for convenience sake from the fan base in Scottsdale. If their truly "fans", they'll happily make the trip. Your suggestion of a lack of advertising & promotion combined with a really punk effort by local media to cover the team is bang-on, though I wouldnt go as far as including ESPN in that assessment. Good ratings = great ad-revs & dictates what they'll pay for content, the NHL numbers lower than fishing shows & pro bowling in a lot of markets. As for success on the ice, one only look at Tampa for a quick lesson in how quickly people can jump off of that Bandwagon, again, with lousy ownership & questionable on ice manouvers, contracts & the like. If the COG wants to keep the team, I say let them have it, let the NHL decide which of these 2 offers' is best for the league, live with the consequences. Its your team, your dime.


Last edited by Killion: 04-10-2010 at 04:41 PM. Reason: typo
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04-10-2010, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
In other words, Ownership & Management. If the team had been more successful or at the very least, moderately competitive instead of constant re-builds or the FOG factor, people wouldnt' have been so turned off as to stay away in droves?.
We cant change the past, the teams home is Glendale, and I dont buy the argument that it's too far away for convenience sake from the fan base in Scottsdale. If their truly "fans", they'll happily make the trip. Your suggestion of a lack of advertising & promotion combined with a really punk effort by local media to cover the team is bang-on, though I wouldnt go as far as including ESPN in that assessment. Good ratings = great ad-revs & dictates what they'll pay for content, the NHL numbers lower than fishing shows & pro bowling in a lot of markets. As for success on the ice, one only look at Tampa for a quick lesson in how quickly people can jump off of that Bandwagon, again, with lousy ownership & questionable on ice manouvers, contracts & the like. If the COG wants to keep the team, I say let them have it, let the NHL decide which of these 2 offers' is best for the league, live with the consequences. Its your team, your dime.
The arena location has been somewhat of a sore point on the Coyotes boards. In addition, I have seen numerous posts from folks from outside of AZ claiming that the arena is in the middle of nowhere, across the Mexican border or just south of the equator. Using yahoo maps, I did a little research and came up with the following distances from parts of the Phoenix area to Jobing.com arena:

US Airways Arena (downtown, former home of the Coyotes) 19 miles
Sky Harbor Airport 23 miles
Downtown Scottsdale 28 miles
Fountain Hills (about as far East as you get) 45 miles
Queen Creek (about as far Southwest as you get) 56 miles
Anthem (about as far North as you get) 33 miles

On weeknights rush hour traffic can make the drive from Scottsdale over an hour. i've lived in New York and Dallas, so driving 1-2 hours for a sporting event has never been an issue for me.

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04-10-2010, 05:02 PM
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Thank you LadyStanley for the summarization in your first posts. I learned more from 3 posts than I did from 300 in the previous threads.

Good on ya.

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04-10-2010, 05:20 PM
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Thanks' for the "time in motion" study Art!. I hear Jackie Childs' is looking over the MOU's & will have comments for the media Monday AM. As an Arizonian, I'd be interested to read your thoughts on both, what it tells' you about JR as a likely owner if this flys', whether or not you'd have a problem paying more, maybe even buy some Bonds?....

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04-10-2010, 05:39 PM
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So when does the state vote on the CFD related bill?

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04-10-2010, 06:18 PM
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IEH's Darryl Jones has a twitter account (apparently): http://twitter.com/IceEdgeDJ

Interesting exchange with Brahm Resnick this afternoon
Quote:
IceEdgeDJ: @brahmresnik Ice Edge is charging for parking and adding ticket surcharges which equal 9.5MM per year. This does not come from taxpayers
brahmresnik @IceEdgeDJ Does 'parking improvement' in MOU mean a new parking structure?
brahmresnik @IceEdgeDJ Is IE using similar debt financing?
brahmresnik @IceEdgeDJ Major question for taxpayers is who is ultimately on hook for bonds issued by a CFD. Property owners? Glendale?
IceEdgeDJ: @brahmresnik Good question for Glendale, since these are their documents.
IceEdgeDJ: @brahmresnik Per their MOU, Ice Edge will not be issuing bonds through CFD.


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04-10-2010, 09:49 PM
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If the backing revenues fall short, the bondholders are SOL - the city is not obligated to make up the difference.
Not obligated legally, but certainly obligated if they ever wish to float another bond issue at reasonable rates.

For practical purposes, these bonds are going to come with a taxpayer backstop, whether its explicitly stated so or not.

 
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04-11-2010, 12:04 AM
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Interesting discussion on HNIC Satellite Hotstove tonight during which the bids for the Coyotes are described as "embarrassing for the league." The panel also speculates that Glendale came to Reinsdorf, not the other way around and that both of these bids have owners upset given the fact that the actual purchase price of the Coyotes, if it happens, very much devalues franchise values for them. Doesn't mean that the deal won't happen, of course, but the discussion is a wake up call for some who want to view the deal with rose coloured glasses.

http://onlinesportsguys.blogspot.com/

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04-11-2010, 12:13 AM
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^ its amazing to me that nobody ever mentions the senate thing.....that is probably the biggest hurdle in the whole thing and it is never reported in stories about this deal.

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04-11-2010, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokes View Post
Interesting discussion on HNIC Satellite Hotstove tonight during which the bids for the Coyotes are described as "embarrassing for the league." The panel also speculates that Glendale came to Reinsdorf, not the other way around and that both of these bids have owners upset given the fact that the actual purchase price of the Coyotes, if it happens, very much devalues franchise values for them. Doesn't mean that the deal won't happen, of course, but the discussion is a wake up call for some who want to view the deal with rose coloured glasses.

http://onlinesportsguys.blogspot.com/
To be frank, those four guys do not have a clue between them.

The purchase price of the Coyotes is $168M. That is approximately in the ballpark of 3 X Revenues (probably a little more), which is what the NHL wants sale prices to be. REvenue multiples is the measurement used by sports franchises for sales prices, and that is right in the wheelhouse.

I have always assumed that Glendale went to JR. Is that a big surprise? That is what you do when you have a single bidder and you want to generate leverage for yourself.

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04-11-2010, 12:55 AM
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^ its amazing to me that nobody ever mentions the senate thing.....that is probably the biggest hurdle in the whole thing and it is never reported in stories about this deal.
A hurdle? Is it your position that they have not already done whatever lobbying they need to do? That is not how it is done. Businessmen do not put a deal together that requires political action and THEN say "well, let's start talking to the politicians."

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04-11-2010, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokes View Post
Interesting discussion on HNIC Satellite Hotstove tonight during which the bids for the Coyotes are described as "embarrassing for the league." The panel also speculates that Glendale came to Reinsdorf, not the other way around and that both of these bids have owners upset given the fact that the actual purchase price of the Coyotes, if it happens, very much devalues franchise values for them. Doesn't mean that the deal won't happen, of course, but the discussion is a wake up call for some who want to view the deal with rose coloured glasses.

http://onlinesportsguys.blogspot.com/
Sorry, didn't find it interesting in the least. Just more of the same, "the Sunbelt doesn't deserve hockey." Healy even said it 25 seconds into the discussion when LeBrun brought up the Glendale vote on Tuesday. Healy replies dismissively, "All the viewers really care. Move the Sunbelt north, that's when they'll really care."

This has nothing to do with concern about embarrassment for the league, or franchise values, or how sweet of a deal has been structured. It's that Phoenix might manage to keep its team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
A hurdle? Is it your position that they have not already done whatever lobbying they need to do? That is not how it is done. Businessmen do not put a deal together that requires political action and THEN say "well, let's start talking to the politicians."
It should also be noted that it was the "sponsors" threatening to pull the bill. Doesn't mean the end of the bill, just their sponsorship of it. I'd wager new sponsors are waiting in the wings, if needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
To be frank, those four guys do not have a clue between them.

The purchase price of the Coyotes is $168M. That is approximately in the ballpark of 3 X Revenues (probably a little more), which is what the NHL wants sale prices to be. REvenue multiples is the measurement used by sports franchises for sales prices, and that is right in the wheelhouse.

I have always assumed that Glendale went to JR. Is that a big surprise? That is what you do when you have a single bidder and you want to generate leverage for yourself.
Isn't that the formula JBs expert used in court to set the Phx value against Hamilton? I don't remember the "move em north" faithful questioning that valuation then.


Last edited by RR: 04-11-2010 at 01:22 AM.
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04-11-2010, 01:23 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
To be frank, those four guys do not have a clue between them. The purchase price of the Coyotes is $168M. That is approximately in the ballpark of 3 X Revenues (probably a little more), which is what the NHL wants sale prices to be. Revenue multiples is the measurement used by sports franchises for sales prices, and that is right in the wheelhouse. I have always assumed that Glendale went to JR. Is that a big surprise? That is what you do when you have a single bidder and you want to generate leverage for yourself.

Ah, no, this is an embarrassment for the league. From having to float the team money fall 08 while publicly denying doing so, through Moyes' surprise BK & Balsillies Power Play, the Phantom 6 Bidders & league policy disclosures, to these absolutely pathetic offers. Will a deal get done?. Likely. Has the NHL taken a hit both financially & in the Department of Integrity?. Absolutely. Your 3X's revenue model is not applicable to NHL Franchises with values having already dropped through the first floor headed to the basement, excluding the top tiers in Toronto, New York & Philadelphia et al.

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04-11-2010, 01:35 AM
  #25
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@RR; dont forget, this is the CBC were talking about here, so ya, they be pandering to the "lets bring the Sunbelters' north" crowd. Never the less, this is not a pretty picture for the league. As far as I'm concerned, it's probably a fait au compli with JR, and more power to you. Its your team, your dime, your decision. If after 5yrs the things simply unworkable & no one else is willing to step up to the plate locally & buy the asset, so be it. Its' not the end of the World. Phoenix deserves another chance, and if this is the price your willing to pay for it, go ahead. I had hoped for a cleaner offer from Reinsdorf.

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