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The road to Gelsenkirchen

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Old
04-26-2010, 08:46 AM
  #26
Maverick41
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Originally Posted by zecke26 View Post
paetzold? he didn't get an invitation.

ehelechner is the 4th, but it seems that he's the frontrunner for being cut.

kotschnew, zepp, endras to WC. and my guess is that kotschnew will be starter.
Thanks for the correction. I'm really off my game today. I'm just so used to Pätzold being on the team, that it didn't really register with me, that he was left off this time.

Ehelechner deserved an invitation after a solid season and got it, but I guess you're right and he will not make the final roster. Still I think it is well deserved that he is/was considered.

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04-26-2010, 09:10 AM
  #27
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Ehelechner deserved an invitation after a solid season and got it, but I guess you're right and he will not make the final roster. Still I think it is well deserved that he is/was considered.
he sure deserved. so did reimer IMO. with ehelechner, endras and reimer we had three german goalies in the DEL that were better than rob zepp IMO. zepp played a pretty mediocre season, some berlin fans even question his future with their team, so i really don't understand why zepp got invited at all.

and with dshunussow and aus den birken two other young german goalies had pretty good seasons. not yet good enough for the national team, but they are future options. so i don't see the point in inviting zepp at all. instead of giving zepp exhibition games, i think one of the younger guys should have getting the chance. and for the WC kotschnew and endras are 1+2 anyway, so the 3rd goalie makes no much of a difference.

ah well, krupp will lead this team to division 1, so i'm looking forward to a fresh start without this guy anyway.

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04-26-2010, 09:44 AM
  #28
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Regarding the discussion about goalies, I'm pretty happy to not see Pätzold on the roster. We have so many guys, that played a better season than he did. Same with Zepp, as zecke said. But anyway, that's not the part of the team I'm worried about. I think that our forwards will struggle to score (as always).

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04-26-2010, 09:52 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by fuechsken View Post
I think that our forwards will struggle to score (as always).
that's why i'm confident that they will finally get relegated. germany is still not able to produce goal scorers for international competition.
all i know is that they should have tried everything to bring back sascha goc, even if krupp, reindl etc would have to step down first.

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04-26-2010, 03:24 PM
  #30
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In my opinion, the DEB is too much concerned about the national team and filling the Arena in Gelsenkirchen. The real problems are a poor development structure for junior players (as you all know ;-)). But Reindl and company are only focussing on the WC this year and somehow hope for some kind of wonder to transform German hockey into internationally competitive sport. IMO, those people are not capable of pushing through the necessary reforms regarding the structure of the DEB. Thus the German hockey will continue being not competitive for decades to go.

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04-26-2010, 06:19 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuechsken View Post
In my opinion, the DEB is too much concerned about the national team and filling the Arena in Gelsenkirchen. The real problems are a poor development structure for junior players (as you all know ;-)). But Reindl and company are only focussing on the WC this year and somehow hope for some kind of wonder to transform German hockey into internationally competitive sport. IMO, those people are not capable of pushing through the necessary reforms regarding the structure of the DEB. Thus the German hockey will continue being not competitive for decades to go.
The DEB can't really do much about the development structure for juniors, though. Their funds are very, very limited. Even with all kinds of reforms, the DEB won't be in a position to help issues all that much. It's up to the clubs and we have all seen how that works: a couple of them does it, the majority doesn't because it costs money and doesn't show immediate dividends.

Cologne as an example of the clubs that put a lot of effort and money into juniors now has to seperate the pro team even more from the hockey club, so that they even qualify for some kind of public funding many soccer clubs profit from. The bottom line is that it costs money and that's as far as the majority of teams in the league look. And it's kind of difficult to put new rules in effect when the majority doesn't like it - same issue as with the schedule: there is more small teams in the league than big ones, the smaller ones pay less for their arenas and therefore have an easier time making money of every additional game. The big clubs almost entirely are favoring a reduced schedule but aren't able to get it by the league since it's blocked by the rest. It's just another example of democracy not being the best way to rule a pro sports league.

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04-28-2010, 09:51 AM
  #32
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You're right, unfortunately. I would like to go further into this discussion, but unfortunately I'm quite in a hurry right now. Just this much: the DEL hockey is build on a large bubble of expected demand, that doesn't prove to exist. The new expensive arenas you mentioned are directed at a market potential that is simply overestimated. But now the clubs are stuck with their high cost structure and you simply can not go back without risking the bankruptcy of the most important German clubs. IMO, German hockey can't exist on the level that the officials would like to see, everybody needs to accept a lower level. This doesn't have to be a bad thing, since you could go for less foreign players and more German players. The problem is, that I see only two scenarios that would lead to this outcome: a major breakdown of the major league structure (we all don't want to see that) or a voluntary "downgrading" of the level of the DEL hockey. And that is, to come back to your point, very unlikely to happen, since the clubs don't have an incentive to do this. What I wanted to express with my posting earlier is, that I would like to see an integrated league structure that is focused on not only providing German junior players with a realistic change to make it to the major league but also some sort of incentive program which supports those clubs who pursue the training of junior players.

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04-29-2010, 11:54 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by fuechsken View Post
You're right, unfortunately. I would like to go further into this discussion, but unfortunately I'm quite in a hurry right now. Just this much: the DEL hockey is build on a large bubble of expected demand, that doesn't prove to exist. The new expensive arenas you mentioned are directed at a market potential that is simply overestimated. But now the clubs are stuck with their high cost structure and you simply can not go back without risking the bankruptcy of the most important German clubs. IMO, German hockey can't exist on the level that the officials would like to see, everybody needs to accept a lower level. This doesn't have to be a bad thing, since you could go for less foreign players and more German players. The problem is, that I see only two scenarios that would lead to this outcome: a major breakdown of the major league structure (we all don't want to see that) or a voluntary "downgrading" of the level of the DEL hockey. And that is, to come back to your point, very unlikely to happen, since the clubs don't have an incentive to do this. What I wanted to express with my posting earlier is, that I would like to see an integrated league structure that is focused on not only providing German junior players with a realistic change to make it to the major league but also some sort of incentive program which supports those clubs who pursue the training of junior players.
Some very good points and I believe it goes along the lines of what most caring fans of the game in Germany have been hoping for for awhile.

However, I'm not sure that that second way of getting to a solid basis for a leauge could work in reality - I would consider a collapse of the DEL to be more likely than a "voluntary downgrading". That would seem to be pretty much the opposite of what the leauge (delusionally) seemed to believe for a long time, and I'm not even sure it could be done within the automatisms the league has created itself.

I guess we'll know in a decade or so.

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05-02-2010, 03:38 AM
  #34
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In response to Vipers and Fuechskens discussion:

Reindl demands an overhaul of the existing hockey-structure (DEL, DEB, ESBG, Landesverbände). His plans will be introduced in July:
http://www.handelsblatt.com/magazin/...roblem;2571410

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05-02-2010, 05:10 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfire View Post
In response to Vipers and Fuechskens discussion:

Reindl demands an overhaul of the existing hockey-structure (DEL, DEB, ESBG, Landesverbände). His plans will be introduced in July:
http://www.handelsblatt.com/magazin/...roblem;2571410
They will be introduced and probably dismissed in July at least if they are any good. If they suck they should be implemented by August.

Do I sound a little pessimistic here?

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05-02-2010, 05:33 AM
  #36
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After the WC I think Krupp may quit his job as national team trainer and as everyone is worried about the quality and quantity of young players in Germany I could imagine Krupp as a national coordinator for the youngsters and kids to give the germany hockey a better structure for the development of young players, including a more professional training, advices in how to rise the amount of young players etc. etc.
Someone who works in friendly cooperation with the national clubs.
I mean I don't know him personally but as I remember he said that he could imagine to work as a trainer for kids or something similar. And from all german players he has the experience on the highest professional level (the others are still playing) and should also know how canadians resp. americans practice hockey in younger years due to his long time experience overseas and as well due to his son.
And if not Krupp someone else who might be qualified for.
This, for sure, might be just one way of many to help Germans
hockey to improve. Another one might be to improve the apprenticeship of German hockey trainers and if not already a requirement everyone of them should have this kind of apprenticeship to be allowed to work as a trainer especially for youngsters and kids etc. etc.


Last edited by EVL: 05-03-2010 at 05:55 PM.
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05-03-2010, 05:31 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVL View Post
After the WC I think Krupp may quit his job as national team trainer and as everyone is worried about the quality and quantity of young players in Germany I could imagine Krupp as a national coordinator for the youngsters to give the germany hockey a better structure for the development of young players, including a more professional training, advices in how to rise the amount of young players etc. etc.
Someone who works in friendly cooperation with the national clubs.
I mean I don't know him personally but as I remember he said that he could imagine to work as a trainer for youngsters or something similar. And from all german players he has the experience on the highest professional level (the others are still playing) and should also know how canadians resp. americans practice hockey in younger years due to his long time experience overseas and as well due to his son.
And if not Krupp someone else who might be qualified for.
This, for sure, might be just one way of many to help Germans
hockey to improve. Another one might be to improve the apprenticeship of German hockey trainers and if not already a requirement everyone of them should have this kind of apprenticeship to be allowed to work as a trainer especially for youngsters etc. etc.
I'd say Krueger is likely.

Anyone who watched the DEL finals probably got the impression that Zach hasn't shut the door on possibly taking over the national team if asked.

And I bet that'd be a VERY popular thing around Hockey Germany.

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05-03-2010, 08:14 AM
  #38
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I'd say Krueger is likely.

Anyone who watched the DEL finals probably got the impression that Zach hasn't shut the door on possibly taking over the national team if asked.

And I bet that'd be a VERY popular thing around Hockey Germany.
I wouldn't mind Zach, he is a great coach, but I'd rather give Krueger a try. I like what he did in Switzerland and I think he would be really good for our team.

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05-03-2010, 10:02 AM
  #39
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By the way. Schmidt and Seidenberg were cut.

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05-03-2010, 01:24 PM
  #40
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So Reiss is definitly in?
Anyone know his # for the DEB? Still trying to get a jersey till friday.

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05-03-2010, 02:11 PM
  #41
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No, there are still 10 defensemen on the roster and two of them will have to be cut.

Still on the roster are:
Krueger, Holzer, Butenschön, Fischer, Dietrich, Hördler, Sulzer, N.Goc, Braun and Reiss

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05-03-2010, 05:19 PM
  #42
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Well Goc will a cut for sure.

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05-04-2010, 02:06 AM
  #43
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Well Goc will a cut for sure.
I think the most likely candidates for the cuts are Goc, Braun, Fischer and Krueger, maybe Hördler.

I'm pretty sure Reiss will be on the team. But with Krupp you never know.

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05-04-2010, 04:23 AM
  #44
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So Reiss is definitly in?
Anyone know his # for the DEB? Still trying to get a jersey till friday.
I think he was wearing #96 in the games so far. Maybe somebody else can confirm or correct that.

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05-04-2010, 04:25 AM
  #45
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That would be so awesome!
He's been wearing 96 for the Scorps because of his love for Hannover and 96 but I assumed the DEB wouldn't allow such high numbers.

Still, don't think I'll manage to buy a Reiss jersey till thursday. Hmm, maybe they'll sell some in Gelsenkirchen.

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05-04-2010, 04:37 AM
  #46
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That would be so awesome!
He's been wearing 96 for the Scorps because of his love for Hannover and 96 but I assumed the DEB wouldn't allow such high numbers.

Still, don't think I'll manage to buy a Reiss jersey till thursday. Hmm, maybe they'll sell some in Gelsenkirchen.
I think they will sell jerseys in Gelsenkirchen, but I'm not sure whether they will sell them with names and numbers on it.

As for the high number, I don't know for sure but players have worn such high numbers before (Braun wore #90, Marcel Mueller #81)

The only numbers you won't ever see on any German player are the retired numbers of Kiessling (#4), Kuhnhackl (#14), Hegen (#23) and Robert Mueller (#80).

On the DEB-Homepage Reiss is also listed with #96. However, that usually doesn't mean a lot. http://www.deb-online.de/index2.htm

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05-04-2010, 11:18 AM
  #47
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I guess that Goc, Krueger or Hördler will be cut. Cutting Reiss would be a mistake IMO, but as you already said, with Krupp you never know...

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05-04-2010, 01:35 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by fuechsken View Post
I guess that Goc, Krueger or Hördler will be cut. Cutting Reiss would be a mistake IMO, but as you already said, with Krupp you never know...
I'm just watching the match against Canada. 1-1 after the first period.
Not too bad, and I'm quite impressed with Braun and Krueger so far.

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05-04-2010, 01:39 PM
  #49
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That would be so awesome!
He's been wearing 96 for the Scorps because of his love for Hannover and 96 but I assumed the DEB wouldn't allow such high numbers.

Still, don't think I'll manage to buy a Reiss jersey till thursday. Hmm, maybe they'll sell some in Gelsenkirchen.
Well he is wearing #96 again in the game against Canada right now. So i assume he will be wearing it through the tournament if he doesn't get cut.

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05-04-2010, 01:40 PM
  #50
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I'm just watching the match against Canada. 1-1 after the first period.
Not too bad, and I'm quite impressed with Braun and Krueger so far.
fischer looks a bit lost IMO.

is wolf playing? if so, where the hell is he?
and besides taking stupid penalties, greilinger doesn't impress me at all. olympics, play-offs...

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