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Rangers' Top 20 Prospects POLL (#4)

View Poll Results: Who is the Rangers' #4 Prospect?
Ivan Baranka 2 3.28%
Jarko Immonen 2 3.28%
Hugh Jessiman 38 62.30%
Maxim Kondratiev 1 1.64%
Garth Murray 0 0%
Tomas Pock 12 19.67%
Petr Prucha 3 4.92%
R.J. Umberger 3 4.92%
Other (Specify) 0 0%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-07-2004, 07:46 AM
  #1
bmoak
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Rangers' Top 20 Prospects POLL (#4)

The masses have spoken again!

As per your votes, the Rangers' prospect list stands as follows:

1) Fedor Tutin
2) Henrik Lundqvist
3) Josef Balej

Who is the Rangers' #4 Prospect?

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05-07-2004, 08:21 AM
  #2
Blueshirt13
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Factors

First three were easy to vote on without any guidelines but going forward, what would you like us to use as our determining factors for ranking...

1. Readiness to play in the NHL
2. Potential upside
3. Potential to succeed in the NHL
4. Where the player will be 2-3 years from now


Those are the factors I am using, in that order I think.

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05-07-2004, 08:28 AM
  #3
Epoch
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Hugh Jessiman

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Old
05-07-2004, 08:43 AM
  #4
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I have no set criteria for determining this list. Use whatever criteria you would use when composing your own list when voting.

I factor a combination of upside and NHL readiness, taking recent development into account. I have Balej over Jessiman, even though Jessiman has a higher upside. Balej will be an NHL player next year, has a good upside himself, and has been playing great lately.

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05-07-2004, 09:38 AM
  #5
in the hall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOR-TOWN
Hugh Jessiman

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Old
05-07-2004, 09:54 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt13
First three were easy to vote on without any guidelines but going forward, what would you like us to use as our determining factors for ranking...

1. Readiness to play in the NHL
2. Potential upside
3. Potential to succeed in the NHL
4. Where the player will be 2-3 years from now


Those are the factors I am using, in that order I think.
If the criteria above is applied to the remaining group, then Pock has ot be the choice.

He's already shown the ability to play in the NHL and with a good showing in the WC's it enhances his stock. The potential upside for him is mor evaluable to the Rangers than that of Jessiman due to the position he plays. Defence for this team is a much needed commodity. His potential may have been underrated which was the reason he became a UFA, I think alot of scouts missed the boat on this kid. It happens.

Where will he be in 2-3 years?? probably playing along side Tyutin on the top pairing for the Rangers.

I have to go with Pock.

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05-07-2004, 10:00 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666
I have to go with Pock.
Great (or is that feeble?) minds think alike.

Nothing against Jessiman or any others on the list, but Pock looks to me like he's already proven that he belongs on an NHL roster one way or another. He may not improve from here, or he may keep getting better, but right now, I have to say he's ahead of the rest.

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05-07-2004, 10:20 AM
  #8
Blueshirt13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisian
Great (or is that feeble?) minds think alike.

Nothing against Jessiman or any others on the list, but Pock looks to me like he's already proven that he belongs on an NHL roster one way or another. He may not improve from here, or he may keep getting better, but right now, I have to say he's ahead of the rest.
Hehe, I am proud to say I was the first Pock vote.

He looked solid during his brief stint with the Rangers at the end of the year. Considering how bad the team as a whole did, he definitely stood out. Though less than 10 games can't determine a player's value, his play at the WC just reaffirmed that he will be with the club come the start of the year.

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05-07-2004, 10:21 AM
  #9
Larry Melnyk
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Personally, I don't think there should be any set criteria for this....It's a very subjective issue and people will weigh factors differently...Personally, readiness to play in the NHL right now is not my highest factor...Most important to me is how much and how long I gauge a player will contribute to the Rangers once he gets to the NHL..Of course, factors like potential upside and potential to succeed kinda get rolled into this also...

My pick for 4th is Huge Specimen...I picked Balej and Tjutin ahead of him not because of NHL readiness but because from what I've seen already they are, repectively, a top 6 forward and top two piar D-man for the Rangers...

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05-07-2004, 10:23 AM
  #10
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I've been voting for Jessiman for 2-3 spots now. Basically my criteria is 'value'. As in, would I trade player A for player B?

In my mind, the only prospect the Rangers have with more value than Jessiman is Tjutin, and even that's fairly close.

Balej, Lundqvist, Pock, etc, may be more NHL ready (though I can't believe anyone thinks Lundqvist really is) but no one has Jessiman's upside.

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05-07-2004, 11:58 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisian
but Pock looks to me like he's already proven that he belongs on an NHL roster one way or another.
I like the way that Pock looked, but he's proved to you that he belongs based on a handfull of games right after college?

"Where will he be in 2-3 years?? probably playing along side Tyutin on the top pairing for the Rangers."

Come on, PLD, aren't we getting just a little ahead of ourselves here? Pock played a total of 6 games after college. Let's give the kid just a little bit more time before we declare him a top pairing prospect. Granted, he showed more to me in those 6 games than Poti had in 2 years, and more than Lampman (who DID impress me). However, one cannot just make assumptions that Pock will be a top NHL player (and let's face it, if you are playing on the top pairing you are a pretty darn good player or should be) based on 6 games.
That said, the #4 choice can only be Jessiman. He may be a HUGE project, but the upside is equally huge.
Oh, can we please remove Umberger from the prospect list? The kid is not under contract to us and it appears that Jackass has decided that the #46 pick in the draft is of more value (giving us 5 2nd rounders...anyone else smell a trade?).

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05-07-2004, 12:02 PM
  #12
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my problem is that it appears people are putting way to much faith in Balej simply because he's having a good AHL playoff and his stint of 13 games was nice. If anything this shows how minimal in depth our prospect system is as people are so quick to jump over a guy who has a good few games. I mean ya Balej has proven himself at the AHL, but whats to say he doesn't regress?? And those who will say Balej is better because he's proven himself at the pro level is BS. Are we to start saying Balej is better than Ovechkin simply because Balej has played a few good games at the NHL and played well in the AHL??? If this is a prospect thing it should be done basically on potential, skills and nothing else. Not how he played in his 10+ games with the rangers. The whole thing is flawed, especially if a guy like Balej is ahead of Jessimen, a guy who could and may likely be twice the player Balej is.

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05-07-2004, 12:08 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnyquist
The whole thing is flawed, especially if a guy like Balej is ahead of Jessimen, a guy who could and may likely be twice the player Balej is.
How can you say that Jessiman will likely be better than Balej? Balej looked good and has a world of talent. His hand and foot speed is excellent. His hand/eye cordination remind me a lot of AK27. How good Jessiman is will probably not be known for another 4 years. He needs another year of college development and then at least another full year in the AHL. After that, there will be a period of NHL growth (as we all know power forwards take longer to develop). To me, Jessiman is at least 4 years away from making any kind of impact at the NHL level.
Balej may not be as big, but is lighting quick, has a nice shot and is not afraid to swat at rebounds in front of the net. Balej appears to be a top 2 line talent. Jessiman is years away from being at the point that Balej is at right now.

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05-07-2004, 12:19 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
How can you say that Jessiman will likely be better than Balej? Balej looked good and has a world of talent. His hand and foot speed is excellent. His hand/eye cordination remind me a lot of AK27. How good Jessiman is will probably not be known for another 4 years. He needs another year of college development and then at least another full year in the AHL. After that, there will be a period of NHL growth (as we all know power forwards take longer to develop). To me, Jessiman is at least 4 years away from making any kind of impact at the NHL level.
Balej may not be as big, but is lighting quick, has a nice shot and is not afraid to swat at rebounds in front of the net. Balej appears to be a top 2 line talent. Jessiman is years away from being at the point that Balej is at right now.
BUt thats what your forgetting. Your judging a prospect based on his place now. When judging prospects you can't do that. I mean you have to look at potential. Ya Balej will be a top 2 line talent. But Jessimen has the potential to be a top 5 forward in the league, something Balej will never be. Suffice to say I believe a prospect should be decided based on his potential and his talents, not where he is right now. Because based on your reasoning then a guy like Balej should be hire up the list than say Ovechkin, which is utter BS by any standard

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05-07-2004, 12:25 PM
  #15
Davisian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
I like the way that Pock looked, but he's proved to you that he belongs based on a handfull of games right after college?

You answered the question yourself.

"Granted, he showed more to me in those 6 games than Poti had in 2 years, and more than Lampman (who DID impress me). "

Along with his play in the worlds, I don't see the guy regressing to a point he cannot secure an NHL job.

And we were saying he could develop into a top pair guy, not he IS.

So based on where his game is right now, and based on where Jessiman's is right now, I'd rate Pock ahead on the prospect list.

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05-07-2004, 12:38 PM
  #16
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I personally see Pock as a 2nd pairing guy, but thats me.

I give the nod to Jessiman. Right now I think he is more valuable then Pock, Kondratiev, or Immonen (who we tend to forget). He has the most upside of anyone, and could have the greatest impact of any prospect. Sure Pock will most likely be an NHL defenseman, but I'd take Jessiman over him any day because he has the potential to be a Shanahan-Bertuzzi which would be huge. Could he bust? Sure, but I see him as the 3rd best prospect right now. Of course that depends on your definition of thw word "prospect."

Someone mentioned earlier that NHL readiness was a top priority. Not to me. I can wait a couple more years for an impact player over a mediocre guy who just happens to be a couple years older, and a bit more polished.

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05-07-2004, 12:41 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisian
You answered the question yourself.

"Granted, he showed more to me in those 6 games than Poti had in 2 years, and more than Lampman (who DID impress me). "
At the same time, I must ask just how little it would take to show more than Poti?

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05-07-2004, 12:59 PM
  #18
Davisian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
At the same time, I must ask just how little it would take to show more than Poti?

As much as I (and thee, and thou) detest the bugger, he quite obviously has shown that he's an NHL defenseman.


That how I rate prospects, not how they "might" be, but how they are.

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05-07-2004, 01:10 PM
  #19
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnyquist
my problem is that it appears people are putting way to much faith in Balej simply because he's having a good AHL playoff and his stint of 13 games was nice. If anything this shows how minimal in depth our prospect system is as people are so quick to jump over a guy who has a good few games. I mean ya Balej has proven himself at the AHL, but whats to say he doesn't regress?? And those who will say Balej is better because he's proven himself at the pro level is BS. Are we to start saying Balej is better than Ovechkin simply because Balej has played a few good games at the NHL and played well in the AHL??? If this is a prospect thing it should be done basically on potential, skills and nothing else. Not how he played in his 10+ games with the rangers. The whole thing is flawed, especially if a guy like Balej is ahead of Jessimen, a guy who could and may likely be twice the player Balej is.
As I said up above, this is a very subjective area...And since the last time I looked there were no professional scouts on board, nobody is wrong and everybody is right until the pudding is proven 5-10 years down the line..So, if you just look at this as a fun excercise and only consensus forming, it's not really flawed...

The thing about a prospect is where else can he prove himself except where he already played? It can be said about Jessiman, Balej, Sidney Crosby, whoever....And any of them can regress, bust or boom...

I have Balej above Jessiman because Balej had a fantastic year in the AHL, playing and scoring well for both Hamilton and Hartford (in the POs) as well as not looking out of place as a top two line forward for the Rangers..And, on a gut feeling, I love the way the kid plays the game.and he brings desperately needed speed and skill....Honestly, I think Jessiman will be the bigger impact player because he will bring his size and skills together in a few years...BUT I can't ignore the fact that big forwards like him frequerntly go bust and the trend of the past two years isn't optimum, even if I realize the reasons why it happened...

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05-07-2004, 03:36 PM
  #20
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It looks like Jessiman is running away with this one and is the winner. However, I'd like to keep the poll open until morning just to get a larger sample size.

Since I'm not sure I'll be available tomorrow, I'll post the next round now.

Eerily, my top #4 that I posted in the original ranking thread is the same as the one we have going now.

I expect a lof more fragmentation in the voting for the next few rounds, though it looks like Pock has the inside track on #5.

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