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Was the leetch trade worth it?

View Poll Results: How was the trade
To much 21 17.50%
Perfect 55 45.83%
We ripped the rangers off 22 18.33%
We want a refund! 22 18.33%
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-08-2004, 10:48 PM
  #26
King of Stankonia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ
This is one of the rare deals where both teams may have won. We received the best defensemen to play for the Leafs in ages. Leetch still has another full season with us where he may be able to help our remaining youth (Colaiacovo, Bell) to develop as hockey talents. The Leafs did not have to give up any of their top three young prospects to get Leetch. Colaiacovo, Steen and Stajan remain with the Leafs something that probably would not have been the case if the Leafs had aquired Gonchar. The Rangers got what they needed namely a pair of youthful players who could become decent NHLers not to mention a pair of picks in this years draft.
Doesn't anyone remember the proposed deal to bring Gonchar to the Leafs? This most common one was Gonchar for a 1st round draft pick, Nikolai Antropov and Tomas Kaberle. My favourite part is how so many people trashed me for my own willingness to do that trade if I were GM of the Leafs back then. In retrospect, if Ferguson pulls off that deal he'd be taking it up where the sun don't shine in jail instead of in the media.

I still think that despite the fact the Leafs made it further in the playoffs than the Bruins, Gonchar would have been the better acquisition. Not to take anything away from the great play of Leetch, but a Gonchar trade would have been addition by subtraction at the very least.

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05-08-2004, 11:08 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Stankonia
Doesn't anyone remember the proposed deal to bring Gonchar to the Leafs? This most common one was Gonchar for a 1st round draft pick, Nikolai Antropov and Tomas Kaberle. My favourite part is how so many people trashed me for my own willingness to do that trade if I were GM of the Leafs back then.
Antopov and Kaberle the most common rumour? Ahh no. The most common rumour revolved around Stajan, Steen and especially Coliacovo just before the deal was made between Washington and Boston. Washington was looking to dump salary by adding promising rookies and prospects when they traded Gonchar, not to add experienced players making over a million a each. This deal you mention with Antropov and Kaberle and a first round pick was a product of the message boards.

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05-08-2004, 11:14 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ
Antopov and Kaberle the most common rumour? Ahh no. The most common rumour revolved around Stajan, Steen and especially Coliacovo just before the deal was made between Washington and Boston. Washington was looking to dump salary by adding promising rookies and prospects when they traded Gonchar, not to add experienced players making over a million a each. This deal you mention with Antropov and Kaberle and a first round pick was a product of the message boards.
That's wierd that the Toronto Sun and Toronto Star would use the HF board as a basis for their rumours.

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05-08-2004, 11:15 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Stankonia
That's wierd that the Toronto Sun and Toronto Star would use the HF board as a basis for their rumours.
LOL, with those papers anything is possible.

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05-08-2004, 11:18 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Stankonia
Doesn't anyone remember the proposed deal to bring Gonchar to the Leafs? This most common one was Gonchar for a 1st round draft pick, Nikolai Antropov and Tomas Kaberle. My favourite part is how so many people trashed me for my own willingness to do that trade if I were GM of the Leafs back then. In retrospect, if Ferguson pulls off that deal he'd be taking it up where the sun don't shine in jail instead of in the media.

I still think that despite the fact the Leafs made it further in the playoffs than the Bruins, Gonchar would have been the better acquisition. Not to take anything away from the great play of Leetch, but a Gonchar trade would have been addition by subtraction at the very least.
I believe the initial rumour was...

To Washington:
1st Round Pick
Nikolai Antropov
Alexander Steen/Carlo Colaiacovo

We gave up that 1st, a 2nd (2005), and a couple prospects who do not have the same potential as either Steen or Colaiacovo. John Ferguson should be recognized for not giving up two top prospects and managing to bring in a true #1 for a package of "ifs".

Personally, I do believe that Kondratiev will play in NHL, but his absolute highest potential is a #3/4 defenseman, where as Colaiacovo's highest potential is a #1. Steen is clearly better then Jarkko Immonen... and I'd take Antropov over that 2nd round pick which has a slim chance at making the NHL (10-20%) which has been proven in past years, even in strong drafts, and that's being optimistic. Even though Antropov's been inconsistent over the last season and was mediocre in the 2004 playoffs, he's still a good 3rd line winger at least.

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05-09-2004, 02:43 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by nordique
No, we didn't win the Cup, we got older and we traded away two high picks and two prospects.

It's a failure, same as the Nolan deal, unless we win it all next season.
The Nolan deal is already a top shelf failure with the power to look incredibly bad if (when) Boyes becomes a top two line force. We traded a captain in McCAuley and a pick as well as Boyes. We have predictably received nothing from a broken down used to be decent forward. I would not have made a trade like that in a sim league. I promised i would not trash the man who is responsible for our lack of success. We all know who it is. He hides behind the numbers a team with our dollar level should provide- minimum. He achieved what should be the base requirements for a team of our stature. Fire him soon, fire him tomorrow.- Not gonna happen, as he still has a World Cup gig and we would be afraid of a backlash if we win inspite of Quinn. We have the most talent, we have the games at home we damn well should win. Blasphemy to the stout and devout Quinn backers who can only keep supplying empty numbers, blah........ blah..........blah. I would argue we could have the same record with " le Goalie" behind the bench and Rick Ley carrying him around.

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05-09-2004, 02:48 AM
  #32
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Upon further review Quinn is a great motivator and players coach. I am wrong, the door is always open and everyone knows where they stand. he could never be outcoached it is just impossible, he is the greatest of all time and can rest easy in his cabin with his quart of rum. Maybe he'll even fly in if something big happens in the offseason....... or maybe he'll keep on sipping his rum. Stay there Pat, just stay there.

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05-09-2004, 02:51 AM
  #33
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I am under the influence and apologise for the outburst but there are times i just can't keep it in. Its not healthy to bottle it up.

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05-09-2004, 12:59 PM
  #34
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Don't know about that

I think Leetch is one of the best and if they would have won the cup this year then it would have been worth it. They did give up a lot for Leetch at his age. They gave up 2 of their top five prospects in Kondratiev and Immonen. They give up this yaer's first round pick whoch could be a huge player in the future and they give up next year's second round pick which again could be an impact player. That is a pretty hefty price to be sure.

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Old
05-09-2004, 10:16 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
I believe the initial rumour was...

To Washington:
1st Round Pick
Nikolai Antropov
Alexander Steen/Carlo Colaiacovo

We gave up that 1st, a 2nd (2005), and a couple prospects who do not have the same potential as either Steen or Colaiacovo. John Ferguson should be recognized for not giving up two top prospects and managing to bring in a true #1 for a package of "ifs".

Personally, I do believe that Kondratiev will play in NHL, but his absolute highest potential is a #3/4 defenseman, where as Colaiacovo's highest potential is a #1. Steen is clearly better then Jarkko Immonen... and I'd take Antropov over that 2nd round pick which has a slim chance at making the NHL (10-20%) which has been proven in past years, even in strong drafts, and that's being optimistic. Even though Antropov's been inconsistent over the last season and was mediocre in the 2004 playoffs, he's still a good 3rd line winger at least.
Leafaholix,
I love your posts, keep up the good work! But I digress with the ass-kissing. . .

I think that at the time, many angles were being discussed in the trade and although that may have been the first one, the Kaberle/Antropov/draft pick/no draft pick was being discussed as well.

Regarding Kondratiev, you give him too much credit IMO. I see him as a possible 5/6 with a bigger likelihood of being a reserve defenseman, while Colaiacovo should at the very least crack the top four at some point in his career. Steen over Jarkko Immonen? I'd take Steen over both Jarkko's combined, and I'm not that high on Steen either. So basically I agree with both your points.

Where I don't agree is with Antropov vs. a 2nd round pick. I'd much rather have a chance at grabbing a Paul Martin than sticking with a 3rd line winger who doesn't give 100% in the playoffs and takes dumb penalties. I've seen Antropov do really good things, because he has the talent, but to have a guy that isn't consistent enough to play on the 2nd line and doesn't play tough enough or smart enough to play on the 3rd line on my team wouldn't sit well with me.

Thinking about that too, with Antropov and Kaberle gone (if the trade were to work out that way), Quinn is forced to go with players that deserved ice time much more than Antropov (that includes half of the fans) and would have been less of a liability than Kaberle.

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Old
05-09-2004, 10:19 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Stankonia
Leafaholix,
I love your posts, keep up the good work! But I digress with the ass-kissing. . .

I think that at the time, many angles were being discussed in the trade and although that may have been the first one, the Kaberle/Antropov/draft pick/no draft pick was being discussed as well.

Regarding Kondratiev, you give him too much credit IMO. I see him as a possible 5/6 with a bigger likelihood of being a reserve defenseman, while Colaiacovo should at the very least crack the top four at some point in his career. Steen over Jarkko Immonen? I'd take Steen over both Jarkko's combined, and I'm not that high on Steen either. So basically I agree with both your points.

Where I don't agree is with Antropov vs. a 2nd round pick. I'd much rather have a chance at grabbing a Paul Martin than sticking with a 3rd line winger who doesn't give 100% in the playoffs and takes dumb penalties. I've seen Antropov do really good things, because he has the talent, but to have a guy that isn't consistent enough to play on the 2nd line and doesn't play tough enough or smart enough to play on the 3rd line on my team wouldn't sit well with me.

Thinking about that too, with Antropov and Kaberle gone (if the trade were to work out that way), Quinn is forced to go with players that deserved ice time much more than Antropov (that includes half of the fans) and would have been less of a liability than Kaberle.
What ass kissing?

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Old
05-09-2004, 11:10 PM
  #37
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Yeah?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
What ass kissing?
Gave up alot?????????????

haha thats a joke...

They gave up a guy who quit and whinned when he got sent down to the Baby leafs, and took his option to go to Russia........

Immonen wont make the NHL small and too soft... (Hurts me to say it, I love the smaller guys :'( )

the picks.. ohh wellll

Leetch is a #1 D man - a PP Specialist, come on people!!!!

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05-12-2004, 11:35 PM
  #38
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You guys are making the Leetch trade sound like the Gilmour or Francis trade. We got one of the best Leafs in the roster (and no doubt the best Leafs defenseman in a decade). Leetch didn't shatter games by himself, no, but he generated/ended plays every which-way. In my point of view, Leetch is "giving" on the team - he's an invaluable member of a great team, instead of just going for being the star. Which is not only more commendable, but it's also better for the Leafs.

Also, in my opinion Gonchar is way the hell overrated.

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05-12-2004, 11:50 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
I know that you often have to filter a little homer out of a coach's praise, but if Quinn's assessment of his contribution is even close then you guys came out alright. Despite being 36 and smoking like a champ (I wonder if he still does), he'll probably play to 40 barring injury. Quinn couldn't say enough about having him as a role model and teacher for the defensive corps. I agree that you guys paid a decent price for him, but it's money (and players) well spent, IMO.
He seriously smoked? well theres no hockey player that could get away with it nowadays.

good trade for the leafs. They were nothing this year without him.

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05-13-2004, 12:02 AM
  #40
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Considering that Brian Leetch will return and retire as a New York Ranger and depending on what/how Sather chooses to use TOR's pick at the draft, I'd say yes.
TOR did over do it.
Make no mistake, Kondratiev opened up some eyes (especially Quinn's) at TOR camp last season. He was sent down to St. Johns with the intention of getting ice time only if players were to become injured. So after waiting around a while with St. Johns (where I'm sure his game got sooooo much better ), he returned to Russia.
So what?
Did that mean he no longer was a top prospect? He also played along side Fedor Tyutin in Russia. He will be welcomed by the Rangers and play a big role.
Immonen will defintely play for the Rangers. He'll need atleast one more season. He's a future 3rd line center at the least. Ohh wellll.
"Leetch is a #1 D man - a PP Specialist, come on people!!!!"
Where are we going?
Sorry, but the Rangers got the better of this trade.

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05-13-2004, 12:14 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliemurphy
Sorry, but the Rangers got the better of this trade.
I dont deny that the Rangers got some decent pieces in the trade, but whether they got the better of the trade remains to be seen. Immonen and Kondratiev still have done nothing and the two picks have yet to be made. Rangers could end up looking very good. Still for two years of Brian Leetch and a 3rd/4th round pick Id make that trade every time.

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05-13-2004, 12:27 AM
  #42
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Understood.
But you'll only have Leetchie for one more season.
It looks like the rebuild is actually happening with the Rangers.
Kondratiev/Immonen will get their opportunity to do something. Although Sather has done a horrible job during his tenure, he does manage to draft well.
It's actually going to be exciting to watch what, where and how the Rangers will be in a few years.

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05-13-2004, 03:40 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nucks&flames
He seriously smoked? well theres no hockey player that could get away with it nowadays.

good trade for the leafs. They were nothing this year without him.
Yup, sure did... if he doesn't still. He's not like Kolzig or anything (who I believe has smoke breaks between periods sometimes... I'm not joking), and I think the stories come mainly from his earlier years and some which included details of evenings on the town which included 2 packs of smokes. It's amazing how much you can counter the effects of smoking with lots of training. I started smoking "socially" while playing university soccer, and it didn't slow me down until the year I stopped playing and thus practising 3 times a week.

In any event, I agree, it was a good acquisition.

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05-13-2004, 08:32 AM
  #44
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Quote:
They gave up 2 of their top five prospects in Kondratiev and Immonen.
Uh, no.

They were both mid-tier prospects.


Quote:
Originally Posted by charliemurphy
Understood.
But you'll only have Leetchie for one more season.
Possible, but I wouldn't count on it.

He may very well resign here, depending on what the Leafs do after his contract is up.

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05-13-2004, 05:57 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Possible, but I wouldn't count on it.
He may very well resign here, depending on what the Leafs do after his contract is up.
Dream on.

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05-13-2004, 06:50 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliemurphy
Dream on.
It's very possible... especially if he's looking to play another couple seasons and then retire... and the Rangers aren't going to be contending any time soon.

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05-13-2004, 09:42 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
It's very possible... especially if he's looking to play another couple seasons and then retire... and the Rangers aren't going to be contending any time soon.
The Rangers not "contending any time soon" has nothing to do with Brian Leetch retiring as a Ranger. You could argue that Brian Leetch is the best American D'man. He came up and spent his career in New York. You will have Leetch for next season. And next season only. He will not re-sign with Toronto.
#2 is going next to #35 up in the Garden.
This is the part that you tell me that the Maple Leafs will win the Cup next year.
If there is a next season, with the new CBA, Toronto you could argue could/will be in worst shape than the Rangers are.
You don't think Toronto has question marks now, much less in two years?
IMO...This season was Toronto's big chance. Possibly their biggest opportunity to go for the cup. I'm pretty upset/surprised that they didn't beat Philly.

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05-13-2004, 09:50 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliemurphy
This season was Toronto's big chance. Possibly their biggest opportunity to go for the cup. I'm pretty upset/surprised that they didn't beat Philly.
I agree that this year was their chance to go all the way and they blew it. But it's not like the whole team is gone now.

We still have Sundin, Mogilny, Nolan, Leetch, McCabe, Kaberle and Tucker. That's a good enough core to still go for it next year and any sane person would have to assume that they will do everything in their power to re-sign Roberts, Nieuwendyk and Belfour. After that who knows, but if there is hockey next year the Leafs should still be in contention.

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05-13-2004, 11:02 PM
  #49
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Yes the Leetch trade was worh it. Leetch's presence on the team will help develop some of our young defencemen. In my opinion we never lost any major prospects and I don't think our first rounder this year is more like a second or third rounder because afterall this draft is a weak one. Leetch may even resign with the Leafs at the end of next year. I bet he plays till he is 40. He looks no where ready to retire and should be able to handle 20 to 30 minutes of ice time for at least two more years. He will pay off dividends for Carlo and Pilar.

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05-14-2004, 02:57 AM
  #50
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Was any Leaf trade in the past 37 years worth it ?? When the goal is to win it all and the final results are always failure in the long run... ???

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