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04-13-2010, 02:33 AM
  #1
thestonedkoala
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Too many bloated contracts...

Both Riser and Fletcher have taken on too many bloated contracts that simply need to be moved or worked on.

- Niklas Backstrom is the complete opposite of where we need to go with this team. While I do agree that in a few years we MAY need a stellar goaltender, right now is not the time if we are going to rebuild. Paying 6 million dollars for a goaltender in the short term is not good asset management by this team, especially if that 6 millions can go to something we need more of. Harding and Khudobin wouldn't be a bad tandem nor would Harding and Dubie. But 6 million is a little crippling for a team trying to add assets.

- Nick Schultz...what the hell happened to this kid? He was a promising defenseman and now is struggling to get back in the top 4? 3.5 million looked like a steal a few years ago and then WHAM! He just stopped developing. He struggled this year. He's here for a while.

- Cam Barker, he's new, fresh and an interesting type. But for 3 million, he needs to start progressing and fast. He needs to show why he was taken 4th and become a stalwart on the blueline. He has his up and down moments but hopefully him and Burns can create some sort of chemistry and he justifies not only the overpayment of his contract but the trade to get him here.

Marek Zidlicky - Really? We're paying how much for this guy simply because he gets second assists? And we can't even break out of zone? He's a sparkling -16 for the year and the guy hasn't seen a +/- year since 06/07 in Nashville. I know +/- is not a good indicator for teams but for a defenseman, come on! Hell Johnsson was a + 3 before we shipped him out and he was our top defenseman. Yeah, I know he didn't want to stay. Also for 43 points, he didn't have a lot of goals...But seriously, 4 million for this guy? And for how long?

Chuck Kobasew - Take a pay cut if you want to come back. 2.3 million and you can't stay a) healthy and b) score consistently, you're making Miettinen look like a bargain and that's sad. Really, really, sad.

PM Bouchard - Stay out of our lineup. Please. Take a medical leave for the next 10 years. Do something. Just don't come back with that monstrosity of a contract unless you find your balls or your scoring touch or possibly both.

Really the good deals were; Stoner (two way deal in a year, nice!), Clutterbuck, Brunette (hopefully he stays), Brodizak and Zanon.

Fletcher has worked out some great deals but then he leaves us with questionable ones like trading for Barker, for Kobasew, and Zidlicky. We just have a lot of bloated contracts that make it difficult to move pieces around that we need to dump.

Maybe if we tell Backstrom he'll be going to a playoff bound team, we can get out from under that contract and move that money into getting some scorers, a top line center for the first time!

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04-13-2010, 08:13 AM
  #2
mnwildgophers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
Both Riser and Fletcher have taken on too many bloated contracts that simply need to be moved or worked on.

- Niklas Backstrom is the complete opposite of where we need to go with this team. While I do agree that in a few years we MAY need a stellar goaltender, right now is not the time if we are going to rebuild. Paying 6 million dollars for a goaltender in the short term is not good asset management by this team, especially if that 6 millions can go to something we need more of. Harding and Khudobin wouldn't be a bad tandem nor would Harding and Dubie. But 6 million is a little crippling for a team trying to add assets.
First off, we can't trade Backstrom because of NTC, and he likes it here. Secondly, if he can rebound to his monster season, then he will be well worth the 6 million. We are in this game to get to the playoffs, then win the cup. After 2 years of missing the playoffs, Backstrom will be important piece of us getting back there. His play at the end of the year is encouraging, and I feel so much better with Backstrom as our starter and Harding the backup rather than Harding and Dubie. Dubie has been horrible in the AHL, and looked very shaky in his one start this year. While I agree that 6 million is a lot, I still think it's not as bad of an investment as it could be. I'd rather be set at the goalie position rather than rotating goalies like Philly has been.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
- Nick Schultz...what the hell happened to this kid? He was a promising defenseman and now is struggling to get back in the top 4? 3.5 million looked like a steal a few years ago and then WHAM! He just stopped developing. He struggled this year. He's here for a while.
Most of the guys struggled this year, and Schultz is no exception. He is a serviceable defensemen, but I'd rather see us move him out for some forward help maybe in a package or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
- Cam Barker, he's new, fresh and an interesting type. But for 3 million, he needs to start progressing and fast. He needs to show why he was taken 4th and become a stalwart on the blueline. He has his up and down moments but hopefully him and Burns can create some sort of chemistry and he justifies not only the overpayment of his contract but the trade to get him here.
It's too early to tell with Barker. I thought that he could have played better, but I think him and Burns will have a monster season between the two of them. I think that's got to be our top pairing. Just give him some time, and I'm sure everything will pan out. He's very young yet and has room to grow, so let's hope that he puts in some hard work over the summer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
Marek Zidlicky - Really? We're paying how much for this guy simply because he gets second assists? And we can't even break out of zone? He's a sparkling -16 for the year and the guy hasn't seen a +/- year since 06/07 in Nashville. I know +/- is not a good indicator for teams but for a defenseman, come on! Hell Johnsson was a + 3 before we shipped him out and he was our top defenseman. Yeah, I know he didn't want to stay. Also for 43 points, he didn't have a lot of goals...But seriously, 4 million for this guy? And for how long?
Johnsson's +/- probably would have fell too if he had played to the end of the team played the way that they did. I still think Zidlicky is a good d-man on the blueline. Who would we have playing our PP points? Schultz and Havlat? We need him there, and he did have 43 points. That's a good thing, he has a great shot from the point and looks really good there. Also, Johnsson indicated he wouldn't re-sign with the team so we decided to go with Zidlicky. I think his contract is worth it, we'll see if it was a good deal in a year or two in which case we can probably move him out if need be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
Chuck Kobasew - Take a pay cut if you want to come back. 2.3 million and you can't stay a) healthy and b) score consistently, you're making Miettinen look like a bargain and that's sad. Really, really, sad.
He was starting to come on towards the end of the year, and then he got hurt again. He's still young and he looks great on a line with Brodz and Clutter. I think that he'd also look better than Miettinen on that top line with Bruno and Koivu. We'll have to wait and see how he does next season. 2.3 mil will be worth it if he can pot 20 goals.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
PM Bouchard - Stay out of our lineup. Please. Take a medical leave for the next 10 years. Do something. Just don't come back with that monstrosity of a contract unless you find your balls or your scoring touch or possibly both.
I agree that we would be better served with him out of the lineup, but I doubt he comes back after how long he's been out of the lineup. I'm thinking he's going to hang 'em up sooner or later. We'll have to take a wait and see approach with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
Really the good deals were; Stoner (two way deal in a year, nice!), Clutterbuck, Brunette (hopefully he stays), Brodizak and Zanon.

Fletcher has worked out some great deals but then he leaves us with questionable ones like trading for Barker, for Kobasew, and Zidlicky. We just have a lot of bloated contracts that make it difficult to move pieces around that we need to dump.

Maybe if we tell Backstrom he'll be going to a playoff bound team, we can get out from under that contract and move that money into getting some scorers, a top line center for the first time!
I'm happy that Fletch has been so active on the trade market, making changes as he is putting his own team together. I'm excited to see what he can do this summer. While I agree it'd better if everything panned out perfectly, this isn't exactly going to happen. I think the team will be used to the "system," and with a few impactful signings, we could be right there in the playoffs again. I don't think we can get down on Fletch for trading for Kobasew and Barker. Barker still has room to improve, and I think he knew what he was getting in Kobasew.

I'm not sure if Backstrom will return a top line center. Florida was asking for Jeff Carter from Philly for Vokoun. Vokoun had a way better year and has played very well for quite a few years. I think that Backstrom will yield a nice return, but I think I'd rather have him than Harding/Khudo/Dubie? This way we let Hackett develop in the AHL for a couple of years and is ready when we need him.

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04-13-2010, 03:03 PM
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Backstrom's stats faltered because of a new coach with a new philosophy. He won't get back to the Lemaire numbers under Richards. Overpaid, and if you like Harding you could say we should have dealt him before handing him all that money.

Nick Schultz never really showed much promise. What he showed was a solid positionally d-man who didn't try to do too much under Lemaire. Under Richards, he felt like he was being asked to do the things JL told him not to, so he started doing them all the time. Once he found the balance, he wasn't bad, but he isn't really the best fit for Richards' system(Zanon fits because he is aggressive without the puck, while Schultz is very passive).

Barker is a bust, and we gave Chicago a pretty nice package for him. Worst deal GMCF has made by far.

Zidlicky, he's a PPQB who plays respectable 5-on-5. I'd rather have a guy who plays respectable on the PP while being great 5-on-5(See Johnsson, Kim).

Kobasew isn't that poorly paid, he was a three time 20 goal scorer entering the prime of his career. Injuries derailed his year. Acquiring him got the team going, as it gave them confidence that the GM wasn't going to stand back and watch his team fail. The Latendresse trade and emergence also pushed Chuck down the depth chart, so he wasn't really given the chance that GMCF initially planned for him.

Bouchard, hopefully he works out an injury settlement and retires. His contract was a panic move by a terrible GM after he just lost 2 of his best forwards to free agency, one of which he did not envision losing(Rolston). Him off the team would give up cap flexibility, but I don't see it happening. Damn guaranteed contracts.....More importantly fk Doug Risebrough. Hey, if he get the job in Tampa can we give him Bouchard? How bout Bouchard for Adam Hall and Todd Fedoruk? 1.75M of expiring crap(cap as well) for an albatross long-term that the idiot gave him?

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04-13-2010, 03:20 PM
  #4
GopherState
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
Really the good deals were; Stoner (two way deal in a year, nice!), Clutterbuck, Brunette (hopefully he stays), Brodizak and Zanon.
In order: Fourth-liner/AHL tweener in his second contract, third-line pest with RFA years, took a discount, third/fourth-liner with RFA years and third-pairing defenseman who overachieved (you have to have one of them).

This is another reason why bad drafting haunts you as younger players cost less and are a better bang for their buck. There is a saying that you are underpaid the first half of your career and then overpaid in the second. With bad drafting, you have to continually overpay or find other options to fill gaps for players who did not pan out and most of the time that is through trades or free agency. So until there is better drafting to fill the top-six with a couple more young players (like Latendresse who was paid less than a million to put up twenty-five goals this year), that is what will happen.

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04-13-2010, 03:40 PM
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mnwildgophers
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Bad drafting is a killer. I don't think Barker is as a bad of a deal as people are saying, he hasn't played great, but I also don't think that he really has played that horrible. I say we give him another year or so and then evaluate the trade.

The best part of having GMCF as our GM is the fact that he's willing to take risks. He's shown that he will trade if he thinks the team needs a shake-up, and I'm excited to see his drafting skills. Picking Haula up in the 7th round could end up being a pretty good pick, but they don't normally turn out that far down, but we can all hope.

I'm thinking that this year is his year to show us how his and his scouting staff's skills are. I don't know who we will be taking with our first pick, but I think most of us here are hoping for Nino. It will be interesting to see what he does in the 2nd-7th rounds especially. We need to find some late gems or at least serviceable players at the NHL level.

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04-13-2010, 04:25 PM
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The most painful contracts were all DR's: Backstrom, Bouchard, and to a lesser degree Schultz.

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04-13-2010, 04:43 PM
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thestonedkoala
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Some comments;

For all of those clamoring for a top line center and a winger. We can't have one if we have Backstrom on tab. We could get him to waive his NTC (other teams have been successful), but we need to get his contract off the books sooner then later. This team has never had an issue developing a solid goaltender.

While we're here for the playoffs, Backstrom's third year (half his contract) will more than likely be wasted next year due to this team still trying to find an identity and scoring help. By the time we get into the playoffs and compete, we'll have a small window.

Kobasew is poorly paid. I don't care. He played on an extremely talented Boston team for the last few years. And he didn't spark the winning streak at all. Any move could have. Kobasew is not young BTW. He's a veteran and is turning 28 this year. He also only scored 20 goals once when he was outside of Boston.

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04-13-2010, 05:19 PM
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Kobasew>Mittens. He does everything Mittens does but is more aggressive. The only problem with Kobasew was injuries this year. He will be good next year with Brodziak and Clutter (which was an awesome 3rd line) or he can do the same thing that Mittens did between Koivu and Bruno.

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04-13-2010, 08:27 PM
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I have no issue with Schultz' contract. I think its spot on, and you're *** insane if you think he took a step back developmentally.

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04-13-2010, 08:33 PM
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How can we not get a center or scoring winger with Backstrom on the payroll? I don't understand that.

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04-13-2010, 11:17 PM
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The ultimate problem isn't big contracts. It's lack of talent.

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04-14-2010, 01:51 AM
  #12
thestonedkoala
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Originally Posted by DeuceUNO View Post



I have no issue with Schultz' contract. I think its spot on, and you're *** insane if you think he took a step back developmentally.
So which one will it be? Zanon, Burns, Barker or Zidlicky that'll be turned into a fifth defenseman?

Schultz has always been a steady defenseman but he's never done much more than just be there.

MN, Backstrom is taking up 1/9 of our payroll currently. Add in Bouchard, Zidlicky, Barker, Burns, Havlat and Schultz that's a lot of the payroll sunk into this guys. With Lats and Koivu needing contract extensions...That's going to be even more sunk into those guys.

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04-14-2010, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
So which one will it be? Zanon, Burns, Barker or Zidlicky that'll be turned into a fifth defenseman?

Schultz has always been a steady defenseman but he's never done much more than just be there.

MN, Backstrom is taking up 1/9 of our payroll currently. Add in Bouchard, Zidlicky, Barker, Burns, Havlat and Schultz that's a lot of the payroll sunk into this guys. With Lats and Koivu needing contract extensions...That's going to be even more sunk into those guys.
I'm hoping one of them 5 is able to be packaged for some help up front, that's my hope, don't know for who or what, but I have faith in Fletch.

Backstrom is taking up a lot of cap space, but he is also a very good goalie. I don't think we can trade him, and Fletch knows this. He will have to move Harding, and all I'm saying that Backstrom won't be going anywhere because of the NTC. While I agree DR screwed us on this, Backstrom will be better next year, and he's still a world class goaltender and will be able to help us make it back to the playoffs. Would rather suck so bad next year that you "win" the #1 overall pick? I'd rather be vying for a spot in the playoffs.

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04-14-2010, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
So which one will it be? Zanon, Burns, Barker or Zidlicky that'll be turned into a fifth defenseman?

Schultz has always been a steady defenseman but he's never done much more than just be there.

MN, Backstrom is taking up 1/9 of our payroll currently. Add in Bouchard, Zidlicky, Barker, Burns, Havlat and Schultz that's a lot of the payroll sunk into this guys. With Lats and Koivu needing contract extensions...That's going to be even more sunk into those guys.
If we have all of these bloated contracts as you claim, you would have to add in Boogaard to your list to be consistent. For the money per minute of ice time he gets, he is overpaid as well.

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04-14-2010, 11:26 AM
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You have to spend money in order to put together a team. Backstrom was back-2-back Vezina finalist. If we didn't throw $6M at him, someone else was going to. Just how it goes. DR waited too long and getting too far into the season that a 2nd nomination along with the only goalie that was Top 5 (IIRC) in all goalie categories for the year pretty much sealed the deal.

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