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Hudler released from Dynamo contract

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Old
04-22-2010, 11:36 AM
  #101
thrillhous
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TSN article about the collapse of Moscow Dynamo:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=318976

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04-23-2010, 02:42 PM
  #102
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Please forgive my ignorance but.......

If Hudler comes back are the Wings still bound by the arbitration number of $3.5M or can they negotiate as Hudler decided he wanted no part of that number?

I have an issue if the answer is we still have to pay the $3.5M, as I am sure all of you do. He has played on an average team in an inferior league for the past year, how can anyone justify that he will return to Detroit and be as productive as he was before?

If this is the case and we cannot negotiate I think it is time to look at trading him away and seeing what we can get in return. If Bert, Eaves and Miller cost the same as Hudler I say you get a better "Bang for your Buck" by shopping Hudler around

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04-23-2010, 04:48 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67coach View Post
If Hudler comes back are the Wings still bound by the arbitration number of $3.5M or can they negotiate as Hudler decided he wanted no part of that number?

I have an issue if the answer is we still have to pay the $3.5M, as I am sure all of you do. He has played on an average team in an inferior league for the past year, how can anyone justify that he will return to Detroit and be as productive as he was before?

If this is the case and we cannot negotiate I think it is time to look at trading him away and seeing what we can get in return. If Bert, Eaves and Miller cost the same as Hudler I say you get a better "Bang for your Buck" by shopping Hudler around
Hudler's cap hit for the next two years is 2.875.
http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=15

that said, I agree fully. The wings IMO don't have the room to welcome him back with open arms without having roster issues arise because of it. If he can't cement himself into a top six spot with his play/production, then he needs to be shopped for whatever we can get at this point. I said it above, but once arbitration went through and he still went to the KHL we planned for him being back in two years, not one. It's time to tell him find another european contract or be prepared to not come back here. I don't hate Hudler by any stretch (before it's insinuated), but his production on the bottom six does not equal his cap hit.

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04-24-2010, 12:34 PM
  #104
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I'm still not sure that the Red Wings did the right thing by offering Filppula 3 mil a year for five years, and afterward try to screw Hudler out of a comparable contract.

That being said, I believe that this team acted with the idea that Hudler would be back after a two year stint in Russia, and I do not believe that our team is financially ready to welcome him back.

Yet, I think that there are a number of interesting RFA and UFA prospects that would be available in the year little Huddles is scheduled to make his return. Some might be a better deal for us than Hudler, it will be interesting to see what we can afford and if anyone is worth pursuing.

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04-24-2010, 07:15 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird View Post
I'm still not sure that the Red Wings did the right thing by offering Filppula 3 mil a year for five years, and afterward try to screw Hudler out of a comparable contract.

That being said, I believe that this team acted with the idea that Hudler would be back after a two year stint in Russia, and I do not believe that our team is financially ready to welcome him back.

Yet, I think that there are a number of interesting RFA and UFA prospects that would be available in the year little Huddles is scheduled to make his return. Some might be a better deal for us than Hudler, it will be interesting to see what we can afford and if anyone is worth pursuing.
Filppula has been great this series with 3 goals and 2 assists and he has gone from 11 points to 16 points the last 2 playoffs and looks like he's taken the next step this season. That contract still has 3 years left on it and it looks like it will be a fair deal at least, and possibly a very good deal if he keeps developing.

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Old
04-25-2010, 10:24 AM
  #106
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FORWARDS
Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)/ Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m)/ Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m)/ Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m)/ Todd Bertuzzi ($1.500m)
Jiri Hudler ($2.875m)/ Darren Helm ($0.750m)/ Patrick Eaves ($0.750m)
Drew Miller ($0.650m)/ Justin Abdelkader ($0.950m)/ Tomas Holmstrom ($1.250m)
Kris Draper ($1.583m)


DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.250m) / Brian Rafalski ($6.000m)
Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)
Andreas Lilja ($1.000m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Chris Osgood ($1.417m) / Jimmy Howard ($0.717m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 22; PAYROLL: $56.763m; CAP ROOM: $0.037m BONUSES: $0.000m

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Old
04-25-2010, 11:50 AM
  #107
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Trade him to Toronto! I don't want him back.

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04-25-2010, 12:09 PM
  #108
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I agree. We can't have a 3rd liner getting 2.5M+
When Hudler comes back either Cleary or Hudler has to play line 3 and get 2.5M + not a good cap management.

But I still think Holland stick with his loyalty strategy and not trade him.

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04-25-2010, 12:21 PM
  #109
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Jiri Hudler's return to Red Wings in 2010-11 expected to be made official this week

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....o_red_win.html

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Old
04-25-2010, 12:41 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coincidental Minors View Post
Jiri Hudler's return to Red Wings in 2010-11 expected to be made official this week

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....o_red_win.html
Please God, I hope the Wings trade him

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04-25-2010, 12:44 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by GT500x View Post
Please God, I hope the Wings trade him
Who's going to take him with that cap hit? There must be someone but I don't think there'll be a lot of offers...

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Old
04-25-2010, 12:51 PM
  #112
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Really after everything that has happened and Holland talking to him to see how things are going, I highly doubt Holland plans on trading him at the moment. I'm pretty certain he is happy to welcome Jiri back and see what he can do next season on the team. If he can't cut it in the top 6 next year or struggles to replicate what he did last season in the bottom 6 and 2nd pp unit, then Holland will likely look to move him at the deadline or the following summer, but I highly doubt he is thinking of trade partners for Hudler just this minute.

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04-25-2010, 01:02 PM
  #113
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And what a shame that is considering how deep this draft is...quite a few blue chip prospects that this team can use more of. Trading Hudler or packaging him would be great, but never going to happen

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04-25-2010, 01:51 PM
  #114
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Hudler won't be traded. He won't be shopped. That option will not even be explored. The hand-wringers may as well just check that notion at the door from now on.

It's too bad some people actually view Hudler's return as hurting the team. I can't relate to that feeling. I'm excited to have him back and I think $2.875M, while not great, is fair.

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04-25-2010, 02:40 PM
  #115
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We need Hudler. People who don't get that are overly petty.

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04-25-2010, 07:26 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Hudler won't be traded. He won't be shopped. That option will not even be explored. The hand-wringers may as well just check that notion at the door from now on.

It's too bad some people actually view Hudler's return as hurting the team. I can't relate to that feeling. I'm excited to have him back and I think $2.875M, while not great, is fair.
We get he's not leaving, pretty obvious as Holland has been drunk dialing him on a daily basis since he left, crying in the phone begging him to come back. But I'd rather have a few draft picks for this year and get our hands on a few potential superstars instead od waiting around for the next Ritola.

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04-25-2010, 07:38 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coincidental Minors View Post
Jiri Hudler's return to Red Wings in 2010-11 expected to be made official this week

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....o_red_win.html
I just looked at this and if you read between the lines you can see that Kenny was drunk and thought they said Jiri Fisher was coming back. That's why he was so happy

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04-25-2010, 08:55 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Booyah! View Post
We get he's not leaving, pretty obvious as Holland has been drunk dialing him on a daily basis since he left, crying in the phone begging him to come back. But I'd rather have a few draft picks for this year and get our hands on a few potential superstars instead od waiting around for the next Ritola.
Some people get that he won't be moved, but many don't. Regardless, I don't get the Ritola comment. As if Ritola is in higher standing in the hockey world that Hudler? Or are you saying that the only way to get our hands on potential superstars is to draft them with the picks we would theoretically get from trading Hudler? What kind of picks do you think Hudler would fetch? And what do you think the odds are that we would get a better player with one of those picks, let alone a superstar?

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04-25-2010, 08:59 PM
  #119
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Hudler won't be traded. He won't be shopped. That option will not even be explored. The hand-wringers may as well just check that notion at the door from now on.
Right now, day 1? You're right.
Later, around day 200 or so? Probably less right, approaching totally wrong.

Quote:
It's too bad some people actually view Hudler's return as hurting the team. I can't relate to that feeling. I'm excited to have him back and I think $2.875M, while not great, is fair.
Enh. The problem with paying Hudler 2.875 mil to (probably) play on the third line is that Detroit already has Cleary, who they are likely going to be significantly overpaying to play on the third line and/or getting stuck playing him in the top 6.

If I thought Hudler could play in the top 6 and not be a net liability, I'd be glad to see him make 2.875. I feel the same way about Cleary and what his contract is like.

Hell, if Detroit only had one or the other I probably wouldn't even care at all... but since they have both, if both guys end up not being top 6ers, Detroit's cap situation becomes really messy.

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04-25-2010, 09:21 PM
  #120
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Right now, day 1? You're right.
Later, around day 200 or so? Probably less right, approaching totally wrong.
I'm talking exclusively about the period between now and the start of the 2010-11 season. Beyond that, it's dependent on a number of factors. I won't presume to know how those factors will play out, though I think the implication right now that it is probable Hudler will at least be shopped around in 7 months (2 months into next season) is based more on established bias than anything of much substance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Enh. The problem with paying Hudler 2.875 mil to (probably) play on the third line is that Detroit already has Cleary, who they are likely going to be significantly overpaying to play on the third line and/or getting stuck playing him in the top 6.

If I thought Hudler could play in the top 6 and not be a net liability, I'd be glad to see him make 2.875. I feel the same way about Cleary and what his contract is like.

Hell, if Detroit only had one or the other I probably wouldn't even care at all... but since they have both, if both guys end up not being top 6ers, Detroit's cap situation becomes really messy.
I see Hudler getting some top-6 time. How much I don't know, but I don't believe he'll be a net liability either way. With Hank, Dats, Mule, Flip, Homer, Hudler, and Cleary as the top-7, one of him or Cleary will probably be in the top-6 at almost all times, barring injuries (at this point, I think Bertuzzi will be history, so I'm not counting him).

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04-25-2010, 10:07 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Right now, day 1? You're right.
Later, around day 200 or so? Probably less right, approaching totally wrong.



Enh. The problem with paying Hudler 2.875 mil to (probably) play on the third line is that Detroit already has Cleary, who they are likely going to be significantly overpaying to play on the third line and/or getting stuck playing him in the top 6.

If I thought Hudler could play in the top 6 and not be a net liability, I'd be glad to see him make 2.875. I feel the same way about Cleary and what his contract is like.

Hell, if Detroit only had one or the other I probably wouldn't even care at all... but since they have both, if both guys end up not being top 6ers, Detroit's cap situation becomes really messy.
Here are the for sure top 6 guys next year:
Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Franzen
Filppula

Is Homer coming back? Not sure. Is Hudler any less effective than Homer in that role? I can't see why.
Will Bertuzzi be back? I don't know. He's played well enough to be invited back. But we don't know what kind of money he wants.
It might be best to let him walk and try to sign next year's Bertuzzi, Eaves or whoever is on the scrapheap.

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04-25-2010, 10:35 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Hudler won't be traded. He won't be shopped. That option will not even be explored. The hand-wringers may as well just check that notion at the door from now on.
^This.


Would i rather have a Frolov or an Afinogenov or another top UFA(cant see us makin runs @ Kovy or Marleau anyway) ya i would. but Huds is a decent Plan B i agree his cap number is too high but i see ppl on this board actin like He Blows. hes a boarderline top 6 good top 9 guy. I have no problem with him comin back albeit at the horrible cap number. Only thing im pissed about is by him not let us know he was boltin 4 Dynamo it blew our chances of keepin Sammy or Hossa(longshot anyway).

But ya i dont know what the big deal hes essentially replacin Williams on Roster and i'd make that trade a million outta million times. Only changes to our roster next yr will be bottom 3 Fs and bottom 2 D-Man. Ritola/Abby/Kindl will be up full time. Lebda is all but gone Meech/Lilja/Maltby/Bert r all ?s. So is Homer/Lids retirement status/Contract but i believe both will be back. Lilja and Bert can easily be replaced with another Bert/Eaves like signing.

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04-26-2010, 06:41 AM
  #123
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Here are the for sure top 6 guys next year:
Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Franzen
Filppula

Is Homer coming back? Not sure. Is Hudler any less effective than Homer in that role? I can't see why.
Arguing that Hudler is no less effective than an ineffective player is what we like to call 'damning with faint praise', Tin.

Quote:
Will Bertuzzi be back? I don't know. He's played well enough to be invited back. But we don't know what kind of money he wants.
An issue made more pressing, I should note, by the existence of Cleary and Hudler's deals.

Quote:
It might be best to let him walk and try to sign next year's Bertuzzi, Eaves or whoever is on the scrapheap.
Given the Wings current cap situation, perhaps.

Let's put it this way. Combined, Cleary and Hudler account for 5.675 million dollars against the cap. For an annualized cap hit of 5.675 million dollars, Detroit could sign a legit All-Star class top line forward. Toss in even a fraction of Lidstrom's cap savings, and now you're talking about being able to sign any forward out there.

Do you imagine that Cleary and Hudler will provide net benefit equal to what Detroit could get from a top-tier forward? I tend to doubt it.

This isn't quibbling over an extra 500k in Draper's pocket after a long career in Detroit. It's not snarking over an extra 250-500k to Sammy. We're talking about enough money to land at least one big-time player.

Sub-optimal.

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04-26-2010, 06:51 AM
  #124
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I'm talking exclusively about the period between now and the start of the 2010-11 season. Beyond that, it's dependent on a number of factors. I won't presume to know how those factors will play out, though I think the implication right now that it is probable Hudler will at least be shopped around in 7 months (2 months into next season) is based more on established bias than anything of much substance.
Hmm. An interesting dismissal of an opposing position. I suppose the obvious rejoinder is 'Well, I think the implication that Hudler won't be shopped around a few months into next season in based more on established bias than anything of much substance'.

That was incredibly constructive!

Quote:
I see Hudler getting some top-6 time. How much I don't know, but I don't believe he'll be a net liability either way. With Hank, Dats, Mule, Flip, Homer, Hudler, and Cleary as the top-7, one of him or Cleary will probably be in the top-6 at almost all times, barring injuries (at this point, I think Bertuzzi will be history, so I'm not counting him).
And that's sort of the point, jaster. Because the Wings have Cleary and Hudler's overpays they are in tight against even being able to resign a guy like Bertuzzi, who while not anything approaching a satisfactory answer in the top 6, beat Cleary out cleanly for the spot. It was only Homer's suckitude that got Cleary back up, not Cleary's performance.

I mean, of course Hudler's going to get 'some' top 6 time. When he was here before he spent a fairly solid portion of his ES IT out there with top 6 players, and that was when Detroit was deeper. That's not going to change with a much shallower Wings team.

The point is that there is very, very, VERY limited evidence that Hudler can be an effective top 6 forward in Detroit. There is mounting evidence that Cleary cannot be an effective top 6 forward, either. Further, that those two contracts put Detroit in the position where either or both will have to play on a scoring line shouldn't be taken as a feature of the cap program... it's a flaw.

Now, the degree to which it is a flaw will be determined by a combination of a) whether Detroit can get anyone else in who can actually play in the top 6 and b) whether or not Cleary and/or Hudler can reverse their trends and be effective top 6 players.

God help us, we're certainly going to get an opportunity to see what happens.

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04-26-2010, 08:11 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Arguing that Hudler is no less effective than an ineffective player is what we like to call 'damning with faint praise', Tin.



An issue made more pressing, I should note, by the existence of Cleary and Hudler's deals.



Given the Wings current cap situation, perhaps.

Let's put it this way. Combined, Cleary and Hudler account for 5.675 million dollars against the cap. For an annualized cap hit of 5.675 million dollars, Detroit could sign a legit All-Star class top line forward. Toss in even a fraction of Lidstrom's cap savings, and now you're talking about being able to sign any forward out there.

Do you imagine that Cleary and Hudler will provide net benefit equal to what Detroit could get from a top-tier forward? I tend to doubt it.

This isn't quibbling over an extra 500k in Draper's pocket after a long career in Detroit. It's not snarking over an extra 250-500k to Sammy. We're talking about enough money to land at least one big-time player.

Sub-optimal.
Hudler put up 57pts in 82 games last season he were in Detroit assuming he developed more would place him in top3 (I dont believe he is a top3). If you look at this purely from stats then the two of them (Cleary and Hudler) provides more offense than Frolov for example. Add Clearys defensive game and that bit of offense he contributes to the 3rd line I'd its better to have Hudler and Cleary than to only have Frolov.

Forget about Kovy we could never afford him and I doubt we could afford Marleau.

If we are going to replace them I'd rather replace them with two players instead of just one unless it a player like Kovy (see above)

So Cleary would get replaced by someone like Nystrom or Niedermeyer and Hudler... well who can we use instead of him?

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