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Redden looks like a goner, Avery maybe

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Old
04-14-2010, 04:32 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Man, heaven help anyone who doesn't have something negative to say about Redden, right? I'm sorry I even bothered to present anything by the party line on the most hated player since Kamensky.

I'm not sure why it's a stretch to say that Redden, clearly, doesn't fit into this team or coaching strategy, yet might find more success elsewhere. Do you think that's an off-the-wall suggestion Inferno? Have you never seen an example of player who struggled in one situation, but responded to a change in environment?

That is exactly what Sather thought when he signed him, clearly this change of scenary 2 years & 2 coach later wasn't the trick. Perhaps a change of scenary to hartford will be.

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04-14-2010, 04:50 PM
  #177
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Doesn't Dallas cover half of Avery's cap hit??

If so, it doesn't make sense to bury him in hartford or trade him.

Just because Prust is here doesn't mean we have to get rid of Sean, he looked good a couple of seasons ago in the playoffs.

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04-14-2010, 04:55 PM
  #178
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First thing i thought of:.....gettting rid of avery means making a run at kovalchuk

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04-14-2010, 04:58 PM
  #179
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MJ...

didn't we all hope that about Redden, when he came to the Rangers from Ottawa in the first place - that maybe a change of scenery would be good for him? A personally, I'm kind of glad that Torts decided to use his minutes elsewhere because as a result I think we saw better all-around play out of Staal towards the end of the season where he added some offense and MDZ got to play more minutes and a youngster. Still, Redden did play nearly 18 minutes per night, which is still significant - not want you want for what he's being paid, but still was very much a part of the effort last season. `

HockeyBurd - I didn't edit my post - the word brutal was supposed to be a synonym of "goes through the motions". A better word would've been disinterested play, or ineffective may've been a better overall term that I was looking for.

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04-14-2010, 05:17 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by TrueBlue9 View Post
First thing i thought of:.....gettting rid of avery means making a run at kovalchuk

What makes everyone thing that there is this hatred towards Avery from Kovy. It's not an issue.

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04-14-2010, 05:23 PM
  #181
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What makes everyone thing that there is this hatred towards Avery from Kovy. It's not an issue.
What makes you so sure it's not an issue? I don't think his feelings towards Avery would factor into his decision one bit but unless he's told you it's not an issue personally, well, you know what they say about opinions.

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Old
04-14-2010, 05:50 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by AOWRanger View Post
Oh boy....the rangers board will have a field day when that moment comes. I anticipate at least 10 threads screaming REDDEN GONE PRAISE JEBUS!!!
I think it will be a day immortalized for years.

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04-14-2010, 08:02 PM
  #183
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Hahaha, yeah.

Look, I love Sean Avery, and I think he can be and is a big part of the success that we have. But I'm under no delusions that he's central to our foundation, or that he must be a part of the team moving forward. He's a third line "superpest" that can fill in on the second line if necessary. But he's still prone to some inconsistency, and doesn't seem to get along with our coach that well.

I really, really hope we keep Avery around...he's a good player, who seems to have toned down the antics that can occasionally prove detrimental to the team, he can score a bit, and distract the opposition like no one else in the game. That said, losing him wouldn't be the end of the world.


He doesn't have to be part of the team moving forward and losing him wouldnt be the end of the world but it would be good if he was there. Unfortunately some people (and this is not you) have short memory. Rewind back to the time of Girardi-Gaborik-Carcillo thing. Avery is the only guy who did/could've done something about it that day. We are soft and we were extremely soft before Prust and Shelley came here so to me it doesnt make sense to get rid of Avery despite refs targeting him, his inconsistencies etc. And as mentioned before some people have too high expectations of Avery. He's a 3rd liner who will get you maybe 15 goals and 30-35 points, bring energy, hits people and harrases the crap out of opponents.

4th line of Prust - Ani - Shelley was extremely effective towards the end. I think Avery - Drury - Cally can be another effective line as well. If Ani ends up playing in top 6 due to our lack of depth at C then a guy like Boyle can step in on 4th line.

Drury, Avery, Callahan - shouldn't sniff top-6 (Callahan less so than other 2 however)
Prust, Shelley, Boyle - shouldn't sniff top-9

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04-14-2010, 08:11 PM
  #184
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I'm on the fence with regards to Avery. I think he's effective, but on the other hand I still get the impression that it's about him more than the team at times. I bet if we demoted him or traded him he would, even after we gave him a second chance, bad mouth the team and possibly the coach just like he did when he went to Dallas. I think he loves playing in this city, but I don't know if he has any special allegiance to this team. He just likes attention... and NY'ers give it to him

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Old
04-15-2010, 12:00 AM
  #185
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Does this mean Torts will let the Rangers do individual introductions at the home opener next year... maybe he will boo Redden with us

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04-15-2010, 12:04 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by kennglin13 View Post
Does this mean Torts will let the Rangers do individual introductions at the home opener next year... maybe he will boo Redden with us
They'll let Redden keep his contract but bring him off the books by making him assistant equipment manager. He can literally carry Staal's jock strap.

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04-15-2010, 12:08 AM
  #187
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It is when you consider that:

1) Redden has to be replaced
2) Jokinen has to be replaced
3) Staal has to be re-signed
4) Girardi has to be re-signed or replaced
5) Prospal has to be re-signed or replaced

That 12 mil will turn into 5 or 6 mil really quick.
1) Cost to replace: 10 cents
2) Cost to replace: 25 cents
3) His cap hit will go up about 1.5m
4) I don't see him getting much of a raise
5) Raise of about 1 mil.

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Old
04-15-2010, 01:26 AM
  #188
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Avery Is Safe

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Old
04-15-2010, 05:26 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Provolone View Post
Doesn't Dallas cover half of Avery's cap hit??

If so, it doesn't make sense to bury him in hartford or trade him.

Just because Prust is here doesn't mean we have to get rid of Sean, he looked good a couple of seasons ago in the playoffs.
That's one of the weakest arguments I've ever seen for keeping a player. Forsberg looked good a couple of seasons ago in the Playoffs, too.

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04-15-2010, 05:38 AM
  #190
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That's one of the weakest arguments I've ever seen for keeping a player. Forsberg looked good a couple of seasons ago in the Playoffs, too.
You guess what, Redden looked good in the playoffs too a few years back. Or at least the legend has it that.

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04-15-2010, 06:15 AM
  #191
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Is it really just that simple? We just have to wait till training camp and then we can just send Redden down? I find it hard to believe it's that simple.......if it is I don't see why people even have to think about it, just do it.

There is no way I wanna see four more years of that, please please no. Talk about a contract that is just crippling your franchise, damn.

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Old
04-15-2010, 06:26 AM
  #192
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Please let it happen. Seeing as how Redden barely made the team this year, I don't see it happening again. Let's hope some of our younger d-men come into camp ready to take his spot.

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04-15-2010, 07:44 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by kennglin13 View Post
Does this mean Torts will let the Rangers do individual introductions at the home opener next year... maybe he will boo Redden with us

sather gave the blue man group a 7 yr/40mm contract. We won't have individual player introductions until long after redden is goone either way, unless slats extends him

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04-15-2010, 08:35 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Man, heaven help anyone who doesn't have something negative to say about Redden, right? I'm sorry I even bothered to present anything by the party line on the most hated player since Kamensky.

I'm not sure why it's a stretch to say that Redden, clearly, doesn't fit into this team or coaching strategy, yet might find more success elsewhere. Do you think that's an off-the-wall suggestion Inferno? Have you never seen an example of player who struggled in one situation, but responded to a change in environment?
Do you think Redden's contract is moveable? Do you think any team is willing to pay 6.5M over the next 4 years for a 12 point player? Even if we send him down and let another team pick him up on re-entry, do you think he's moveable now? Do you think another team is going to pay 3.25 over the next 4 years for a 12 point player? Me neither.

He may still be an NHL dman, but that's not what matters here. What matters is that his value is horrible. He's without a doubt, the worst contract in the league. That's why it's all but certain that something is going to have to give with the Redden situation, sooner or later.

And yes, it's possible that he magically rebounds to become some semblence of what he once was, but let's not forget a few things about him:
1. This is now his 4th coach in 4 years. Clearly, a change in situations hasn't helped him any.
2. In the 5 years since the lockout, he's gone from a 50 pt two-way d-man, to a 12 pt defensive d-man.
3. He's not young. He's going to be 33 yrs old next season. Show me any former offensive d-man at that age that somehow regain their form after transitioning to a purely defensive player. It doesn't happen because their loss of points isn't a result of needing a new situation. It's a result of declining skill.

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04-15-2010, 08:41 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Vito Andolini View Post
Do you think Redden's contract is moveable? Do you think any team is willing to pay 6.5M over the next 4 years for a 12 point player? Even if we send him down and let another team pick him up on re-entry, do you think he's moveable now? Do you think another team is going to pay 3.25 over the next 4 years for a 12 point player? Me neither.

He may still be an NHL dman, but that's not what matters here. What matters is that his value is horrible. He's without a doubt, the worst contract in the league. That's why it's all but certain that something is going to have to give with the Redden situation, sooner or later.

And yes, it's possible that he magically rebounds to become some semblence of what he once was, but let's not forget a few things about him:
1. This is now his 4th coach in 4 years. Clearly, a change in situations hasn't helped him any.
2. In the 5 years since the lockout, he's gone from a 50 pt two-way d-man, to a 12 pt defensive d-man.
3. He's not young. He's going to be 33 yrs old next season. Show me any former offensive d-man at that age that somehow regain their form after transitioning to a purely defensive player. It doesn't happen because their loss of points isn't a result of needing a new situation. It's a result of declining skill.
And his defense isn't even that impressive.

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04-15-2010, 09:04 AM
  #196
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What matters is that his value is horrible. He's without a doubt, the worst contract in the league. That's why it's all but certain that something is going to have to give with the Redden situation, sooner or later.
I understand all of that Vito. I really do, but I'm not interested in debating the quality of Wade Redden as a player.

My issues is with Tortorella. The scapegoating, the thinly veiled threats, playing GM in front of the press, it's all just a lot of smoke and mirrors from a guy who failed miserably at the task he was given as well, IMO.

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04-15-2010, 10:22 AM
  #197
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sather gave the blue man group a 7 yr/40mm contract. We won't have individual player introductions until long after redden is goone either way, unless slats extends him
God, I forgot about the blue man group into.

We lost in a shootout to just miss the playoffs. Even with that fact, our season ended better than it started given that embarrassing season opening.

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04-15-2010, 11:24 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post

My issues is with Tortorella. The scapegoating, the thinly veiled threats, playing GM in front of the press, it's all just a lot of smoke and mirrors from a guy who failed miserably at the task he was given as well, IMO.
Really? What were your expectations going into this year with this team? Two rookies on the blue line. No #1 center. No #1 LW. Wade Redden as a top 4 "D".

Realistically now. 8th place? 7th place? A winning record? What?

I know you don't like Torts and the way he conducts himself, but that doesn't change the fact that this team was horribly constructed and barely talented enough to compete for a playoff spot. I don't think he could've done much more with this bunch.

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04-15-2010, 11:51 AM
  #199
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Really? What were your expectations going into this year with this team?
A high pressure forecheck, a "tougher" team to play against, an improved power play, more accountability, more consistency in their overall level of play and let's not forget more "jam".

The "horribly constructed roster" excuse might carry more weight if many of the guys who failed spectacularly weren't the guys that Torts had a hand in bringing here.

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04-15-2010, 11:53 AM
  #200
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We also finished 9th in a horrible year for the East. If the rest of the conference was up to par, we'd probably look quite a bit worse.

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