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National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

For the first time in 10 years....

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Old
05-06-2004, 07:35 AM
  #1
Grandpabuzz
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For the first time in 10 years....

A team rather than the elite 4 of Detroit, Colorado, Dallas, or New Jersey will win the Stanley Cup. Is this a change in the era? Are teams such as Detroit, Toronto, Dallas, and Colorado going to dismantle their older guys and start rebuilding? Are teams such as Tampa and San Jose going to be the new Detroit and Jersies? Especially with a lockout very likely next season it seems things for the NHL are chaning very quickly and before you know it Pittsburgh will be holding the cup again.

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05-06-2004, 11:07 AM
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MotownMadman
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I don't know if there will be a huge turnover or not. I think that Detroit and Toronto will need more reworking than Jersey or Colorado. Both of the latter teams seem to have more young talent that they are bringing up (though Colorado will definitely look different in the next season).

Another question I have is whether this more signals a change in which style of play will be more dominant. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all 4 teams remaining play more of a dump and chase game than puck possession. Is puck possession and a style which demands a lot of passing untenable in today's environment with bigger, quicker players who are better positionally and teams that rely heavily on the trap. Last years SCF was between two heavily trapping teams. Perhaps the change in play has led to a change in which teams are more successful rather than say age (sort of a natural selection hypothesis).

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05-06-2004, 11:15 AM
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10 years? Detroit and NJ made the SCF's in 1995, the Rangers and Canucks made it 1994.

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05-06-2004, 11:30 AM
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Dallas won one cup, I don't think that makes them elite.

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05-06-2004, 11:31 AM
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Has there ever been a time when there was no Canadian starters among the goalies for the final four teams?

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05-06-2004, 11:57 AM
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I like what Calgary is doing right now.

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Old
05-06-2004, 12:23 PM
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Dallas had two finals appearances, including their Cup win, as well as at least one more conference final that I believe went to 7 games the year Colorado won the Cup. That's not a bad run, but in a second tier when you compare the real big 3 of Colorado, Detroit, and New Jersey.

The times are a changing, and I think that the old guard has changed, but they'll hold on as long as possible and slowly fade down the standings individually. The young teams have been loading up while the old guard won the Cups. Exciting time to be a fan from that regard.

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05-06-2004, 01:44 PM
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I don't really understand how you can say that Jersey is going to "fade away". WIth guys like Parise, Suglobov, Martin and Hale (not to mention a bunch of others), you can't say that Lameriello hasn't prepared this team well for the future. Ahonen seems to be a promising future goaltender. Elias is in his prime, and Gomez finally seems to have come around (he's still pretty young). Niedermayer and Brodeur will be there well into their 30's.

Stevens might be back for another couple of seasons. But even if he doesn't, the team is slowly adjusting to His Majesty's departure.

Jersey is best positioned of the "elite 3" (or 4). And will remain elite for some time to come.

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Old
05-06-2004, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness
10 years? Detroit and NJ made the SCF's in 1995, the Rangers and Canucks made it 1994.



Since 1995 the Devils are the only Eastern Conference team to win the SC. This is why I am hopeing to see either the Sharks or the Flames win the SC this year. Tampa Bay has a good chance as well but I think it will come from the Western Conference and the Devils will still be the only ones to win the SC in the last decade...

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Old
05-06-2004, 02:02 PM
  #10
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Devils is actually only Eastern team that has made it to the finals more than once since 1992. Pens, Habs, Rangers, Panthers, Flyers, Caps, Sabres, Canes have made it once. Will Flyers be it second time or Bolts for first. I hope the latter, but I hope Western team to win the Cup.

Between 1995 and 2002 only three Western teams made it to finals. Anaheim broke that last year and before that there were lots of teams: Canucks, Kings, Hawks, Stars (played in Minnesota back then). Oh and before that there was Alberta dynasty.

Another interesting thing is that since 1989, every time has been different final. Between 1983 and 1990 there was only 4 different, Edm/NYI, Edm/Phi, Edm/Bos, Cgy/Mtl.

Devils has been in the final three times, meeting there three big teams (Det, Col, Dal) and one surprising team (Ana)

Actually, when I saw this topic I thought this was going to be something about long time between the Cups.

Philly won in 1975, Calgary in 1989, Tampa Bay and San Jose have never won the Cup.

In 1994 situation was: NYR 1940, Tor 1967, NJ and Van never
Actually 1995 had the same: Det 1955, Chi 1961, Phi 1975, NJ never.

1996 Pens were in CF if I remember right, since then Colorado or Detroit has been there at least, except 2003 but then there was Devils.

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Old
05-06-2004, 03:14 PM
  #11
ObeySteve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyacheslav
Dallas won one cup, I don't think that makes them elite.
They've still been a legit contender year after year, and won more than one Presidents trophy in the process.

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Old
05-06-2004, 04:03 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCoyotes
Dallas had two finals appearances, including their Cup win, as well as at least one more conference final that I believe went to 7 games the year Colorado won the Cup. That's not a bad run, but in a second tier when you compare the real big 3 of Colorado, Detroit, and New Jersey.

The times are a changing, and I think that the old guard has changed, but they'll hold on as long as possible and slowly fade down the standings individually. The young teams have been loading up while the old guard won the Cups. Exciting time to be a fan from that regard.
I disagree. We'll see a lot of new faces in the playoffs, but I doubt the Old Guard will just fade away quietly. Detriot will always be a contender - can you really see them missing the playoffs? They're core is getting older and will need serious reworking, but they have the pieces. Colorodo is the same way, but somewhat younger. Colorodo will continue to make the playoffs and contend, and though I can't see them winning the cup, a playoff berth every year makes them dangerous. NJ (I'm a homer, perhaps, but still) is the one of the three that I would expect to continue to contend. If you look at their prospect rankings and the massive amounts of talent and depth we have at forward, as well as the young defensive core (with the exception of Scotty Stevens), and the goaltending of Martin Brodeur, NJ is going to be around for a while. Remember, the three NJ championship teams have been almost completely remade each time - the core forwards have been drastically different, and even between 1995-2000 the defense core from 3-6 was completely remade. The NJD will continue to be a presence in this league.

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Old
05-06-2004, 05:25 PM
  #13
Vyacheslav
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObeySteve
They've still been a legit contender year after year, and won more than one Presidents trophy in the process.
Yep, a pretty good regular team in the regular season. I just don't think there is a top four teams in the past 10 years, there's a top 3 and one team outside of that group won a cup.

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05-06-2004, 07:05 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpabuzz
A team rather than the elite 4 of Detroit, Colorado, Dallas, or New Jersey will win the Stanley Cup.
I think a better statement would be, "this year's winner will be only the second team since 1995 who isn't New Jersey, Detroit or Colorado".

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Old
05-06-2004, 07:55 PM
  #15
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Yeah that's what I was trying to say.

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Old
05-06-2004, 08:34 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HNIC
I think a better statement would be, "this year's winner will be only the second team since 1995 who isn't New Jersey, Detroit or Colorado".
You act as if Dallas's win was a fluke or something that didn't follow a pattern of a certain group of teams winning.

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Old
05-06-2004, 09:41 PM
  #17
Vyacheslav
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObeySteve
You act as if Dallas's win was a fluke or something that didn't follow a pattern of a certain group of teams winning.
Overall that's exactly right, though.

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Old
05-06-2004, 10:18 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flame_Star_Devil
I disagree. We'll see a lot of new faces in the playoffs, but I doubt the Old Guard will just fade away quietly. Detriot will always be a contender - can you really see them missing the playoffs? They're core is getting older and will need serious reworking, but they have the pieces. Colorodo is the same way, but somewhat younger. Colorodo will continue to make the playoffs and contend, and though I can't see them winning the cup, a playoff berth every year makes them dangerous. NJ (I'm a homer, perhaps, but still) is the one of the three that I would expect to continue to contend. If you look at their prospect rankings and the massive amounts of talent and depth we have at forward, as well as the young defensive core (with the exception of Scotty Stevens), and the goaltending of Martin Brodeur, NJ is going to be around for a while. Remember, the three NJ championship teams have been almost completely remade each time - the core forwards have been drastically different, and even between 1995-2000 the defense core from 3-6 was completely remade. The NJD will continue to be a presence in this league.
My point was that the big 3 of the past wouldn't be as strong as they once were, not that they would slide of out playoff contention. My definition of a contender is a favorite to win the Stanley Cup, I think that all of the Big 3 could compete for a Cup but will be competing with new powers ala the Ottawa's, Tampa Bay's, San Jose's etc.

I don't think it can be discounted what effect the CBA and it's resolution will have on the league as a whole. There are going to be some changes this offseason, one way or another, and you could see a shift or even a balance take effect.

I myself am a fan of the Devs and Avs, so I would not cut them short intentionally.

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Old
05-07-2004, 07:05 PM
  #19
Vanucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObeySteve
You act as if Dallas's win was a fluke or something that didn't follow a pattern of a certain group of teams winning.
I didn't mean it like that, I just meant that I wouldn't really consider Dallas to be part of the "Big 4" from the last ten years. I think that there's a "Big 3", and Dallas would be the next team.

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