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35+ LTIR question

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04-11-2010, 11:10 AM
  #1
Jackie Treehorn
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35+ LTIR question

This came up on the Sens board and I'm looking for people who know.

Alex Kovalev has a torn ACL that will require significant rehab. If he cannot go next year can his 35+ contract be offset with LTIR?

I know that the 35+ means the cap hit stays if he retires but what if he is actually injured?

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04-11-2010, 12:18 PM
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Jonjmc
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It counts no matter what happens. If a player that signed a contract after 35 gets hit by a bus and is killed, his cap hit still counts.

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04-11-2010, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonjmc View Post
It counts no matter what happens. If a player that signed a contract after 35 gets hit by a bus and is killed, his cap hit still counts.
I know his cap hit still counts, but can he be put on LTIR?

My understanding is that the LTIR allows a team to go over the cap by an injured players cap hit. In this case Kovalev has a $5 mil cap hit, so my question is can the Sens get LTIR relief for a 35+ contract?

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04-11-2010, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonjmc View Post
It counts no matter what happens. If a player that signed a contract after 35 gets hit by a bus and is killed, his cap hit still counts.
Somebody on the Sens board mentioned this happening with Alex Mogilny, and the Devils were allowed to put him on LTIR and get the cap relief.

Link http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/servle...BNStory/Sports

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04-11-2010, 12:43 PM
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Jonjmc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
Somebody on the Sens board mentioned this happening with Alex Mogilny, and the Devils were allowed to put him on LTIR and get the cap relief.

Link http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/servle...BNStory/Sports
First, I apologize for not understanding your original question. I just read through my copy of the CBA and it doesn't seem to exclude players signed under the 35+ rule from going on LTIR. I think all the evidence you need is the article that you posted. Lou asked the league and they said it was fine. Sorry if that isn't as definitive an answer as you seek, maybe Kdb or someone else here will stop by to clarify further.


Last edited by Jonjmc: 04-11-2010 at 12:50 PM.
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04-11-2010, 12:55 PM
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After searching these forums, it seems Kdb already chimed in on this regarding Mogilny.

Kdb209 said:

Mogilny counts against the cap under 50.5(d)(i)(B)(1) since he is now on the Injured Non Roster list (since he failed his initial camp physical). Note that in that case, the 35+ yo clause no longer even applies to Mogilny.

Malakhov counts against the cap under 50.5(d)(i)(B)(5) - the 35+ yo rule.

I beleive that the drafters of the CBA did intend to allow the LTI exception for 35+ yo players - the intent of the 35+ yo rule was not to screw over teams/players with legitimate injuries. Nowhere in the Bone Fide Long Term Injury Exeption clause 50.10(d) does it state that the clause does not apply to the 35+ yo players.


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Quote:
(d) Bona-Fide Long-TermInjury/Illness Exception to the Upper Limit. In
the event that a Player on a Club becomes unfit to play (i.e., is injured, ill or disabled and
unable to perform his duties as a hockey Player) such that the Club's physician believes,
in his or her opinion, that the Player, owing to either an injury or an illness, will be unfit
to play for at least (i) twenty-four (24) calendar days and (ii) ten (10) NHL Regular
Season games, and such Club desires to replace such Player, the Club may add an
additional Player or Players to its Active Roster, and the replacement Player Salary and
Bonuses of such additional Player(s) may increase the Club's Averaged Club Salary to an
amount up to and exceeding the Upper Limit, solely as, and to the extent and for the
duration, set forth below. If, however, the League wishes to challenge the determination
of a Club physician that a Player is unfit to play for purposes of the Bona-Fide Long-
Term Injury/Illness Exception, the League and the NHLPA shall promptly confer and
jointly select a neutral physician, who shall review the Club physician's determination
regarding the Player's fitness to play.
And again note that the salary of the injured player counts against the cap not because he is 35+ yo, but because he is on Injured Reserve or Injured Non Roster. As such, he should be eligible to have his salary replaced under 50.10(d), just like any other player.

The determination by the league had nothing to do with Mogilny being 35+, but was purely based on the "unfit to play" criteria of 50.10(d).

As soon as Mogilny reported to camp, he was going to end up on the active roster, injured reserve, or injured non roster. At that point the 35+ yo clause became a moot point - it no longer applied. The only question then for the league was did Mogilny qualify as Unfit to Play under 50.10(d) - and the league's neutral physician gave the second opinion that it did. Case Closed.

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04-11-2010, 01:00 PM
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kdb209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonjmc View Post
First, I apologize for not understanding your original question. I just read through my copy of the CBA and it doesn't seem to exclude players signed under the 35+ rule from going on LTIR. I think all the evidence you need is the article that you posted. Lou asked the league and they said it was fine. Sorry if that isn't as definitive an answer as you seek, maybe Kbd or someone else here will stop by to clarify further.
Correct - nothing prevents a team from using the Bona Fide Long Term Injury Exemption (LTIR) for players who signed multi year deals at age 35+.

The only caveat is that if the league thinks a team is trying to use LTIR to circumvent the 35+ yo rule, they can demand that the player get a second opinion from an independent third party physician.

The Mogilny example is on point - the Devils placed him on LTIR and an independent physician examined him and ruled that his chronic injury was hockey related and that he was unfit to play. New Jersey was then allowed to use LTIR to exceed the cap with replacement players up to AlMo's salary.

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04-11-2010, 01:13 PM
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Jackie Treehorn
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Thanks jonjmc and kdb, I appreciate you guys stopping by and giving some input. Jonjmc no need to apologize, I didn't exactly come across clearly either, lol.
Definitely alot clearer than it was this morning.

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