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How do Flyer fans feel about the shoot-out?

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Old
04-12-2010, 10:13 AM
  #26
FlyHigh
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Everybody in soccer hates the penalty shootout too, the problem is that by the end of 120 minutes, the players are simply too tired to keep going and it's only used as a last resort in the knockout rounds of major tournaments. Normally in soccer, a tie is perfectly acceptable, just like it should be in the NHL.

The basketball analogy is much closer.

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04-12-2010, 10:17 AM
  #27
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The issue of a shootout to placate fans post-lockout had merits. Fans do enjoy it as witnessed by the countless times we hear announcers saying "And now the fans are on their feet." It is a dynamic that is here to stay. I prefer a 10-minute OT period and would be interested in seeing if the number of shootouts is diminished fractionally or dramatically with an increased 4-on-4 in OT. Easier said than done, since it would involve parties from management and the P.A. to agree on such an extension of five additional minutes. That said, a PO position determined as such, was gut-wretching with both teams knowing what was on the line; however, the drama of that is suffocated by the excessive shootouts during the season. I just hope the powers that be don't see the excitement yesterday and think....hmmm, how about this in the playoffs?

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04-12-2010, 10:28 AM
  #28
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Oh yeah, I mean, the shootout screws real hockey fans, but your casual sports fan is going to love it and ultimately those are the fans the NHL is concerned about.

The real hockey fan will rant and rage about the NHL, but never actually leave, look how quickly we came back after the lockout which was essentially 18 months of the league and the players giving fans a giant middle finger.

But the casual fan is less reliable and that's the fan the NHL wants to attract and from that perspective, the shootout makes a ton of sense.

I wouldn't mind seeing them revamping the points system to decrease the impact of the SO and OTLs in general, it's ridiculous to me that Boston gets a few more points than we do because they're better at losing in OT than losing in the actual game.

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04-12-2010, 10:58 AM
  #29
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I hate the shootout and feel it is a disgrace an important game was decided in that matter. Then again it wouldn't have done the game justice to end it in a tie either.

I also agree with FlyHigh that the points system needs to be revamped. I hate the loser point.

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04-12-2010, 11:24 AM
  #30
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No game should come down to a shoot out, extend the OT to 7-10 minutes and not have a shoot out during the regular season. A tie as boring as it is a tie and should not be decided by a skills competition.

I hate the point system also.
3 Point system
3 points for a regulation win and 2 for a overtime win and 1 for a OT loss.

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04-12-2010, 11:25 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonces View Post
Pretty much.

Even though it worked out in the Flyers favor for once, I hate seeing any game, especially one so important being decided by a glorified skills competition. Hockey which should be (and usually is) the ultimate team game, has been bastardized by gimicks like this one IMO.

Wish they would have tried 10 minute overtime first, but I imagine that would have been pretty hard for the PA to go along with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by philly_28 View Post
I hate the shoot-out. It's BS to decide a game that lasted 65 mins by a skills competition that contradicts the team aspect of hockey.

Problem is, I hate ties too. Can't stand it when I watch a game for 2+ hours and afterwards I don't know how to feel.
Torts yesterday proved its more than a skills competition, getting out-coached in the shootout. Jokinen?!

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04-12-2010, 11:36 AM
  #32
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Being from England I've been brought up on football (soccer) games that ended in draws and that being acceptable. A game doesn't have to have a winner to be exciting.

I don't think I agree with longer overtimes because of the number of games and the physical grind of the season as it is, adding more time onto the games hurts the game more than helps it in my opinion.

The shootout isn't really very exciting usually, I find it an anti-climactic way to finish a regular season game but I have to admit yesterday was extremely tense and exciting for me - because there was more than a solitary point on the line, there was everything. Continuous OT is brilliant but not feasible during the regular season. I'd just have kept ties, there's nothing wrong with them really.

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04-12-2010, 11:43 AM
  #33
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I have no particular problem with shootouts per se, but if they're going to have 'em they have to institute 3 pts for wins in regulation if I am going to deem the entire setup fair.

So:

3 pts win in regulation
2 pts win in OT/SO
1 pt loss in OT/SO

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04-12-2010, 11:43 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Oh yeah, I mean, the shootout screws real hockey fans, but your casual sports fan is going to love it and ultimately those are the fans the NHL is concerned about.

The real hockey fan will rant and rage about the NHL, but never actually leave, look how quickly we came back after the lockout which was essentially 18 months of the league and the players giving fans a giant middle finger.

But the casual fan is less reliable and that's the fan the NHL wants to attract and from that perspective, the shootout makes a ton of sense.

I wouldn't mind seeing them revamping the points system to decrease the impact of the SO and OTLs in general, it's ridiculous to me that Boston gets a few more points than we do because they're better at losing in OT than losing in the actual game.
I agree with a lot of what your saying. And I agree, I don't like the shootout. Hockey has always been the ultimate team sport and sometimes the outcome is ironically determined by individual skills. But in the words of Holmgren.... "what can you do?" In a perfect world, regular season games would be decided the same way they are in the playoffs. The unfortunate part is it's not going to happen any time soon. And pretty much everything the NHL does is meant to cater to the casual fan but I think in this case, they are catering to the networks that broadcast NHL games more.

Networks don't like broadcasting hockey games, they would rather broadcast poker tournaments. The shootout was a solution to that problem. If they were to implement extended overtime and eliminate the shootout, we would probably have to deal with the networks cutting off the game. Not to mention hope your team doesn't have a game scheduled for the next day that they will have to struggle to stay awake through.

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04-12-2010, 11:47 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I have no particular problem with shootouts per se, but if they're going to have 'em they have to institute 3 pts for wins in regulation if I am going to deem the entire setup fair.

So:

3 pts win in regulation
2 pts win in OT/SO
1 pt loss in OT/SO
Yup. This is how I feel as well.

I also feel that an OT win should still count for 3pts, but a shootout for 2.


Then again this makes team records look ridiculous.

Something like; 21-12-24-7

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04-12-2010, 11:52 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
Yup. This is how I feel as well.

I also feel that an OT win should still count for 3pts, but a shootout for 2.


Then again this makes team records look ridiculous.

Something like; 21-12-24-7
Well, given that they determine stuff by points... I think they should worry less about the columns. I also feel like it's a travesty to have SO wins as part of the tie-breaker formula.

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04-12-2010, 11:54 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, given that they determine stuff by points... I think they should worry less about the columns. I also feel like it's a travesty to have SO wins as part of the tie-breaker formula.
Next year they're changing the tie-breaker, so it's at least a better solution.

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04-12-2010, 12:00 PM
  #38
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Not a fan of the shootout. Team sports shouldn't be decided by a skills competition.

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04-12-2010, 12:03 PM
  #39
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I HATE the shootout. Yes a tie isn't the best result in the world. But to have the season come down to what essentially is a lot of luck, is ridiculous. The team that wins the shootout is not the better team because they won in the shootout. It wouldn't be as bad if the loser didn't get a point. They should either mae games worth 2 points for a win and 1 for a tie, or 2 points for a SO win and no points for a SO loss. Rewarding a team for losing is far worse than rewarding two teams for tieing.

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04-12-2010, 12:06 PM
  #40
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I don't mind the shoot out that much, but I don't mind ties either. When two teams play each other to a draw after over time, why do we need to decide a winner when the teams themselves couldn't? The shoot out is this arbitrary device to give us a decision that doesn't really reflect what happened on the ice. Imagine the NFL ending their over times by trotting out the kickers and having them go kick-for-kick from further and further out.

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04-12-2010, 12:07 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I HATE the shootout. Yes a tie isn't the best result in the world. But to have the season come down to what essentially is a lot of luck, is ridiculous. The team that wins the shootout is not the better team because they won in the shootout. It wouldn't be as bad if the loser didn't get a point. They should either mae games worth 2 points for a win and 1 for a tie, or 2 points for a SO win and no points for a SO loss. Rewarding a team for losing is far worse than rewarding two teams for tieing.
This is why you make a regulation win 3 pts. You split 2 pts for the tie in regulation, and then they play for the extra point in OT.

I have yet to see a compelling argument against this. The NHL supposedly doesn't like it because it could stretch out the standings...which sucks for the teams being left behind (and their paying fans), but it at least rewards the teams that are earning it on merit.

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04-12-2010, 12:10 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, given that they determine stuff by points... I think they should worry less about the columns. I also feel like it's a travesty to have SO wins as part of the tie-breaker formula.
No, I agree completely. Columns are only superficial and how the point system is determined is something much more crucial. I was just saying it would look and sound ridiculous, especially when discussing hockey with other people.

I think OT wins are much more team/skill determined then a SO.
I do not think winning in OT should be equivalent to winning in a SO. You might argue (not saying that you take that POV) that winning in regulation should not be equivalent to OT, but I think that argument is much harder to make.

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04-12-2010, 12:11 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fire bettman View Post
I agree with a lot of what your saying. And I agree, I don't like the shootout. Hockey has always been the ultimate team sport and sometimes the outcome is ironically determined by individual skills. But in the words of Holmgren.... "what can you do?" In a perfect world, regular season games would be decided the same way they are in the playoffs. The unfortunate part is it's not going to happen any time soon. And pretty much everything the NHL does is meant to cater to the casual fan but I think in this case, they are catering to the networks that broadcast NHL games more.

Networks don't like broadcasting hockey games, they would rather broadcast poker tournaments. The shootout was a solution to that problem. If they were to implement extended overtime and eliminate the shootout, we would probably have to deal with the networks cutting off the game. Not to mention hope your team doesn't have a game scheduled for the next day that they will have to struggle to stay awake through.
Yeah, I'm sure the networks like it and hell, they should, it adds excitement and drama.

The problem obviously it's like ending NBA games in a HORSE contest. So minimizing its impact would be a good idea.

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04-12-2010, 12:13 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
No, I agree completely. Columns are only superficial and how the point system is determined is something much more crucial. I was just saying it would look and sound ridiculous, especially when discussing hockey with other people.

I think OT wins are much more team/skill determined then a SO.
I do not think winning in OT should be equivalent to winning in a SO. You might argue (not saying that you take that POV) that winning in regulation should not be equivalent to OT, but I think that argument is much harder to make.
My biggest issue is the point for the OT loss. The shootout blows and I don't blame the NHL for handing out a point to the losing team, but an OTL is still a loss.

You shouldn't get rewarded for losing, who the hell cares when you do it, you still lost.

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04-12-2010, 12:15 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
My biggest issue is the point for the OT loss. The shootout blows and I don't blame the NHL for handing out a point to the losing team, but an OTL is still a loss.

You shouldn't get rewarded for losing, who the hell cares when you do it, you still lost.
The problem they were addressing was; no team wanted to take the risk and lose the point. Maybe if they change wins to 3 pts it would entice teams to go for the win instead of play for the tie.

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04-12-2010, 12:16 PM
  #46
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Good to get the win of course,

but shoot outs suck. Always have. Always will. Its a team sport. It should be decided as a team sport.

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04-12-2010, 12:17 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
My biggest issue is the point for the OT loss. The shootout blows and I don't blame the NHL for handing out a point to the losing team, but an OTL is still a loss.

You shouldn't get rewarded for losing, who the hell cares when you do it, you still lost.
OT was terrible to watch before they gave teams the protection of the point. I would much prefer doing away with OT and just ending games in regulation ties, personally.

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04-12-2010, 12:17 PM
  #48
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what could they do though? you can't all of a sudden change a rule because it's the last game of the regular season. it is what it is and i hate shoot outs as much as most of you but thats the box the nhl was put in and i sure as hell don't want to see tie's come back. and sudden death OT is unreasonable for the regular season.

that being said, yesterday i'm sure was the NHLs worst nightmare when they brought in shoot outs.

and also the rangers were the ones trying to FORCE the shootout yesterday so i really don't want to hear them whinning about it either.


Last edited by MsConduct11: 04-12-2010 at 12:42 PM.
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Old
04-12-2010, 12:28 PM
  #49
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What some people don't realize is that if you raise the value of wins comparatively, however you accomplish this, we're in 6th place.

In only the current format do we finish in 7th.

The Flyers are the better team this year. They deserved to be there. It sucks that it was decided in a shootout, but it would have been a much bigger display of the failure that is this current point system had the Rangers won.

Puck Daddy even has a write-up complaining about how we knocked out the Rangers.

It's kind of annoying.

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04-12-2010, 12:34 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
OT was terrible to watch before they gave teams the protection of the point. I would much prefer doing away with OT and just ending games in regulation ties, personally.
I'd make an OT win worth 3 points as well to be honest.

Regulation win 3 points, OT win 3 points, SO win 2 pts, SO loss 1 point.

I think the 2 point gap between an OT win and an SO loss would be enough to push teams to try to win in OT.

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