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Hudler released from Dynamo contract

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Old
04-18-2010, 06:56 PM
  #76
HockeyinHD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Holland is NOT trading Hudler. When you have Ken thinking he needs to fly to Russia to woo Huds back, and Babs is making trips and calls overseas........ he's staying with the Wings.


Glad to have him back. Filppula AND Cleary will be happy too.
I can just bet Cleary will be happy. Takes some attention off of just him underperforming on his deal if there's another guy doing it too.

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Old
04-18-2010, 07:02 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
He did well during the last two campaigns (14 and 12 pts respectively on third line minutes, 13 min/gm in 09, 11 m/gm in 08).
In the final two series in 2009 Hudler had 0 goals and 4 assists (12 games).

In the final two series in 2008 Hudler had 3 goals and 2 assists (12 games)

In the first two series in 2008 and 2009 Hudler had 6 goals and 11 assists. (21 games).

The moral of the story? When the level of competition elevated, Hudler disappeared.

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Who was the Duck that made that nasty open ice hit (blind side, iirc) last playoffs?
Brad Watson?

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Old
04-18-2010, 07:04 PM
  #78
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Is that a sign of bigger things going on in the KHL? Seems a team folding altogether is a symptom of a larger problem.
The money the KHL was throwing around just seemed like a near-Ponzi scheme to begin with. I never really thought they'd be a substantive international competitor to the NHL. They may poach an individual player here or there, and they may serve as a decent bargaining foil for a player looking to squeeze a few extra bucks out of an NHL team, but they'll be little more.

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Old
04-18-2010, 07:47 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
In the final two series in 2009 Hudler had 0 goals and 4 assists (12 games).

In the final two series in 2008 Hudler had 3 goals and 2 assists (12 games)

In the first two series in 2008 and 2009 Hudler had 6 goals and 11 assists. (21 games).

The moral of the story? When the level of competition elevated, Hudler disappeared.



Brad Watson?
I'm not really in the mood to argue the usual stuff we get into a la Huds, Flip, and Cleary.

The bottom line for me is that they are all roughly paid the same amount. That amount is too much for third line play. They're either your second line (or top six) in the future, or someone is seriously overpaid.

Homer is moot seeing his age.... but if he does come back, it's not going to be for a lot less.

Cleary/Homer-Dats-Franzen
Fil-Z-Hudler
Eaves-Helm-Miller
X-Draper-X (rookie, guy from third line if Homer is back)



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Old
04-18-2010, 07:54 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Cleary/Homer-Dats-Franzen
Fil-Z-Hudler
Eaves-Helm-Miller
X-Draper-X (rookie, guy from third line if Homer is back)
pretty much. something like this i expect:

Homer-Dats-Franzen
Fil-Z-Hudler
Eaves-Helm/Abdelkader-Cleary
Draper-Abdelkader/Helm-Miller

and i can't say i'd be happy with almost no change. i'd like to see some fresh blood.

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04-18-2010, 08:04 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zecke26 View Post
pretty much. something like this i expect:

Homer-Dats-Franzen
Fil-Z-Hudler
Eaves-Helm/Abdelkader-Cleary
Draper-Abdelkader/Helm-Miller

and i can't say i'd be happy with almost no change. i'd like to see some fresh blood.
I am gonna scream if I see Datsyuk lined up to Homer at five on five next season. Babcock is a moron sometimes.

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Old
04-18-2010, 09:24 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by zecke26 View Post
pretty much. something like this i expect:

Homer-Dats-Franzen
Fil-Z-Hudler
Eaves-Helm/Abdelkader-Cleary
Draper-Abdelkader/Helm-Miller

and i can't say i'd be happy with almost no change. i'd like to see some fresh blood.
Oops, forgot about AppleGator. So pretty much set, if both Miller and Eaves are back.

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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I am gonna scream if I see Datsyuk lined up to Homer at five on five next season. Babcock is a moron sometimes.
Homer has been completely neutralized thus far, but yeah, at ES, his lack of speed and other deficits put more pressure on Dats to play defense. When he's your Go To guy for goals--- that's a lot to expect. That top line needs some speed.

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Old
04-18-2010, 09:37 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I'm not really in the mood to argue the usual stuff we get into a la Huds, Flip, and Cleary.

The bottom line for me is that they are all roughly paid the same amount. That amount is too much for third line play. They're either your second line (or top six) in the future, or someone is seriously overpaid.
Dingdingding! 'Someones' I would add.

Quote:
Cleary/Homer-Dats-Franzen
Fil-Z-Hudler
Eaves-Helm-Miller
X-Draper-X (rookie, guy from third line if Homer is back)


Bert's coming back if the cap goes to 58, and the top 6 then will be D, Z, Franzen, Fil, Bert, and Homer, with Cleary or Hudler mixing in for shifts here or there.

Homer-Datsyuk-Franzen
Fil-Z-Bert
Cleary-Helm-Hudler
Abby-Eaves-Miller
Draper.

You absolutely know Babcock isn't going to keep Hudler in the top 6 for long, not with Bert and Cleary both on the roster. The first time Jiri does one of his two or three game pointless streak deals on a scoring line he'll lose his spot because he just doesn't provide anything else but scoring... so if he isn't doing that a-down the depth chart he slides.

So, Detroit will most likely end up with almost 6 mil of players on their third line. Closer to 7 depending on what Helm re-ups for. I'm already annoyed by that and the current season is still going on.

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Old
04-18-2010, 09:58 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I am gonna scream if I see Datsyuk lined up to Homer at five on five next season. Babcock is a moron sometimes.
lol ya, the other team pretty much knows he isn't a threat to take the puck up the ice so all the pressure gets put on dats to control it into the zone.

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Old
04-19-2010, 12:38 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Dingdingding! 'Someones' I would add.



Bert's coming back if the cap goes to 58, and the top 6 then will be D, Z, Franzen, Fil, Bert, and Homer, with Cleary or Hudler mixing in for shifts here or there.

Homer-Datsyuk-Franzen
Fil-Z-Bert
Cleary-Helm-Hudler
Abby-Eaves-Miller
Draper.

You absolutely know Babcock isn't going to keep Hudler in the top 6 for long, not with Bert and Cleary both on the roster. The first time Jiri does one of his two or three game pointless streak deals on a scoring line he'll lose his spot because he just doesn't provide anything else but scoring... so if he isn't doing that a-down the depth chart he slides.

So, Detroit will most likely end up with almost 6 mil of players on their third line. Closer to 7 depending on what Helm re-ups for. I'm already annoyed by that and the current season is still going on.
That's yet another reason I don't want to see Hudler back. We know it's going to happen. No I'm not a psychic, but as you said, a pointless streak and he'll slide down the chart quicker than he could fall down a mineshaft. He's overpaid for what he'll bring here. Trade him to a team that could benefit from someone like him. Our pick-ups this season have worked so well here, I'd be sick if we brought back Huds and dropped one or two... or all three for that matter.

Realistically, as much as it pains me to say, Hudler's contract is just less than Bert's and Williams' combined. With Abdelkader coming up next year it's feasible that we could let them go and be fine with the cap. The only caveat, and it's a big one, is that Hudler brings less than the two of them combine... and that's saying alot given that Williams doesn't provide much at all.

Someone said above that Flip and Cleary would love to have him back... I ask why? They worked well together last year yes, but that's when they were nothing but 3rd liners on this team. Since then both have shown solid top six potential. Again and Hudler may crack the top six, but will slide down quickly.

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04-19-2010, 10:26 AM
  #86
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As I said, Khan should be trusted

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04-19-2010, 10:42 AM
  #87
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I seriously don't understand how anyone can dislike Hudler and what he brings to the table. For the minutes he's played he's always been one of the best points per minute players in the league. People bag him because he's small but he's overcome that time and time again as he's always shown up in the playoffs. Of course, he's also deadly on the PP.



http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...o-rejoin-Wings
Quote:
Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

Detroit -- All signs are pointing toward winger Jiri Hudler returning to the Red Wings next season.

Asked if it was a done deal that Hudler would be with the Wings next season, if he has been released from his contract in Russia, Holland said, "It's a done deal if he wants to come back to the NHL."
Yes please!!

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04-19-2010, 11:34 AM
  #88
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Some things to remember guys when sorting out rosters.....

1. Kindl, Abdelkader, and Ritola are all out of options so they'd have to clear waivers to go to Grand Rapids.
2. Patrick Eave's contract before the buyout was actually paying him 775k/season. It's unlikely that he'll make less than that to get re-signed, and probably will cost around 1M or more.
3. Draper and Osgood are on our cap unless they get traded. You can't bury them in the minors, you can't have them retire, you can't buy them out. They are stuck here because of the 35+ multi-year contract rule.

I actually think Eaves is a candidate to get snagged by an offer sheet. Last season's RFA compensation table shows that a team could give him a max of $1,506,716 and lose only a 3rd round pick. With the cap rising that number will also rise, probably to something like ~1.8M. If a team wanted to get him for around 1.5-1.8M I think the Wings would be hard-pressed to keep him at that price, especially if Helm gets a huge raise. Helm could be a big RFA candidate too but I think the Wings will match just about any offer under 2M and I don't see teams really willing to drop a 2nd round pick or better for a 3rd liner without much offensive upside.

I also think Maltby won't be back unless it's a McCarty type deal where he signs to play in the AHL and signs with the Wings later in the season. I don't think it's a coincidence that Maltby made $883,333 and next season when his contract expires it just so happens Kindl's extension kicks in for, coincidentally, $883,333/season!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
What an effed up system.
So the real cap is $50M.

At least this way, everyone shares in the cap reduction. It's better than losing three or four players because of it.
How is it messed up? The owners wanted a direct connection between revenues and payroll, which IIRC is 57%. Basically if total player salaries across the league are over 57% of revenues that season, the players have to give back to get down to that level. On the flip side, if their payroll ever falls under 57%, all the players will get a check from the league at the end of the season to bring the numbers in balance. It seems like a pretty fair system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Does Cleary's NMC last the entire time?
I like Cleary. But Eaves is the new Cleary. IMO, there are new Clearys in the scrapheap every year.
Stuart's NTC expires after the season. Cleary's NTC (not NMC) expires 30 days prior to the 2011-12 trade deadline. Lidstrom, Draper, and Rafalski have their clauses for the lifetime of their contracts. Datsyuk's full NMC expires after next season and becomes a partial NTC for the rest of the contract.

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Old
04-19-2010, 11:53 AM
  #89
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If anyone offers Eaves $1.5+M, he should take it and run. He isn't worth it.

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04-19-2010, 01:03 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
If anyone offers Eaves $1.5+M, he should take it and run. He isn't worth it.
That would be a 3rd round pick well-earned by the Wings. He's good but he's replaceable.

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04-19-2010, 02:05 PM
  #91
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If anyone offers any or all of the Wings RFAs 1.5 they should take the compensatory picks and do a cartwheel. Abdelkader, Helm, Eaves, Miller... any of them.

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04-19-2010, 02:39 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
If anyone offers any or all of the Wings RFAs 1.5 they should take the compensatory picks and do a cartwheel. Abdelkader, Helm, Eaves, Miller... any of them.
I wouldnt give up Helm or Abby for a third round pick, but thats just me

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04-19-2010, 02:56 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by the banks View Post
I wouldnt give up Helm or Abby for a third round pick, but thats just me
They're also not worth $1.5 million imo. $1 mil max.

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04-19-2010, 03:16 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
Some things to remember guys when sorting out rosters.....

1. Kindl, Abdelkader, and Ritola are all out of options so they'd have to clear waivers to go to Grand Rapids.
2. Patrick Eaves' contract before the buyout was actually paying him 775k/season. It's unlikely that he'll make less than that to get re-signed, and probably will cost around 1M or more.
3. Draper and Osgood are on our cap unless they get traded. You can't bury them in the minors, you can't have them retire, you can't buy them out. They are stuck here because of the 35+ multi-year contract rule.
These are some of the other issues that aren't getting thought about when people are so willing to welcome huds back with open arms. I hadn't thought about about eaves' pre-buyout contract when factoring things in.

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04-19-2010, 03:59 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
Some things to remember guys when sorting out rosters.....

1. Kindl, Abdelkader, and Ritola are all out of options so they'd have to clear waivers to go to Grand Rapids.
2. Patrick Eave's contract before the buyout was actually paying him 775k/season. It's unlikely that he'll make less than that to get re-signed, and probably will cost around 1M or more.
3. Draper and Osgood are on our cap unless they get traded. You can't bury them in the minors, you can't have them retire, you can't buy them out. They are stuck here because of the 35+ multi-year contract rule.

I actually think Eaves is a candidate to get snagged by an offer sheet. Last season's RFA compensation table shows that a team could give him a max of $1,506,716 and lose only a 3rd round pick. With the cap rising that number will also rise, probably to something like ~1.8M. If a team wanted to get him for around 1.5-1.8M I think the Wings would be hard-pressed to keep him at that price, especially if Helm gets a huge raise. Helm could be a big RFA candidate too but I think the Wings will match just about any offer under 2M and I don't see teams really willing to drop a 2nd round pick or better for a 3rd liner without much offensive upside.

I also think Maltby won't be back unless it's a McCarty type deal where he signs to play in the AHL and signs with the Wings later in the season. I don't think it's a coincidence that Maltby made $883,333 and next season when his contract expires it just so happens Kindl's extension kicks in for, coincidentally, $883,333/season!
this man speaks the truth.

As for Hudler, I don't hate him. I like his personality and appreciate his service while he was here. If he comes back, I will be happy.

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04-19-2010, 04:05 PM
  #96
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Helm hasn't been very good this series but he is worth holding onto if the cost is reasonable. Guys with his speed and spunk don't come along very often, and he can score a little bit too. He's a very valuable 3rd liner, they just need to get him going right.

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04-19-2010, 05:24 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
Helm hasn't been very good this series but he is worth holding onto if the cost is reasonable. Guys with his speed and spunk don't come along very often, and he can score a little bit too. He's a very valuable 3rd liner, they just need to get him going right.
Wondering how Helm and his agent will define reasonable, though. I see guys like Clutterbuck and Tootoo earning over a million, and I can see Helm legitimately saying he should get $1.5m, but not a chance in hell I'd give that to him.

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04-19-2010, 08:54 PM
  #98
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If anyone offers Eaves $1.5+M, he should take it and run. He isn't worth it.
Agreed.
There are plenty of adequate fish in the UFA sea.

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04-19-2010, 08:57 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Wondering how Helm and his agent will define reasonable, though. I see guys like Clutterbuck and Tootoo earning over a million, and I can see Helm legitimately saying he should get $1.5m, but not a chance in hell I'd give that to him.
Helm is still about potential, as this playoff series is showing. The long season in the NHL has worn him down a bit. And he doesn't have the jump he had the last two playoffs. How many times have you seen Helm fly into the other team's zone and hit the defense? Maybe it's because he's at center, but he's not the Darren Helm we've seen in past years.

If he gets more than $1.2M i'd be disappointed. Two years, $2.4M.

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04-20-2010, 08:55 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Helm is still about potential, as this playoff series is showing. The long season in the NHL has worn him down a bit. And he doesn't have the jump he had the last two playoffs. How many times have you seen Helm fly into the other team's zone and hit the defense? Maybe it's because he's at center, but he's not the Darren Helm we've seen in past years.

If he gets more than $1.2M i'd be disappointed. Two years, $2.4M.
Don't really disagree with any of it, and that's pretty much the cap number I'm expecting (though not hoping for). At $1.2m, I'd hope for another couple of years on that contract because, right now, I think we'd be overpaying by $300-500K, and there is no guarantee he will be anything other than what he is right now. Again, don't expect it to happen, but it's what I'd like to see.

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