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People who would rather trade assets for draft picks.

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Old
04-12-2010, 04:14 PM
  #1
Kesselisboss
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People who would rather trade assets for draft picks.

Id rather find a way to get a decent first or late first, 2nd rounders and such than trade for a player as we could clear cap space and get some new young guys. (ps. Jared Knight in the third round?...) I think so). I still would like to get kovie as we have seen its managable to make a great team with good picks and big contracts as even LA has about 10 million in capspace without a big name player and have some great young players....

Vote:

We would rather have Picks

We would rather have Players.

???

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Old
04-12-2010, 04:28 PM
  #2
Woodman19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesselisboss View Post
Id rather find a way to get a decent first or late first, 2nd rounders and such than trade for a player as we could clear cap space and get some new young guys. (ps. Jared Knight in the third round?...) I think so). I still would like to get kovie as we have seen its managable to make a great team with good picks and big contracts as even LA has about 10 million in capspace without a big name player and have some great young players....

Vote:

We would rather have Picks

We would rather have Players.

???
Well obviously all things considered you would want the safe choice of the player, but there is always a margin in which picks are better.

Is Wayne Primeau worth a 1st overall pick because hes a proven commodity vs the risk? of course not. the Cieling on a pick that high is tremendous and negates the proven value of the asset.

The other factor that has to be accouted, is the quantity of assets involved. the Phil Kessel trade is a great example of this. Is Phil Kessel worth a 2nd Overall Pick? that would be a 50/50 yes or no, is he worth a 2nd Overall Pick + 32nd Overall + another 1st in 2011? not a chance!

So to answer your original question, it depends on the picks vs player comparison you want to give to be ablwe to judge it properly.

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04-12-2010, 05:14 PM
  #3
Stephen
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When it comes to situations like trading Ponikarovsky for a 2nd or Luca Caputi for example, I would prefer draft picks over drafted players. Simply for the fact that you can determine what player to target as opposed to what an organization deems to be expendable. It gives you the option to shore up your goaltending, go after a defenseman or a boom bust forward which you determine yourself.

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Old
04-12-2010, 05:16 PM
  #4
Shanty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
When it comes to situations like trading Ponikarovsky for a 2nd or Luca Caputi for example, I would prefer draft picks over drafted players. Simply for the fact that you can determine what player to target as opposed to what an organization deems to be expendable. It gives you the option to shore up your goaltending, go after a defenseman or a boom bust forward which you determine yourself.
My thoughts EXACTLY.

This thread is obviously just a veiled attempt to get another Kessel fight started btw...

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Old
04-12-2010, 05:24 PM
  #5
Tim Vezina Thomas
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I feel like you guys already got a first/second round equivalent in Bozak, and a solid young asset in Luca Caputi. Personally, from all my watching and wishing you guys to lose, I have gotten pretty familiar with these guys, and with Kadri coming in next year I think you guys don't need draft picks as much as you think.

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Old
04-12-2010, 05:40 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
When it comes to situations like trading Ponikarovsky for a 2nd or Luca Caputi for example, I would prefer draft picks over drafted players. Simply for the fact that you can determine what player to target as opposed to what an organization deems to be expendable. It gives you the option to shore up your goaltending, go after a defenseman or a boom bust forward which you determine yourself.
You can scout a drafted player just as much as one yet to be picked. The process of finding the right fit for a trade for a prospect involves scouting other teams' prospect bases for things you want or need. I doubt Burke took Shero's word on Caputi. Chances are someone on the Leafs organisation had a look at the kid prior to making the deal.

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Old
04-12-2010, 05:47 PM
  #7
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I think this is a no brainer... Well for me anyways.

I would much rather get a hold of a 1st or 2nd round pick than a peaked vet like Kaberle and Poni (Leafs players examples). Now of course there will be some exceptions such as the Kessel trade. We could have easily busted on one of the two picks we lost during this trade and I think it's safe to say that Kessel is top 5-10 pick deserving.

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Old
04-12-2010, 05:49 PM
  #8
Raym11
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we need a mid/high 2nd round pick to draft beukeboom

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Old
04-12-2010, 05:52 PM
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WestIslander
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Habs fan here (I come in peace).

Personally, I feel that by picking up Bozak, Hanson and Gustavsson for nothing, you guy's were able to pickup 3 possible 1st round draft picks for nothing.

This bring me to the Kessel deal, as much as I think he is a good player, I feel that Toronto may have overpaid by one too many 1st round draft picks and he could of probably been picked up for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round draft pick this season as opposed to another 1st round draft pick next season.

With the likes of Kessel, Kadri, Bozak, Stalberg, Hanson, Phaneuf, Komisarek, Schenn, Gustavsson and others, your team is going to be GOOD and CONTENDING in no time!

Players like Kaberle, Beauchemin, Giguere and others can all land you mid to late first round picks so I think Burke is going to pull something off in L.A. come June!

Good luck and all the best next season...

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Old
04-12-2010, 05:55 PM
  #10
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Quote:
I feel that Toronto may have overpaid by one too many 1st round draft picks and he could of probably been picked up for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round draft pick this season as opposed to another 1st round draft pick next season.
Chiarelli? Is that you?

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Old
04-12-2010, 06:15 PM
  #11
Kesselisboss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Habs fan here (I come in peace).

Personally, I feel that by picking up Bozak, Hanson and Gustavsson for nothing, you guy's were able to pickup 3 possible 1st round draft picks for nothing.

This bring me to the Kessel deal, as much as I think he is a good player, I feel that Toronto may have overpaid by one too many 1st round draft picks and he could of probably been picked up for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round draft pick this season as opposed to another 1st round draft pick next season.

With the likes of Kessel, Kadri, Bozak, Stalberg, Hanson, Phaneuf, Komisarek, Schenn, Gustavsson and others, your team is going to be GOOD and CONTENDING in no time!

Players like Kaberle, Beauchemin, Giguere and others can all land you mid to late first round picks so I think Burke is going to pull something off in L.A. come June!

Good luck and all the best next season...
Tha5 was nice of you...almost too nice....are you being sarcastic? and btw beachemin would be lucky to grab a 3rd lol

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Old
04-12-2010, 06:18 PM
  #12
nuck
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They are the same. We can assume the Leafs scouted Caputi just like any other available player. Value is value. They got to choose Kenny Ryan but there is no guarantee he will ever have even the limited success that Caput has. Assets have already established a bit of worth, as opposed to pure potential.

Of course the further developed the asset is, the more likely you know the top side as well, so they aren't as much of a lottery ticket as the pick. A draft choice is only great if you draft a great prospect. Jerry D'Amigo the asset seems to be worth a lot more than the 158th pick. Paradis, less than the 27th overall.

Its true sometimes you are only dealing for what the other club is willing to part with, but it also applies that the other club has to offer you a currency you are interested in, and that could mean getting someone they didn't want to part with. Also, the deeper the seller is at that position, the better chance you can have of getting an outstanding return. In the end it is all about finding a trading partner with few other option. I would sooner have a 2nd round pick myself than Caputi, but I would sooner have Caputi than Ryan or Blacker.

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Old
04-12-2010, 06:30 PM
  #13
The Messenger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
When it comes to situations like trading Ponikarovsky for a 2nd or Luca Caputi for example, I would prefer draft picks over drafted players. Simply for the fact that you can determine what player to target as opposed to what an organization deems to be expendable. It gives you the option to shore up your goaltending, go after a defenseman or a boom bust forward which you determine yourself.
Have to take the other side of that one. The Leafs targeted Caputi and got him. An unknown 2nd round pick does not guarantee you the player you are targeting or a postion you need shoring up on. Heck if that were the case we would have Brayden Schenn as a propect right now. Best example of a trade for a drafted player over a pick would be Niewy for Iginla.

I will try and find the article but the Leafs wanted Caputi. Pittsburgh wanted to give a pick and the Leafs said they were going elsewhere, they had a better deal. Pittsburgh then threw in Caputi.

ps.I agree with Shanty though, this is another thread that will morph into the kessel trade just one more time.


Last edited by The Messenger: 04-12-2010 at 06:55 PM.
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Old
04-12-2010, 06:33 PM
  #14
Kesselisboss
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Say hypothetically we can get a 10th overall pick and a 27th overall. We draft someone with the 10thn but do you take the chance on Kabanov with the 27th? Personally i think Anaheim or Boston will end up getting him as they have there 2 firsts...also Pheonix. And washington would surely take a chance on him? Id love to get Granland or Burmistrov but the idea of that happening is almost impossible. Though, it is NY there Gm is pretty stupid. Theres a couple good guys you could get.

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Old
04-12-2010, 06:43 PM
  #15
jablueblue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Courage View Post
You can scout a drafted player just as much as one yet to be picked. The process of finding the right fit for a trade for a prospect involves scouting other teams' prospect bases for things you want or need. I doubt Burke took Shero's word on Caputi. Chances are someone on the Leafs organisation had a look at the kid prior to making the deal.
Exactly, Burke did target who he wanted and he got a player further into his developement. Burke could most likely have gotten at least a second rounder, as was reported but he obviously felt that Caputi was a safer bet with potentially a higher ceiling than your average second rounder.

Saying you can target the player of your choice with a draft pick doesn't exactly fit as it's not like Burke closed his eyes and pointed at a prospect off the Pens list

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Old
04-12-2010, 06:47 PM
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GordieHoweHatTrick
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In terms of what (I think) we should be looking for if we're to trade Kaberle or anyone else with value, Toronto needs proven NHL talent. I'd much rather acquire a proven top-6 player (or two) than a 1st round pick + prospect.

At this stage of the game I'd rather have players..

I think our prospect pool is fine the way it is. Guys like Bozak, Stalberg, Hanson, & Gustavsson may not be 18 or 19 but the point is that they're not done developing. I will be expecting much of the same and more from them next year. I just don't necessarily think they're ready to be playing top-line minutes, which is why players like Sharp, Richards, Horton etc are so intriguing to me right now. We don't own our 1st rounder next year so we should be striving to add veteran talent up front, not relying on inconsistent rookies/sophomores to lead the team..

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Old
04-12-2010, 06:57 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Raym11 View Post
we need a mid/high 2nd round pick to draft beukeboom
Someone agrees with me! I live in Sault Ste. Marie so I see this guy play a lot and man will he be good in the show.

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04-12-2010, 07:02 PM
  #18
Shanty
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
In terms of what (I think) we should be looking for if we're to trade Kaberle or anyone else with value, Toronto needs proven NHL talent. I'd much rather acquire a proven top-6 player (or two) than a 1st round pick + prospect.

At this stage of the game I'd rather have players..

I think our prospect pool is fine the way it is. Guys like Bozak, Stalberg, Hanson, & Gustavsson may not be 18 or 19 but the point is that they're not done developing. I will be expecting much of the same and more from them next year. I just don't necessarily think they're ready to be playing top-line minutes, which is why players like Sharp, Richards, Horton etc are so intriguing to me right now. We don't own our 1st rounder next year so we should be striving to add veteran talent up front, not relying on inconsistent rookies/sophomores to lead the team..
JFJ?...

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04-12-2010, 07:02 PM
  #19
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I already posted this but what do you guys think of this..

Kaberle for a mid-late 1st round pick+1 or 2 players. Use the mid 1st round pick to get Jeff Skinner, or someone else who really slipped in the draft i guess

Since washington is interested, i hope a Eric Fehr+Alzer+1st deal does materialize. I'd rather want Fleischmenn instead of Fehr, but if we get Fleischmenn i don't think we'll get that 1st round pick. Besides, Eric Fehr bleeds "burke type player"

Trade Grabo for a 2nd round pick+low end prospect if we're lucky. Use the pick to get Jared Knight.

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Old
04-12-2010, 07:04 PM
  #20
Stephen
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Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
Have to take the other side of that one. The Leafs targeted Caputi and got him. An unknown 2nd round pick does not guarantee you the player you are targeting or a postion you need shoring up on. Heck if that were the case we would have Brayden Schenn as a propect right now. Best example of a trade for a drafted player over a pick would be Niewy for Iginla.

I will try and find the article but the Leafs wanted Caputi. Pittsburgh wanted to give a pick and the Leafs said they were going elsewhere, they had a better deal. Pittsburgh then threw in Caputi.
I thought the Leafs wanted Tangradi and the best they could do was compromise on Caputi after the Leafs rejected the 2nd?

If you look at the Phillippe Paradis trade, which better illustrates my side, I think I'd much much rather have the late first than Carolina's selection. For whatever reason, Carolina deemed Paradis expendable to get Tlusty. You could make the argument that if Toronto had received a late first, they might find themselves in a situation where they could jump on a Carter Ashton or a Charles-Olivier Roussel that would have given them something more valuable than a potential third liner, and somebody you definitely couldn't get for Tlusty.

And my point is basically with a trade with veteran for a draft pick, the veteran you move isn't worth a good prospect drafted in the second round. With the pick you take the risk that you might get a bust, but it gives you the possibility to hit a home run like a Weber, Kulemin, Mason, Bergeron, Vlasic, whatever. With Caputi you're not going to get the same boom potential, and with an organization like ours, we need some more boom potential.

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Old
04-12-2010, 07:07 PM
  #21
disgruntleddave
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A boat's a boat, but the mystery box could be anything. IT COULD EVEN BE A BOAT!

Lesson: If the value of the boat (aka, the player) is likely to be higher to you in the long run than the expected value of the mystery box (aka, the draft pick), then you go with the boat (aka, the player).

It's pretty simple. Naturally if you don't like the color of the boat (aka, type of player) then you can take a risk and go with the draft (although this diverges from the analogy of the mystery box, the drafter player, being a complete mystery).

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04-12-2010, 07:12 PM
  #22
cupcrazyman
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which team would you rather be ?

Team A bottom feeder with most if not all your picks.restock the cupboard & do it right.

Team B bottom feeder with your most valuable picks traded away & now you must find a way to digg yourself out of the hole that was created & you think this can be accomplished by finding so called wallets & signing players that were initially passed by all NHL teams including your own.

Just Asking The Question.....

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04-12-2010, 07:14 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by cupcrazyman View Post
which team would you rather be ?

Team A bottom feeder with most if not all your picks.restock the cupboard & do it right.
Team B bottom feeder with your most valuable picks traded away & now you must find a way to digg yourself out of the hole that was created & you think this can be accomplished by finding so called wallets & signing players that were initially passed by all NHL teams including your own.

Just Asking The Question.....
Great example of a leading question !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old
04-12-2010, 07:15 PM
  #24
GordieHoweHatTrick
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JFJ?...
Another bottom 5 finish next year?

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Old
04-12-2010, 07:40 PM
  #25
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Depends on the pick

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