HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Carolina Hurricanes
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Capology 2010-11

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-29-2010, 03:15 PM
  #26
totalkev
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Stall View Post
Bieksa is a shell of his former self. Chicago abused him and made him look like he had lead skates. No way in hell I give up all that for Bieksa. I'd rather just waive Sammy if that's what it takes to dump his contract. Most Canuck fans were calling for him to be traded this offseason.. they just wanted to dump his contract. And now he's supposedly worth a 3rd, 2nd AND Carson? I know we're dumping Samsonov back on them but like I said, just eat his contract and send him to the minors if you want to dump his contract.
I think you're just being difficult for the sake of being difficult now. First, Patrick Sharp is good, but not great. Now, Bieksa isn't worth a second-round pick. You're worse that Rutherford right now (i.e. we have great players and everybody else is crap). Why eat Samsonov's $2.8 million (which by the way, the Canes will *never* do) when you can package him and a third rounder to get a top four defender? Their salaries are almost identical, for God's sake.

And it's not a 3rd, 2nd AND Carson. It's a third plus the Canes second OR a third plus Ottawa's second plus Carson. Obviously, the first option is better for us, so the deal is Samsonov, Carolina's second and Vancouver's third for Bieksa.

We got Vancouver's third for Andrew Alberts, so it turns into Alberts/Samsonov/Carolina's second for Bieksa. Two pieces of crap that we're better off without, saving $3.8 million in the process, and a second-rounder for Bieksa. Borderline no-brainer when you think about it, no?

totalkev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2010, 03:29 PM
  #27
vwg*
Scoring Not Allowed
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Krasnoyarsk
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 19,957
vCash: 500
I think we're just at a fundamental disagreement with how to build the team. You seem to want to throw draft picks everywhere to fill in needs while I prefer to keep them so we can keep building for the future. You also seem to think the team is a lot closer to being a legit competitor than I do so you are willing to sacrifice future for now. Again I don't agree there. Also, I watched Bieksa a lot the last few months and while he would be a great veteran presence on our defense, I'm not giving up a 2nd for him. Not for that contract and his diminished play. I guess all we can do is agree to disagree.

vwg* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2010, 03:43 PM
  #28
totalkev
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Stall View Post
I think we're just at a fundamental disagreement with how to build the team. You seem to want to throw draft picks everywhere to fill in needs while I prefer to keep them so we can keep building for the future. You also seem to think the team is a lot closer to being a legit competitor than I do so you are willing to sacrifice future for now. Again I don't agree there. Also, I watched Bieksa a lot the last few months and while he would be a great veteran presence on our defense, I'm not giving up a 2nd for him. Not for that contract and his diminished play. I guess all we can do is agree to disagree.
I resent the comment that "you seem to want to throw draft picks everywhere to fill in needs." I agree with you on continuing to build for the future through the draft. It is clearly and obviously the only way for the Canes to be consistently competitive. I'm there.

On the other hand, the Canes have 11 picks in this draft. I can 100% guarantee you that they will not make 11 selections. I can probably guarantee you that they won't make any more than eight at the most. We have depth, in terms of picks/prospects. If you continue to stockpile picks and prospects, you end up the St. Louis Blues or Los Angeles Kings. Stockpiling picks and prospects is only the first step. Trading and signing free agents to create a mix of youngsters and veterans is how you turn potential into production.

You seem to think you can draft yourself to a title and you just can't. It's a critical piece, but it's just a piece. You have to use all your assets well, draft picks and prospects are valuable assets. Plus, by all accounts this is an extremely deep draft, thus, our "extra" picks are more valuable this year than any other year. We can easily add a few veteran NHLers and still maintain enough picks to continue to build our system.

As for the Canes' current situation, you're just never more than a year away from competing in the cap era. Any team that plans specifically for a season more than one year in the future is flushing opportunity. With the Core that the Canes have, and the way they played the second half of the season, I'm not sure how you can say that they are more than a player or two away from competing. Especially when you look at the current state of the Eastern Conference. The Flyers are representing the East in the Final. They beat Boston to get there. Washington is clearly built for the regular season and not the playoffs.

The Canes should be looking to build a young roster to be consistently competitive, but to do that at the expense of 2010-11 would be silly, IMO.

totalkev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2010, 03:56 PM
  #29
vwg*
Scoring Not Allowed
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Krasnoyarsk
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 19,957
vCash: 500
I think we can just draft our way to the title? You think this because I won't trade valuable (that's what I perceive them as anyway) picks for Sharp and an overpaid Bieksa. Sorry, I don't follow the logic.

I'm not against trading our picks. If you've read the trade forum before I have proposed the #7th for Hemsky and I also proposed a trade of a 2nd/3rds and prospects for Versteeg (don't remember the exact one I proposed).

I guess I don't value Sharp as much as you do. I think he's a good, two way versatile guy, but he's really only a top line wing on a stacked Hawks team but he's better as a second line center/wing and not facing the top D pairings every night. I like Hemsky better because he IS a first line talent no doubt. Scoring near a PPG on horrible Oilers teams is evidence enough for me. I also like Versteeg because we wouldn't have to trade as much to get him.

I'm not against trading picks at all.. especially if we can add a guy like Versteeg or use the 2nd/3rds to move up. I don't necessarily want to hoard all 11 picks.

And my apologies if I offended you with my earlier comment. I meant to put "no offense" but I forget. I really don't mean to offend anyone.

vwg* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2010, 04:00 PM
  #30
imayagainknowanson
Jailbait
 
imayagainknowanson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 6,913
vCash: 500
Sharp is great second liner, he reminds me for Justin .

imayagainknowanson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2010, 06:24 PM
  #31
GreenPenInk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 513
vCash: 500
I don't mean this to sound like an ******* but the fact I got two fans to argue is good enough for me. Means the offer is in the realm of possibility (needs tweaking) from our (fans) point of view even though trades never ever pan out close to HF proposals.

To sell Bieksa a little more... he isn't as bad as he showed last year, and even then he was putting up points which is his biggest asset. Also I really feel like he will benefit greatly from a new environment and coach. It's like AV botched Bieksa's castration, took away all his snarl without improving his effectiveness whatsoever. That could also be attributed to his calf injury which wasn't 100% healed at the time of the playoffs.

Anyway I think he will play a lot better next year if he has a fresh start and a good defensive partner, either Gleason or Pitkanen from the Canes.

GreenPenInk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2010, 01:00 AM
  #32
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,152
vCash: 562
added Matsumoto and Sanguinetti after trades, plus Samson's new contract.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-01-2010, 08:39 AM
  #33
Chrispy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 974
vCash: 500
With the Brind'Amour buyout, I have the current salary + buyouts at $40.1 million. That includes McBain and Sanguinetti in the back, but not Boychuk's .875 yet. So $40.1 million still requires Babchuk or another defenseman, 2 forwards, and Peters, and that's a bare minimum roster without healthy scratches.


Last edited by Chrispy: 07-01-2010 at 08:50 AM.
Chrispy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-01-2010, 09:34 AM
  #34
Jerry Lundegaard
Sutter for Captain
 
Jerry Lundegaard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 4,033
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrispy View Post
With the Brind'Amour buyout, I have the current salary + buyouts at $40.1 million. That includes McBain and Sanguinetti in the back, but not Boychuk's .875 yet. So $40.1 million still requires Babchuk or another defenseman, 2 forwards, and Peters, and that's a bare minimum roster without healthy scratches.

Dman with NHL experience...please...any of em

Jerry Lundegaard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-01-2010, 12:56 PM
  #35
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,152
vCash: 562
Anton Bomb added, 1.4

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2010, 08:03 PM
  #36
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,152
vCash: 562
Peters added

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2010, 05:05 PM
  #37
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,152
vCash: 562
Corvo, Borer, Blanchard added to list.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2010, 05:36 PM
  #38
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,152
vCash: 562
updated with Pogge and Rodney signings.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2010, 02:51 PM
  #39
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,152
vCash: 562
added Nash signing

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2010, 10:39 PM
  #40
Obi Wan LaRosie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,701
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Obi Wan LaRosie Send a message via Yahoo to Obi Wan LaRosie
So, capology experts, what is our salary at now? If it is over 42 million thats ridiculous since we have like 6 players under a million.

Obi Wan LaRosie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2010, 10:45 PM
  #41
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,152
vCash: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moosetache View Post
So, capology experts, what is our salary at now? If it is over 42 million thats ridiculous since we have like 6 players under a million.
I need to look further into the escalating contracts of some of these guys. I know a few (Nash, Ward) are paid less then their actual cap hits this year so it may be in fact that we're closer to 42 million then the 46 I have us at.


Edit: just did the math, just shy of 44 million not counting the buyout money to Brind'Amour or Kaberle. That's with 22 under contract including some of the two-way deals.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2010, 12:02 PM
  #42
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,152
vCash: 562
added Carson, replaces Sanguinetti as #6 on depth chart.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2010, 12:13 PM
  #43
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,152
vCash: 562
O'Sullivan added.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2010, 01:20 PM
  #44
What the Faulk
The Real Swede Shady
 
What the Faulk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
Posts: 28,152
vCash: 500
I love Boychuk's oddly specific salary

What the Faulk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2010, 01:34 PM
  #45
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,152
vCash: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sam View Post
I love Boychuk's oddly specific salary
yeah, though it's the only one on our payroll that's not easily illustrated. It was originally supposed to be 1.25 or 1.225 per but sending him back to juniors the year after he signed the contract does something to the overall cap hit. IIRC the signing bonus is being covered over 4 years rather then the 3 it's supposed to be or something like that.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2010, 10:26 PM
  #46
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,152
vCash: 562
updated for current roster. team cap number will be updated after 2 remaining extras are sent back to the AHL.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2010, 02:41 AM
  #47
Sasha Cares
28 mph!!!!!!!
 
Sasha Cares's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Island of Misfit Toy
Posts: 9,474
vCash: 500
Shouldn't this be a salary floor thread

Sasha Cares is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-08-2010, 11:53 PM
  #48
totalkev
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Stall View Post
I think we can just draft our way to the title? You think this because I won't trade valuable (that's what I perceive them as anyway) picks for Sharp and an overpaid Bieksa. Sorry, I don't follow the logic.

I'm not against trading our picks. If you've read the trade forum before I have proposed the #7th for Hemsky and I also proposed a trade of a 2nd/3rds and prospects for Versteeg (don't remember the exact one I proposed).

I guess I don't value Sharp as much as you do. I think he's a good, two way versatile guy, but he's really only a top line wing on a stacked Hawks team but he's better as a second line center/wing and not facing the top D pairings every night. I like Hemsky better because he IS a first line talent no doubt. Scoring near a PPG on horrible Oilers teams is evidence enough for me. I also like Versteeg because we wouldn't have to trade as much to get him.

I'm not against trading picks at all.. especially if we can add a guy like Versteeg or use the 2nd/3rds to move up. I don't necessarily want to hoard all 11 picks.

And my apologies if I offended you with my earlier comment. I meant to put "no offense" but I forget. I really don't mean to offend anyone.
I just want to go on record as saying that the reason the Blues are one of the best teams in the league in the early season is that they used their prospect depth to fill a huge hole in goal when they got Halak for Lars Eller and Ian Schultz. Instead of sitting around forever for guys like Boychuk and Bowman to figure things out, maybe we can use them to get a top-line winger? And I'd *still* rather have Sharp than Versteeg.

I'm sure there are "prospect watchers" who were convinced the Blues got hosed on that deal.

totalkev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-09-2010, 12:06 AM
  #49
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,152
vCash: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
I just want to go on record as saying that the reason the Blues are one of the best teams in the league in the early season is that they used their prospect depth to fill a huge hole in goal when they got Halak for Lars Eller and Ian Schultz. Instead of sitting around forever for guys like Boychuk and Bowman to figure things out, maybe we can use them to get a top-line winger? And I'd *still* rather have Sharp than Versteeg.

I'm sure there are "prospect watchers" who were convinced the Blues got hosed on that deal.
Not that I disagree with you, but I'd say that a Boychuk-Bowman package would be better then an Eller-Schultz package was. If anything Montreal was the team that got hosed in that trade. I felt for a while that Price was the goalie they should have moved, and Halak's play with the Blues has done nothing to dissuade me from that position. I'd also say Sharp is not better at LW then Halak is in net. I'd be alright with offering up something around Bowman and Sanguinetti to get Sharp, but I don't think Boychuk should be part of that equation.

I wonder what Calgary would want back for Bourque if they continue this slide. Doubt he'd cost as much as Sharp, and he's offensively gifted enough to play with Staal and give us two legit scoring lines by keeping the Skinner-Ruutu-Cole line intact. Then again, I figured O'Sullivan might get his shot at the Staal line by now, which hasn't happened for some reason.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2010, 02:20 PM
  #50
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,152
vCash: 562
Updated to include White, Sutter and Bodie

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:33 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.