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Two Deals this Summer

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Old
05-07-2004, 12:41 PM
  #26
Seachd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltalk
I think it's a bit premature to call Hemsky inconsistent this early into his career. I think his next season will go along way into determining what his value is to this club.
I agree. It's way too early to be getting down on Hemsky. He'll be fine. If he wasn't inconsistent, he'd already be a superstar. Some people expect way too much way too early.

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Old
05-07-2004, 12:45 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Havlat for Smyth ought to be a slam dunk for the Senators. However, those thinking that Ottawa is going to get much cheaper.. consider Havlat's potential stat output and recent contract problems. For that reason, as an Oiler fan, I'd keep Smyth. Smyth wants to play in Edmonton for less money. For many reasons, I see Havlat looking for $6 million or something stupid, and then demanding a trade. Besides, quite frankly, I think Havlat is quite overrated.

The Panthers would be insane to trade Nathan Horton. Remember, they think he was the best prospect in the draft .. and they may be right judging from what he was doing during the regular season before he got injured.
100% agreed. I've always thought so too.

I heard Lowe and Nedved are talking about a deal! imo thats the most important thing.

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Old
05-07-2004, 12:47 PM
  #28
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the thing about Hemsky is that if he had followed the normal development path, next year would be his first in the AHL. The last two years would have been spent putting up all world numbers in the QMJHL. We would all be so excited about having him show up in edmonton in a couple of years.

He is so far ahead in terms of development. The only difference is that instead of reading about a kid having his ups and downs in junior, we are watching it. Hemsky is going to be a star player and the oilers will not trade him away. Lowe has allready said that we have to draft skill and that Hemsky is the most skilled oiler since wayne whats-his-name.

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Old
05-07-2004, 03:08 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltalk
I think it's a bit premature to call Hemsky inconsistent this early into his career. I think his next season will go along way into determining what his value is to this club.
I guess unproductive is a better word that inconsistent. I'm not down on Ales' value. The potential is there. He just needs a good teacher (hopefully Nedved) to help him gain some confidence in his abilities. Horton exhibits confidence already and is almost 2 years younger so from Florida's point of view it's not a good trade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd
I agree. It's way too early to be getting down on Hemsky. He'll be fine. If he wasn't inconsistent, he'd already be a superstar. Some people expect way too much way too early.
well when he gets slapped with the Gretzky-like label, people expect more I guess. nothing like putting undue pressure on a 19 year old.


Last edited by Oil_in_my_veins: 05-07-2004 at 03:23 PM.
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05-07-2004, 08:27 PM
  #30
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How about Smyth, Smith and Hemsky
for
Havlat and Redden (or Phillips)?

I'd do it in a heartbeat, imo Havlat and Redden are the two best players in the deal and Havlat's only 23 so it's not like we'd be getting that much older on rw.

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Old
05-11-2004, 07:34 PM
  #31
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I've offered some of these same comments in the past but I will admit to re-thinking some things after they were spelled out on this thread.

Smyth is a guy I have long suggested we trade simply because his value on the market would be highest of all the players here - along with Eric Brewer. I do believe that the LW is solid with or without the guy because we have guys who are basically a bunch of poor man Smyths. That said, I will admit that his hustle and heart will be hard to replace. Plus he truly seems to want to remain in Edmonton.

But I can't suggest we trade Smyth for anyone other than a prime time centre. A package that nets us the likes of Joe Thornton, Vincent Lecavalier, whoever - it would have to make our middle that much stronger. I can't say that I think either of those guys will come to Edmonton (although something tells me that a sizeable enough offer might tempt Boston) - but that will be what it takes to pull a justified trade of the guy. Havlat for Smyth is basically a lateral move - one that could make this team look like chumps because Smyth's hustle might be the one thing that team is aching for. Havlat is another tantalizing talent, but if he's going to play LW then Isbister is going to remain as a third option in the lineup. We trade Smyth to get the centre we need and open up space for another player - like Isbister.

I can't see the Oilers giving him a raise, but don't think that cutting him outright will make us look too smart. Don't think for a second that a team like Detroit won't want a guy like hiim. infact, he's the perfect guy for that team in the offseason. So if we don't qualify him I can see teams stepping up to offer something tangible, maybe even a raise. If he's a perfect fit there then KLo looks stupid - even stupider considering we dealt Niniimma for the guy.

My prediction is that Isbister gets a multi-year deal at a slightly paired down salary. Maybe an option for a third year at a raise if he achieves certain performance levels.

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Old
05-12-2004, 02:40 AM
  #32
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The following is a list of people who Hemsky will be dealt for...

A. Ovechkin
J. Malkin
T. Ruutu
J. Thornton
D. Heatley

If its not one of those then shut the hiccup!

Its beeing repeated at naseum, but this is just a kid in his 2nd year, you know what 2nd years are? sophmore years a.k.a "the sophmore jinx", this kid came into the league at 19, and was a fixture on our top line playing with a 3rd line centre and R. Smyth. Its not like he had Sakic and Kariya on his line. He scored at a point a game pace for the final quarter of the season for petes steak.

We will never have success in Edmonton if we keep on treating our talent like this, we chased away so many promising kids and if it happens to Hemsky, then Im selling my Oilers jersey, cuz I dont want to be a fan of this crap.

As for Isbister, he warrents 40 games of healthy hockey with decent linemates before he's dumped. If hes not on pace for 20 goals and 30 assists by the All-Star break, then lets talk trade.

The deals are a little wishy washy. I dont do the Havlat deal. Hes a talented youngster, but Smyth stays here unless a team mass overpays, which IMO, Havlat is not an overpayment.

In the event that we did aquire Havlat, why would you turn around and trade the perfect linemate, Havlat and Hemsky are the perfect 1-2 punch and their skills compliment the other so well. will the right centre, those 2 could put up a poor mans Heatley/ Kovalchuk numbers.

thats all for now, say no to drugs kids.

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Old
05-12-2004, 11:49 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
The following is a list of people who Hemsky will be dealt for...

A. Ovechkin
J. Malkin
T. Ruutu
J. Thornton
D. Heatley

If its not one of those then shut the hiccup!

Its beeing repeated at naseum, but this is just a kid in his 2nd year, you know what 2nd years are? sophmore years a.k.a "the sophmore jinx", this kid came into the league at 19, and was a fixture on our top line playing with a 3rd line centre and R. Smyth. Its not like he had Sakic and Kariya on his line. He scored at a point a game pace for the final quarter of the season for petes steak.

We will never have success in Edmonton if we keep on treating our talent like this, we chased away so many promising kids and if it happens to Hemsky, then Im selling my Oilers jersey, cuz I dont want to be a fan of this crap.

As for Isbister, he warrents 40 games of healthy hockey with decent linemates before he's dumped. If hes not on pace for 20 goals and 30 assists by the All-Star break, then lets talk trade.

The deals are a little wishy washy. I dont do the Havlat deal. Hes a talented youngster, but Smyth stays here unless a team mass overpays, which IMO, Havlat is not an overpayment.

In the event that we did aquire Havlat, why would you turn around and trade the perfect linemate, Havlat and Hemsky are the perfect 1-2 punch and their skills compliment the other so well. will the right centre, those 2 could put up a poor mans Heatley/ Kovalchuk numbers.

thats all for now, say no to drugs kids.

Now that was a good post exactly how I feel.

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Old
05-12-2004, 03:03 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#2
Now that was a good post exactly how I feel.
As you go on and on and on LMHF2................. we need more high-end talent and and RW sniper on this team. Havlat addresses both needs. You have to give to get - and although we have lots of LW depth - there is no way I give up Torres for Havlat.

If you notice I only suggest trading Hemsky (who I like a lot and I have ALWAYS preached a go-slow approach to developing the kid) for another very high-end prospect in Horton. Horton also happens to fill another need (big center) but may not be available under any circumstances. But if it took Hemsky to get Horton - I would do the deal in a minute because it's so hard to find big talented centers. The only way I trade Hemsky is if a big young center like Horton comes back in return.

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Old
05-12-2004, 04:25 PM
  #35
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Thanks CanmoreMike, that's exactly how I feel about Smyth. I realize with the plethora of LW's we have, that we could trade him away, but I wouldn't suggest we do so unless we address the need for a #1 centreman. I don't want to see another winger coming back is what I'm trying to say. Especially since Smytty's grit and desire to stay in Edmonton is not that easy to find.

And thanks Mowzie about Hemsky. That's also how I feel about Hemsky. He's a talent, and I'm willing to give him time to develop it. So screw the trade proposals unless we're getting back a superstar (ala Thornton, Lecavalier etc.)

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Old
05-15-2004, 01:14 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smytty's mullet
havlat = anson carter

always a contract hassle and doesn't play when the going gets tough.

and if we even called florida looking for horton in a trade i'm sure the reaction would pretty much be
I don't like Havlat either, but he is young, and got 68 points ( 7 GWG) in 68 games last year. Compare this to Ryan Smyth's 59 points in 82 games.....

In other words, he is a better player then Smyth, so I would take the trade in a second. That being said, it may not make fiscal sense, depending on the length and terms of Havlat's current contract, and I also doubt Ottawa would trade him anyways....

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Old
05-15-2004, 04:17 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic
I don't like Havlat either, but he is young, and got 68 points ( 7 GWG) in 68 games last year. Compare this to Ryan Smyth's 59 points in 82 games.....

In other words, he is a better player then Smyth, so I would take the trade in a second. That being said, it may not make fiscal sense, depending on the length and terms of Havlat's current contract, and I also doubt Ottawa would trade him anyways....
Cory Stillman had 80 points this season and he is fairly young.. Jarome Iginla only managed to score 73 points. In other words, Stillman is a better player than Iginla.. You can't base a player's value purely on points.. much of Smyth's value to the Oilers comes from the dreaded "I" word (intangibles). It is certainly a valid argument to claim that Havlat is a better player than Smyth but please don't make this comparison on points alone. Havlat might outscore a guy like Lehtinen every year they're in the league together but that doesn't neccessarily mean he's the better player..

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Old
05-15-2004, 04:26 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
Cory Stillman had 80 points this season and he is fairly young.. Jarome Iginla only managed to score 73 points. In other words, Stillman is a better player than Iginla.. You can't base a player's value purely on points.. much of Smyth's value to the Oilers comes from the dreaded "I" word (intangibles). It is certainly a valid argument to claim that Havlat is a better player than Smyth but please don't make this comparison on points alone. Havlat might outscore a guy like Lehtinen every year they're in the league together but that doesn't neccessarily mean he's the better player..
I wasn't making this comparison on points alone. Havlat is younger then Smyth, makes less (this year at least) AND has better stats all around this year. Does Ryan Smyth bring alot of intangibles to the team? yes, but all to often this year he went unnoticed. Hustle is great, but the oilers have lot's of players that provide energy and intangibles (Ethan Moreau, anybody?). What the oilers really need is more players that PRODUCE points consistantly (game-breaker types). We need more players like Nedved and Havlat. It's all irrelevant though, since I highly doubt Ottawa would take Smyth for Havlat.....

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Old
05-15-2004, 06:42 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic
I wasn't making this comparison on points alone. Havlat is younger then Smyth, makes less (this year at least) AND has better stats all around this year. Does Ryan Smyth bring alot of intangibles to the team? yes, but all to often this year he went unnoticed. Hustle is great, but the oilers have lot's of players that provide energy and intangibles (Ethan Moreau, anybody?). What the oilers really need is more players that PRODUCE points consistantly (game-breaker types). We need more players like Nedved and Havlat. It's all irrelevant though, since I highly doubt Ottawa would take Smyth for Havlat.....
Agreed. We're loaded with hustle & heart. We need more silky, smooth, skill. I would never want an entire team of Havlats, but I think that we need that 1 pure skill guy (Nedved might not be here, Hemsky is still an unknown). Once you have that skill, you can trade/develop your grit & hustle around it.
Thats been the major stumbling block, imo, of the team in past years. You could never accuse them of not having enough heart, but skill has always been noticably absent. It would be heartbreaking to trade Smyth, but you have to take a careful look at the return. Havlat may not be the best skill guy to after because of his contract problems, but we definitely need a guy like him

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