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Old
04-26-2010, 04:11 PM
  #276
SaveByLundqvist
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I'm not sure if I wanna see the Rangers grab Gonchar, he'd help the powerplay but we got a budding talent in Del Zotto. I don't want Gonchar to take any of his minutes on the pp. Also, I watched a ton of Pittsburgh games this year due to fantasy reasons(had gonchar and guerin) and Gonchar seems to be getting worse and worse defensively, he makes a lot of mistakes. And hes kinda injury prone.

I would rather see this team go out a grab a Volchenkov and then stand pat, we need a physical defensive d-man. I know people want changes fast especially in NY, but i think the best thing for the Rangers to do is to nurture our young core. We got aloooot of young guys, they're gonna get better. If theres so much turnover year to year how are we gonna develop team chemistry and identity. I'm willing to be patient and start retooling our team through our system and the draft.

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04-26-2010, 04:20 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by SaveByLundqvist View Post
I'm not sure if I wanna see the Rangers grab Gonchar, he'd help the powerplay but we got a budding talent in Del Zotto. I don't want Gonchar to take any of his minutes on the pp. Also, I watched a ton of Pittsburgh games this year due to fantasy reasons(had gonchar and guerin) and Gonchar seems to be getting worse and worse defensively, he makes a lot of mistakes. And hes kinda injury prone.

I would rather see this team go out a grab a Volchenkov and then stand pat, we need a physical defensive d-man. I know people want changes fast especially in NY, but i think the best thing for the Rangers to do is to nurture our young core. We got aloooot of young guys, they're gonna get better. If theres so much turnover year to year how are we gonna develop team chemistry and identity. I'm willing to be patient and start retooling our team through our system and the draft.
According to Dreger, Volchenkov is looking for a deal that pays him over $5 million/ season. That's a huge pass, if that is the case. You don't pay that much money for a strickly defensive D-man who gets hurt frequently due to his style of play.

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04-26-2010, 04:21 PM
  #278
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I think he is going to deal him for Horcoff. Crap for Crap and it gives a C to try with Gaborik while opening a D spot for Sanguinetti.

Then I agree pray for that buy out period and use it on Horcoff
Redden doesn't do anything for Edmonton. Teams don't just trade for the hell of it, even if they're exchanging two equally horrible contracts.

And you don't want Horcoff with Gabs. Not even as some weird, twisted science experiment.

I'm also a bit confused by your last line. If there is a buyout, why the hell would we re-invest $$$ towards Horcoff? That's probably the most idiotic thing Sather can do. I wouldn't trade our 7th round pick, for Edm's 1st+Horcoff.

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04-26-2010, 04:25 PM
  #279
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According to Dreger, Volchenkov is looking for a deal that pays him over $5 million/ season. That's a huge pass, if that is the case. You don't pay that much money for a strickly defensive D-man who gets hurt frequently due to his style of play.
well if thats the case then pass way too much for him i envisioned 4 mill at most for him. I saw Orpik's contract as a comparable. He makes 4 mil per right?

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04-26-2010, 04:27 PM
  #280
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well if thats the case then pass way too much for him i envisioned 4 mill at most for him. I saw Orpik's contract as a comparable. He makes 4 mil per right?
$3.75 is what Orpik makes. He took a discount though to stay with the Pens. $4 to $4.5 over 3 years would be a fair amount i'd be willing to give Volchenkov, but that won't be enough.

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04-26-2010, 04:33 PM
  #281
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According to Dreger, Volchenkov is looking for a deal that pays him over $5 million/ season. That's a huge pass, if that is the case. You don't pay that much money for a strickly defensive D-man who gets hurt frequently due to his style of play.
5M for Volchenkov is retarded. I think 4M, is a slight overpayment; but I'd be willing to take that depending on how many years he wants. That's not something we can afford, unless there are some moves made.

If we're talking about moving Redden(Hartford), and investing the $$$ towards Anton, I might be have interest, but again, for the right price.

If Rozsival is the one being moved, that means Redden is still on our roster, which means we're still in cap hell. I'd pass on that scenario.

Girardi plays a role similar to Anton, minus the huge hits. Considering Danny's durability, age, and smaller contract, I don't think we should target Volchenkov.

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04-26-2010, 04:36 PM
  #282
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5M for Volchenkov is retarded. I think 4M, is a slight overpayment; but I'd be willing to take that depending on how many years he wants. That's not something we can afford, unless there are some moves made.

If we're talking about moving Redden(Hartford), and investing the $$$ towards Anton, I might be have interest, but again, for the right price.

If Rozsival is the one being moved, that means Redden is still on our roster, which means we're still in cap hell. I'd pass on that scenario.

Girardi plays a role similar to Anton, minus the huge hits. Considering Danny's durability, age, and smaller contract, I don't think we should target Volchenkov.
Ya, i'm starting to think that if the Rangers are to invest some money into an upgrade on D, Michalek or Seidenberg are better options. To a lesser extent Hamhuis. Michalek is a bit underrated and should get around $4 million.

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04-26-2010, 05:02 PM
  #283
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There is no quick fix for this team. 1, or even 2 exceptional players are not going to put us over the edge. I don't care if we sign Volchenkov and Kovalchuk. We are still not competing against the Caps and Pens.

This team needs to be revamped, from within. First wave of players like Cally, Dubi, Girardi and Staal have become part of our core. Guys like Anisimov and Del Zotto made their impact last season. Next year we should see a couple of new faces in the mix. Keep that trend flowing, while we weed out what is hindering our long-term options.

Unless Sather can target players that can help us in 2-3+ season's, avoid them at all costs. Don't bother with re-signing guys like Prospal, since he's nothing more than a band-aid. Instead, give his ice-time to a player like, EC, since he's at least capable of developing into something we need down the road.

Sather likes to gamble. He's in a comfortable, stress-free enviroment, and will always roll the dice when it comes down to a quick-fix, especially if it doesn't cost him any assets.

Drury will play out his contract here. Rozsival's 5M isn't bad, but it isn't good either. And Redden... Yea, everything that's had to be said about him, has already been done so 500X already by 500 people. 18.5M tied up in those three players; an additional 14.5M towards Gabs and Henrik; well spent money, but it's still a good chunk of our cap-space. It wouldn't be a problem, if Sather didn't compound his mistakes.

Voros and Brashear are going to count against the cap next season. Two and a half M, invested on 4th liners that make absolutely no difference on the scoreboard, or off the scoreboard. That money could have been used for most of Girardi's upcoming raise. Instead, we have to now re-use the cap space Sather blew on kotalik, which he flipped into Joker; but we have a pressing need now in our top-6. Hell, we had that need before, and after Jokes.

That's the issue here. Sather doesn't make good decisions. He makes bad one's, and compounds them.

Next season, we're going to have Redden, Brashear, and Voros count against the cap. 8.4M. And we have no superstar top-6 prospects, nor do we have the money necessary to gamble on a guy like Kovalchuk.

It's going to be a long-ride guys, and Free-Agency is how we got in this mess. Avoid the big names this summer.

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04-26-2010, 05:09 PM
  #284
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Ya, i'm starting to think that if the Rangers are to invest some money into an upgrade on D, Michalek or Seidenberg are better options. To a lesser extent Hamhuis. Michalek is a bit underrated and should get around $4 million.
You know, I'd be happy with any of the three dmen you mentioned. They would all upgrade us defensively. But I would still look elsewhere, if it were up to me. Elsewhere, meaning Hartford.

If it were up to me, Rozy would be moved, and Redden would be banished off the planet. And I would promote from within.

I have no problem at all, taking two steps back. Play the kids next season, and the season after that. Get a long, good look at what we have, and go from there. At that point, we'll have developed some of our prospects, and opened up $$$ necessary to actually target guys that fit our scheme, instead of acquiring 'the best guy on the market'. There isn't enough emphasis put on chemistry. Or hockey IQ. People tend to think that skill, and talent, combined with a good work-ethic, is how you win.

We need guys that fit with what we have, and what we want to accomplish. Tactically. Sometimes the cheaper option, is ultimately the better one.

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04-26-2010, 05:14 PM
  #285
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You know, I'd be happy with any of the three dmen you mentioned. They would all upgrade us defensively. But I would still look elsewhere, if it were up to me. Elsewhere, meaning Hartford.

If it were up to me, Rozy would be moved, and Redden would be banished off the planet. And I would promote from within.

I have no problem at all, taking two steps back. Play the kids next season, and the season after that. Get a long, good look at what we have, and go from there. At that point, we'll have developed some of our prospects, and opened up $$$ necessary to actually target guys that fit our scheme, instead of acquiring 'the best guy on the market'. There isn't enough emphasis put on chemistry. Or hockey IQ. People tend to think that skill, and talent, combined with a good work-ethic, is how you win.

We need guys that fit with what we have, and what we want to accomplish. Tactically. Sometimes the cheaper option, is ultimately the better one.
I do think that the Rangers have a couple of D prospects that could play in the NHL next season, but if you get rid of Roszival and run a D of Staal, MDZ, Girardi, Gilroy, and say Valetenko or Sangs, it is really taking more then 2 steps back. Lundqvist will face even more shots that he did this season (And probably higher quality shots) and either get hurt or burn out. Not to mention he wants to win. I have never been in the "Lunqvist might request a trade" group, but this could make him think twice.

The Rangers would be wasting prime years of Lundqvist and Gaborik. The only real option to field a half way competitive D-core is is get rid of Redden, keep Roszival, and add one of Sangs/Sauer/Valetenko.

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04-26-2010, 05:33 PM
  #286
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as bad as Redden has been, if you replaced him with Sangs or Sauer, I think the defense would take a step back. Realistically, if somehow $6.5MM was removed from the ledger, a portion of that would go towards a top four defenseman, perhaps pushing Girardi down to a third pair.

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04-26-2010, 05:36 PM
  #287
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I do think that the Rangers have a couple of D prospects that could play in the NHL next season, but if you get rid of Roszival and run a D of Staal, MDZ, Girardi, Gilroy, and say Valetenko or Sangs, it is really taking more then 2 steps back. Lundqvist will face even more shots that he did this season (And probably higher quality shots) and either get hurt or burn out. Not to mention he wants to win. I have never been in the "Lunqvist might request a trade" group, but this could make him think twice.

The Rangers would be wasting prime years of Lundqvist and Gaborik. The only real option to field a half way competitive D-core is is get rid of Redden, keep Roszival, and add one of Sangs/Sauer/Valetenko.
We're wasting his prime years right now, by supplying him with a team that has too many flaws. And I honestly don't believe these are Henriks best years. I think Lundqvist will remain a top netminder for the next decade, capable of helping his team win games.

Take two steps back. Evaluate what you really have, and what you need. By then, guys like McD, Stepan, Kreider, Sangs, MZA, and Grachev will have some games on their resume. By then, guys like Drury and Rozsival will be off the roster. We'll have more than enough funds to retain our guys. The amount of experience guys like Artem, Cally, and Dubi would have gained over the years of playing against exceptional competition, should result in a more rounded product.

The off-season band-aids are just going to slowly delay a prospects opportunity, even if that player is an often-injured Sauer, or a slow-developing Sanguinetti.

Let the kids play. We're not a playoff team with what we have. One, or two additions won't make that big a difference. If Sather wants to gamble, he should gamble on the prospects he's been developing. Even if it means sucking ass for another season. Anything is better than 9th place.

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04-26-2010, 05:46 PM
  #288
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as bad as Redden has been, if you replaced him with Sangs or Sauer, I think the defense would take a step back. Realistically, if somehow $6.5MM was removed from the ledger, a portion of that would go towards a top four defenseman, perhaps pushing Girardi down to a third pair.
A step back this season would have given us a higher draft pick(s). It would have also given the kids a grasp of what's expected out of them in the NHL. It would have given us a better idea of what they're capable of too. Sauer, or Sang's replacing Redden, would have been awesome.

Girardi, as a bottom pairing dman on this team, means Del Zotto is playing a top-4 role. I think that's a problem, considering how much the kid still has to learn. If we're going to play Del Z that often, against top-6 opposition, why not just fully rebuild, and avoid signing UFA? Play Staal-Rozy-Girardi-DelZ as your top 4 and cycle your 5/6/7 for a year. Gilroy's contract will be next off-season; Sang's isn't going to develop much more in Hartford, it's time to raise the level of competition he plays against.

How much worse can it get? I know it could get ugly, but I think it's time for that to happen. Much like RB's late-season thread he started, I really think it's time people stopped supporting a losing product. If we're not going to drastically change our approach to winning games; we're going to remain on the current course we're on, which is mediocre.

That's why I have no problems avoiding free-agency all together this summer. Or playing kids a little premature.

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04-26-2010, 05:58 PM
  #289
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Sauer or Sangs replacing Redden would have been awesome if they were ready to step onto the NHL ice. Redden's play alone does not make Sangs or Sauer ready to play 18 minutes of NHL hockey per night. That could be a disaster for a young kid who isn't ready to play.

I do agree on Girardi - I just think that in the long run he's better suited for the third pairing role.

As for Sangs developing in HFD...by some accounts his defense last season wasn't good. As for points, for an offenseman, his point total wasn't all that great either. Sounds as though he can use another season in the AHL, at least to start.

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04-26-2010, 05:59 PM
  #290
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Dubi - Christensen - Gaborik
Kovalchuk - Anisimov - Stempniak/MZA/Prospal
Avery - Drury - Callahan
Prust - Boyle/rookie - Shelley

Staal - Girardi
Hamhuis - Rozsival
MDZ - Gilroy/rookie

Damn you salary cap!

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04-26-2010, 06:07 PM
  #291
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A D-core of:

Staal - Roszival
MDZ - Michalek
Gilroy - Girardi

Wouldn't be too shabby and it wouldn't eat up all the savings if Redden is waived. If Michalek got, say $4 million, the team would save an additional $2.5 million. That savings could be kept for next off season or used to add some more scoring upfront.
That is a good improvement on the backline without going crazy UFA shopping and overpaying for say a Volchenkov or Martin.

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04-26-2010, 06:20 PM
  #292
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A D-core of:

Staal - Roszival
MDZ - Michalek
Gilroy - Girardi

Wouldn't be too shabby and it wouldn't eat up all the savings if Redden is waived. If Michalek got, say $4 million, the team would save an additional $2.5 million. That savings could be kept for next off season or used to add some more scoring upfront.
That is a good improvement on the backline without going crazy UFA shopping and overpaying for say a Volchenkov or Martin.
That scenario is based on Redden being demoted. I personally don't see that happening this year. I do agree with your points though. I wouldn't mind that blue-line at all. I think they only thing that would bother me a bit, is where do guys like McD, or Sangs get an opportunity. Only likely scenario, is if Gilroy struggles. That's one spot though.

I'd rather see Redden demoted, and that money saved. Seems like every single season post lockout, there's a player or two being shopped around. For once, I'd like to have 5M+ in cap space available during the regular season.

Staal-Rozsival
Del Z-Girardi
Gilroy-Sangs/Sauer

McD will play in Wisonsin next season. The year after, he could potentially replace Rozsival; not his role, but a spot in our defense.

Im not proposing a winning defense core here. I understand that there will be a lot of inconsistency's. Nobody like to lose, so I do realize where people are coming from. I've personally just have had enough with Sather+Free Agency. That's formula hasn't been successful, and it's time for some type of stimulation, even it it means losing for the sake of developing our prospects a bit quicker, and having an opportunity to draft a truly exceptional offensive player.

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04-26-2010, 06:26 PM
  #293
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Sauer or Sangs replacing Redden would have been awesome if they were ready to step onto the NHL ice. Redden's play alone does not make Sangs or Sauer ready to play 18 minutes of NHL hockey per night. That could be a disaster for a young kid who isn't ready to play.

I do agree on Girardi - I just think that in the long run he's better suited for the third pairing role.

As for Sangs developing in HFD...by some accounts his defense last season wasn't good. As for points, for an offenseman, his point total wasn't all that great either. Sounds as though he can use another season in the AHL, at least to start.
I think Girardi is suited perfectly for a #5 role. He'll be paid like a second pairing dmen though, imo, mostly because he's played that role quite well for us. (Considering his offensive, and defensive statistics, TOI, etc)

I don't think Gilroy was ready to step in this season; nor Del Zotto, despite his solid rookie peformance. Both are quite green in their own zone. I do think Del Z is far better 1-on-1 and defensively than Matt, but I don't think we've seen the real Matt Gilroy yet.

If Sang's replaced Redden this season, I absolutely do agree we would have been far more terrible. As much as I despise the Wade, he isn't awful. He's just, grossly overpaid. Still, I would have gladly taken 11th, 12th, or 13th place over 9th. Plus, we would have gotten a much better look at Sang's, and his overal game would have been accelerated some.

Next season is big. Del Zotto and Gilroy should still be on the roster, starting. I'd like to think both improve next year, simply based on the experience they gained this year.

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04-26-2010, 06:42 PM
  #294
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Hamhuis(3.5),Seidenberg(2.75),Michalek(2.75)

Bury Redden in Hartford, Rozsival a casualty of the cap traded for another Sather "project" prospect who's going to be a RFA after next season and not retained

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04-26-2010, 06:46 PM
  #295
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Hamhuis(3.5),Seidenberg(2.75),Michalek(2.75)

Bury Redden in Hartford, Rozsival a casualty of the cap traded for another Sather "project" prospect who's going to be a RFA after next season and not retained
I think your right on what Hamhuis might get, same goes for Seidenberg, but you are a bit off on Michalek. He will get in the $3.5 to $4 million range,

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04-26-2010, 06:48 PM
  #296
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Hamhuis(3.5),Seidenberg(2.75),Michalek(2.75)

Bury Redden in Hartford, Rozsival a casualty of the cap traded for another Sather "project" prospect who's going to be a RFA after next season and not retained
Theres absolutely no way that happens. Michalek will get around 3.5-5, Seidenberg will get anywhere from 2-3.5, Hamhuis will too get around 3.5-5 on the market.

Seidenberg on a 1yr and Michalek 3-5 years.

If anything we can trade Seidenberg as a rental and get something similar to what FLA got for him.

The additions of Michalek and Seidenberg with the demotion of Redden, solidifies our D core.

Staal-Michalek
Seidenberg-Girardi
Del Zotto-Rozsival


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04-26-2010, 06:55 PM
  #297
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Theres absolutely no way that happens. Michalek will get around 3.5-5, Seidenberg will get anywhere from 2-3.5, Hamhuis will too get around 3.5-5 on the market.

Seidenberg on a 1yr and Michalek 3-5 years.

If anything we can trade Seidenberg as a rental and get something similar to what FLA got for him.

The additions of Michalek and Seidenberg with the demotion of Redden, solidifies our D core.

Staal-Michalek
Seidenberg-Girardi
Del Zotto-Sanguinetti/Gilroy.
Where'd Roszival go? lol

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04-26-2010, 06:56 PM
  #298
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Where'd Roszival go? lol
Damn it, all these UFA signings are making me forget our old players.

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04-26-2010, 06:59 PM
  #299
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Theres absolutely no way that happens. Michalek will get around 3.5-5, Seidenberg will get anywhere from 2-3.5, Hamhuis will too get around 3.5-5 on the market.

Seidenberg on a 1yr and Michalek 3-5 years.

If anything we can trade Seidenberg as a rental and get something similar to what FLA got for him.

The additions of Michalek and Seidenberg with the demotion of Redden, solidifies our D core.

Staal-Michalek
Seidenberg-Girardi
Del Zotto-Sanguinetti/Gilroy.
Alright so I'm off on prices but I'm glad we agree on this. If we aren't going for the big fish(Kovalchuk) then I'd like to solidify the defense, we might not be a powerhouse but a solid foundation on defense will help keep us in more games and get to OT at least more often which was another thing this team didn't do enough.

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04-26-2010, 06:59 PM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SI Ranger View Post
Damn it, all these UFA signings are making me forget our old players.
Now where did Gilroy go? lol jk

If the Rangers are looking to make some changes on the backend, I see them moving him. Otherwise he'll be battling it out with Sangs/Sauer/Valetenko for the last D spot.

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