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Howard or Osgood in Game 4.

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Old
04-19-2010, 07:31 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
This season was crucial to see if Howard can play in the NHL or not, had he been terrible and Osgood been like he was, we would've almost forced to get rid of Howard since Holland wouldn't get rid of Osgood.

Now in the playoffs, I think it's just as important to allow him to grow, win or lose.
what might be an uncomfortable truth for some people.

edit: with that said, if we start getting shelled in game 4, I pull him half way through and don't think twice about it.

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04-19-2010, 07:45 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
what might be an uncomfortable truth for some people.

edit: with that said, if we start getting shelled in game 4, I pull him half way through and don't think twice about it.
Thats the different between people who just dont understand the entire picture and those who do. Sometimes you gotta lose to win, play through the hard times for kids to grow. Detroit fans are the most SPOILED fan group on here. Hey, I want to win every year along with the next guy but you wont see me after the playoff season say "Should have benched Datsyuk in the 04-05, 05-06 playoffs"... People need to stop with their whining BS and realize what kind of LONG TERM affect this could have on the team. We've all seen 4 cups and 6 finals appearences in the past 15 years, good god.. Some teams like Buffalo, Ottawa and Edmonton saw it only once, while who knows how many NEVER SAW IT...

Play Howard, win or lose. Pulling a rookie when he's in the learning process is by far the dumbest thing to do for any organization who actually see's a future in him.

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04-19-2010, 08:03 PM
  #103
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Osgood did not earn the privilege of getting any playoff action this year outside of coming into a game when Howard is getting torched. Howie hasn't been good at all in his 3 games this post season, however, nor has Detroit's defense. Rafalski has been getting burned left and right. Kronwall has been invisible and Ericsson has been the same guy we have seen all year. Lilja, Stuart and Lidstrom have been okay at best.

Plus it gets Howard playoff experience for a year where we actually may have Cup aspirations...because frankly if this team keeps playing like this, regardless of the outcome of this series, they dont have a shot.

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Old
04-19-2010, 08:12 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
what might be an uncomfortable truth for some people.

edit: with that said, if we start getting shelled in game 4, I pull him half way through and don't think twice about it.
I agree with that, if we're down 2-0 with a questionable goal against in the 1st period of game 4 you have no choice but to put Osgood in.

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04-19-2010, 08:25 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Good god no its not.

How many saves did you want Howard to have before the players stopped watching and started helping his ass out on the first goal? You, in no way can blame him. Please elaborate if you want to because I am DYING to understand that one.
On the first goal he was spinning around and his positioning kept him from seeing that last shot. And the first two weren't that hard to stop (third was just a lucky break whoever it hit). It's not like he is making a bunch of leg stops then getting beat afterwards.

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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
The second one, You could blame Howard but you could also blame Abdelkader too who let up on his man (Wolski) to follow the play and it popped right back to him.
And the problem is you are attacking my assessment which blames both parties for those plays. Howard's horrible rebound and Abdelkader not being on his man.

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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Third goal, that was just a damn sexy goal that caught Rafalski making a stupid defensive play and Lidstrom reacting too slow.
I agree with that.

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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Forth goal was Howard. Lidstrom and Kronwall both took the guy who made the drop pass, which let Vrbata skate it in. Honestly, watching the replay, I blame Ericsson on this one. What a dumbass for making the switch while the play was going that way; STAY WITH THE PLAY FOR ONCE.
In all honesty Howard is the only one who should be blame on that goal. Easy shot short side and he just misses it. Low angle shots are going to happen and the goaltender should think of those as gifts to pad their stats.

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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Too many players played like ****. Pavel wasnt very good regardless of what anyone wants to explain, Hank was ****, Fils goal was weak and Franzen wasnt really dominant either. Everyone needs to grab the smelling salts and get their **** going.
Which is what I said, including Howard.

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04-19-2010, 08:30 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Osgood is done, he played well in the playoffs last year behind the best team ever assembled in a post-cap era. He should've won the Conn Smythe. It ain't happening again.
Maybe, maybe not. Weren't we saying the same things at the end of 2009?

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Let's cut the crap, Osgood would've let in the same number of goals in game 3 with how the defense has played, maybe more.
Maybe, maybe not. The thing is, I don't see too many people actually admitting how poor Howard was in game 3. Seems like most people (like you, just now) write off the largest part of his performance to 'the defense'. Well, it wasn't 'the defense' that kicked a soft rebound on a limp shot right to the top of the paint to get popped right back in, and it wasn't 'the defense' that gave up a horrendous short sider from 20+ feet, either.

And it's not like Howard was making any particularly impressive saves, either.

Now, considering Osgood is either a) done or b) so not game sharp that you couldn't tell the difference, sure, having him in there totally cold probably wouldn't have gone too well. I'd at least have liked to seen him readied enough to be an option, though.

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Expecting Chris Osgood to come in and steal a game is some kind of faith. Had we given Osgood the bulk of starts that he apparently needed to play any resemblance of NHL hockey we probably wouldn't be here.
Enh. Babcock could have gotten Osgood one or two more starts at the end of the year without jeopardizing anything, really.

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So if we lose the series, we're going to see threads about 'omg how could babcock not play osgood!!!!!'. I mean, what happens if Osgood comes in and sucks? Not only did we play with a rookie goalies confidence we just threw a grenade into a crowded room.
If Osgood comes in and sucks after Howard got benched for sucking, what's the difference? I fail to see how Howard's confidence is any more shaken by sucking in 5 games and losing the starting gig as opposed to sucking in 5 or 6 games and losing a series.

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I get your point, you think Osgood should've played more just incase what actually happened, happened. But besides his legendary Nashville game were you really 100% confident and just how confident are you now that Osgood can come in and go MVP again? I can't see it being better odds than Howard merely playing better.
Of course I'm not 100% confident. Even if Babcock got Osgood a couple more starts to end the year I wouldn't be 100% confident bringing him in in a relief role. I just think leaving him on the bench while Howard melts looks really stupid. If Howard stops melting, terrific. If Howard keeps melting, it sure would be nice to be able to tap Osgood on the shoulder and not have to go back to January to count his second start.

I mean, come on. Osgood's been not just a good, not even great, but an elite goalie that past two playoffs... and Babcock has worked out the rotation in such a manner than it's borderline impossible to bring him in to relieve a rookie goaltender?

That doesn't sound a little, um, strange?

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04-19-2010, 08:39 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by jacK View Post
for as much as HD over-thinks things, he's really missing this. Howie had nothing short of an amazing season, with visions of franchise goalie dancing in Holland's head. now he's considering giving him the hook [in favor of the one of the worst goalies in the NHL this year] after 3 playoff games, where his team has played 2 good periods of a possible 9?
very short-sighted.
Why? I've seen a couple people make this case, and it seems silly to me.

It appears you are making the argument that Howard playing badly for the rest of the series and losing would somehow be better for his confidence and development than playing badly for the first 4 or 5 and getting yanked.

In what way does that make sense? Those last two poor starts would really help him out, would they?

And also, I just have to point out a basic inconsistency I am seeing in this strident defense of Howard...

... doesn't Osgood get any slack for his play this year based on how badly the team was playing in front of him?

It sure looks like Howard's bad record and production is being excused because the team in front of him wasn't playing well enough. Last time I checked, it isn't like the Wings were doing too terribly much in front of Osgood while he was losing 9 games out of 10 and putting up poor numbers, either.

Look, if Howard gets a pass because the Wings don't have him in a bubble, it seems more than a little coincidental that Osgood didn't get that same leeway a few months ago.

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Old
04-19-2010, 08:40 PM
  #108
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Osgood did let in a few questionable ones in the Finals last season, it didn't represent his performance through the playoffs but it was costly as all hell anyway.

Osgood did have a great 08 playoff and was instrumental in that Cup run but here's the thing, he can't keep that up. Like with most so and so goalies in the NHL you never know what Osgood you'll get. He could come in and win a game that we have no business winning, he could come in and set us back 0-4 in a game we need to win. Howard can do both as well, it's a toss-up. In the event of a toss-up you go with what you have and only make a change when you really need to i.e. in the event of a total meltdown.

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04-19-2010, 08:42 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Thats the different between people who just dont understand the entire picture and those who do. Sometimes you gotta lose to win, play through the hard times for kids to grow. Detroit fans are the most SPOILED fan group on here. Hey, I want to win every year along with the next guy but you wont see me after the playoff season say "Should have benched Datsyuk in the 04-05, 05-06 playoffs"... People need to stop with their whining BS and realize what kind of LONG TERM affect this could have on the team. We've all seen 4 cups and 6 finals appearences in the past 15 years, good god.. Some teams like Buffalo, Ottawa and Edmonton saw it only once, while who knows how many NEVER SAW IT...

Play Howard, win or lose. Pulling a rookie when he's in the learning process is by far the dumbest thing to do for any organization who actually see's a future in him.
Dead on. Besides, Osgood has done nothing but look terrible in the last few times he's played. Granted it's only been a few starts here and there but there is a reason why Babcock isn't playing him. Howard has gotten us to the post season, let him grow.

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04-19-2010, 08:50 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Maybe, maybe not. Weren't we saying the same things at the end of 2009?
I just don't think that well has any water left.

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Maybe, maybe not. The thing is, I don't see too many people actually admitting how poor Howard was in game 3. Seems like most people (like you, just now) write off the largest part of his performance to 'the defense'. Well, it wasn't 'the defense' that kicked a soft rebound on a limp shot right to the top of the paint to get popped right back in, and it wasn't 'the defense' that gave up a horrendous short sider from 20+ feet, either.

And it's not like Howard was making any particularly impressive saves, either.
I don't think I ever really disagreed, I just mentioned the defense to point out that starting Osgood at this point won't make a difference and could have a longer lasting effect. I mentioned in the GDT that Howard had Manny Legace'd it up through the first few games, so don't think I'm giving him any sort of pass.

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Now, considering Osgood is either a) done or b) so not game sharp that you couldn't tell the difference, sure, having him in there totally cold probably wouldn't have gone too well. I'd at least have liked to seen him readied enough to be an option, though.
I guess the difference is that some people (me) believe there was nothing to ready. Which is why I've brought up a few times about him probably being a 1.4m blackhole next season who cannot contribute anything to the team since he needs constant starts to be any sort of productive.

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Enh. Babcock could have gotten Osgood one or two more starts at the end of the year without jeopardizing anything, really.
Agreed. But going by the Osgood workload to effectiveness scale a start or two wouldn't had done anything.

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If Osgood comes in and sucks after Howard got benched for sucking, what's the difference? I fail to see how Howard's confidence is any more shaken by sucking in 5 games and losing the starting gig as opposed to sucking in 5 or 6 games and losing a series.
It might not matter or it could have long lasting effects. I think there's a fine line but I guess the easiest out is to say Howard will probably be here for the next few years at least, Osgood won't. I guess I just don't look at Osgood as some ace in the hole when goaltending has been one of the bigger problems but not the biggest.

Quote:
I mean, come on. Osgood's been not just a good, not even great, but an elite goalie that past two playoffs... and Babcock has worked out the rotation in such a manner than it's borderline impossible to bring him in to relieve a rookie goaltender?

That doesn't sound a little, um, strange?
I don't know. Osgood was brutal in '09 then stepped it up in the playoffs then brutal in '10 and we're hoping for another DJ special 'miracle' run. I'll just say it again, I believe the well is dry and don't need the visual to be confident enough of that.

I hope to god if it comes to that and Howard sucks early in game 4 Osgood can serve me up some crow.

I mean, Holland knows Osgood better than anyone. In these post-game meetings with Babcock and Holland if Holland believed 100% that Osgood could be the turning point of the series don't you think Babcock would at least give it some credence? In Babcock's interviews he said he's never even given playing Osgood a thought. I think a guy who's been here since Osgood was brought back has some idea of what's left in the tank. Especially a guy who's gotten so much out of seemingly so little in some cases.

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04-19-2010, 08:55 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by TheOtherOne View Post
This is the perfect quote for showcasing why your reasoning is flawed. You might even be right, maybe a miracle would have occurred and Ozzy would be carrying us every game had a different choice been made 3 weeks ago. But you make it sound like it's black or white, win or lose.
Why do you say that? All I am saying is that I wish Babcock would of at least made the possibility to switch to Osgood somewhat reasonable in the event Howard did what Howard is doing.

By not doing that, by (extending the metaphor) welding the wheel in one position and damning the consequences, what Babcock's done is pretty much forced himself to leave a goaltender who has been brilliant in the last two playoffs on the bench while a goaltender who is so far absolutely a mile away from brilliant struggles.

Seems like a misuse of resources to me.

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If we lose, there will be a lot of things that will have contributed to it. Nobody is blindly worshipping Jimmy when they suggest that the goaltending decision is not one of those things.
But be honest, that's not really what is happening here. Not only is the goaltending decision not being looked at as one of those things, but Howard's play overall is being excused because the team in front of him isn't in full lockdown mode.

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It just means that in that case there was no right decision, and the rest of our team couldn't make up for it. You don't get around an iceberg by steering into another one.
You also don't get around an iceberg by driving dead into it and then going all ahead full when the bow crashes into the ice.

If Chris Osgood hadn't been borderline dominant for the past two playoffs, and hadn't been borderline dominant in a playoff after having a terrible regular season, this wouldn't even be an issue. It'd be really tough to imagine a different goalie coming in and being a difference maker.

But, he has been. He's done it already. That makes a difference in how I view this situation.

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04-19-2010, 09:02 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I just don't think that well has any water left.
And, again, weren't we saying the same things at the end of 2009?

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I don't think I ever really disagreed, I just mentioned the defense to point out that starting Osgood at this point won't make a difference and could have a longer lasting effect.
Since Osgood was mothballed you are more likely to be right. Had Osgood gotten a few more games you would be more likely to be not right.

As far as a 'longer last effect' goes... I just don't see it. Howard was pulled out of a semi-final game in the NCAAs one year and came back in the next one to lose in a 1-0 classic. I have a hard time believing getting pulled after playing badly in 4 or 5 games would have some huge deleterious effect that playing badly in 5 or 6 games and losing a series would not.

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I guess the difference is that some people (me) believe there was nothing to ready. Which is why I've brought up a few times about him probably being a 1.4m blackhole next season who cannot contribute anything to the team since he needs constant starts to be any sort of productive.
Always possible, and if Osgood hadn't turned his game around for the playoffs in 2009 in exactly the same way we're talking about here it'd be a lot easier to believe, too.

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Agreed. But going by the Osgood workload to effectiveness scale a start or two wouldn't had done anything.
It'd make him more game ready than he is now.

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It might not matter or it could have long lasting effects.
IMO, what you are saying here makes very, very little sense.

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I hope to god if it comes to that and Howard sucks early in game 4 Osgood can serve me up some crow.
I'd settle for Howard to stop playing like Tim Chevaldae. If I never see Osgood play another game again I couldn't care less... I just want the Wings to win, and I hate seeing decisions made that seem to me to be blunders that might prevent them from having their best chance to do so.

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04-19-2010, 09:07 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
And, again, weren't we saying the same things at the end of 2009?
Not me. I was always behind Osgood starting in the playoffs over Conklin. I believed him when he said he'd be ready.

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It'd make him more game ready than he is now.
I just read 3 pages of a medical journal, I guess that makes me more ready to be a doctor. (too strong of a hyperbole? )

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I'd settle for Howard to stop playing like Tim Chevaldae. If I never see Osgood play another game again I couldn't care less... I just want the Wings to win, and I hate seeing decisions made that seem to me to be blunders that might prevent them from having their best chance to do so.
I don't disagree and I don't think it's beyond possible for Osgood to come in and play. I just think starting him for game 4 is a mistake. And if we're down 1-3 in game 5 it would be a bigger mistake. Howard is either going to play himself into a game 5 start or an early offseason.

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04-19-2010, 09:12 PM
  #114
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Play Howard, win or lose. Pulling a rookie when he's in the learning process is by far the dumbest thing to do for any organization who actually see's a future in him.
That's a statement about as absent any real grasp on the mind of an athlete as I'll have an opportunity to see here, I think.

Again, somebody needs to explain how losing a series in 6 games when you play badly the whole time is somehow less adverse to playing badly in the first three or four games of a series and getting pulled.

'Gee, I'm really glad I got to be on the ice and play like ass for all 6 of those games. Man, if the team had pulled my after I stunk up the first period of game 4 I don't know that I would ever have recovered. Being able to suck for that whole playoff round was a real learning experience.'

Ridiculous.

These are goalies, for crying out loud. They get pulled all the time. If Jimmy Howard is so fragile that getting pulled in game 4 will derail his career as an NHL netminder... I think that tells us all we really need to know about Jimmy Howard's ability to be an NHL netminder.

Jimmy Howard has been pulled before in a playoff game, back in the NCAAs. He appeared to have survived the experience despite being a bunch younger then. He's been pulled as a goalie in the AHL. He has sucked as a goalie in the AHL. He has excelled as a goalie in the AHL.

This is part of the reason Detroit waits so long to bring guys up, so the first setback they experience isn't cause for an angst-laden night clutching their blankie.

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04-19-2010, 09:17 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Not me. I was always behind Osgood starting in the playoffs over Conklin. I believed him when he said he'd be ready.
Uh-huh.

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I just read 3 pages of a medical journal, I guess that makes me more ready to be a doctor. (too strong of a hyperbole? )
A bit.

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I don't disagree and I don't think it's beyond possible for Osgood to come in and play. I just think starting him for game 4 is a mistake. And if we're down 1-3 in game 5 it would be a bigger mistake. Howard is either going to play himself into a game 5 start or an early offseason.
Based on where Babcock has steered us, I agree. I just wish he hadn't steered us here in the first place.

I just hope Howard stops sucking soon. That would be nice. I don't want to spend a whole offseason wondering if Osgood could have made a difference while staring at a >3.5 GAA and a <.890 save percentage from Howard. I really don't. Between that, Hudler and Cleary's contracts I might weep.

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04-19-2010, 09:18 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Uh-huh.



A bit.



Based on where Babcock has steered us, I agree. I just wish he hadn't steered us here in the first place.

I just hope Howard stops sucking soon. That would be nice. I don't want to spend a whole offseason wondering if Osgood could have made a difference while staring at a >3.5 GAA and a <.890 save percentage from Howard. I really don't. Between that, Hudler and Cleary's contracts I might weep.
I really don't care who's in the net tomorrow! If they don't play great the DRW will lose. The rest of the team needs to step it up. Has anyone noticed how nobody for the DRW is getting to front of the net, many times Bryz has given up long rebounds and nobody has been there to bury it.

Wake the **** up and start playing.

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04-19-2010, 09:18 PM
  #117
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In this series, there's only one way Ozzie starts.
If howard gets yanked mid-game, and Ozzie comes in and plays, Ozzie might get a shot to start the next game, depending on how he looked.

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04-19-2010, 09:21 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by The Gibson Cup View Post
I really don't care who's in the net tomorrow! If they don't play great the DRW will lose. The rest of the team needs to step it up. Has anyone noticed how nobody for the DRW is getting to front of the net, many times Bryz has given up long rebounds and nobody has been there to bury it.

Wake the **** up and start playing.
100 percent agree.
We're not getting to the net.

And our play in our own end, by VETERANS, has been embarrassing.

We used to go entire entire weeks without seeing as many atrocious mistakes as the Wings made in their own end yesterday.

That's why the Wings have been able to win with average unspectacular goaltending in the past.

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04-19-2010, 09:25 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Uh-huh.
You're not seriously going to make me go back and dig up posts from last March, are you?

Maybe I could just post the HiHD special of 'I'm done with Osgood this year, he can't get it done'. I would've thought you'd have more sympathy!

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Based on where Babcock has steered us, I agree. I just wish he hadn't steered us here in the first place.
Osgood's hands were on the wheel jerking us into a bridge embankment.

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04-19-2010, 09:25 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Why? I've seen a couple people make this case, and it seems silly to me.

It appears you are making the argument that Howard playing badly for the rest of the series and losing would somehow be better for his confidence and development than playing badly for the first 4 or 5 and getting yanked.

In what way does that make sense? Those last two poor starts would really help him out, would they?
you're assuming he's going to play badly for the next 2 games. it's a lot better for his confidence when the coach gives him the opportunity to dig the team out of the hole they've [all, including Howie] dug and maybe not succeed, than get yanked and not get that chance.

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And also, I just have to point out a basic inconsistency I am seeing in this strident defense of Howard...

... doesn't Osgood get any slack for his play this year based on how badly the team was playing in front of him?
i guess i'm wondering where you see a strident defense. everybody here is saying he needs to be better. you've set yourself up as the devil's advocate here to put up this facade of rationality or moderation, but it's against this phony position that you made up where everybody is sitting at their computer w/ their #35 jersey on defending him to the death. that's simply not the case.

and Ozzie had slack. many of us gave him the benefit of the doubt because he'd just carried our team to the brink of another Cup. we tried writing his struggles off by bringing up his 08-09 problems and eventual turnaround, just assuming there was an internal switch he'd flip when he realized he was burning up his stockpile of goodwill and Howie was nipping at his heels.
he never flipped that switch, and Howie took over and never looked back. that's on Ozzie.

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It sure looks like Howard's bad record and production is being excused because the team in front of him wasn't playing well enough. Last time I checked, it isn't like the Wings were doing too terribly much in front of Osgood while he was losing 9 games out of 10 and putting up poor numbers, either.

Look, if Howard gets a pass because the Wings don't have him in a bubble, it seems more than a little coincidental that Osgood didn't get that same leeway a few months ago.
is it coincidental that Howie didn't have a similar struggle with the same team in front of him?

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04-19-2010, 10:49 PM
  #121
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you're assuming he's going to play badly for the next 2 games. it's a lot better for his confidence when the coach gives him the opportunity to dig the team out of the hole they've [all, including Howie] dug and maybe not succeed, than get yanked and not get that chance.


i guess i'm wondering where you see a strident defense. everybody here is saying he needs to be better. you've set yourself up as the devil's advocate here to put up this facade of rationality or moderation, but it's against this phony position that you made up where everybody is sitting at their computer w/ their #35 jersey on defending him to the death. that's simply not the case.

and Ozzie had slack. many of us gave him the benefit of the doubt because he'd just carried our team to the brink of another Cup. we tried writing his struggles off by bringing up his 08-09 problems and eventual turnaround, just assuming there was an internal switch he'd flip when he realized he was burning up his stockpile of goodwill and Howie was nipping at his heels.
he never flipped that switch, and Howie took over and never looked back. that's on Ozzie.


is it coincidental that Howie didn't have a similar struggle with the same team in front of him?
Again I don't care if a prime Ken Dryden is playing for the DRW tomorrow they won't win without scoring and better team defense. Games 1 & 3 2 goals each game just isn't good enough.

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04-20-2010, 09:06 AM
  #122
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In this series, there's only one way Ozzie starts.
If howard gets yanked mid-game, and Ozzie comes in and plays, Ozzie might get a shot to start the next game, depending on how he looked.
I don't know if even that is enough. It isn't just the way in which Babcock has stapled Osgood to the bench, it is also how he talks about his goalies. You don't say "never gave it a thought" in response to being asked about a possible goalie change unless you've written off your backup.

The only way Osgood starts a game for sure is if Howard gets hurt. Short of that, I believe Howard pretty much can't lose the job during this series.

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04-20-2010, 09:31 AM
  #123
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Since the current back-and-forth seems like it isn't going anywhere, let me shift the focus and ask you what you think of Ozzy's attitude (http:// bleacherreport. com/articles/318486-chris-osgood-not-happy-with-new-role-on-team). My impression since that came out has been that more than his play, THAT was the more important reason that he's been on the bench. That interview combined with the apparent results tell me that Ozzy is bitter about the role he has played himself into. He thinks he is more valuable than he is, so rather than accept change and do his best to fit into a backup role, he blames coaching for his poor play.

To me if your goalie pretty much flat out tells you that the cost of seeing decent play out of him is a few blown games at the start, then he's not worth it, especially when you are barely making the playoffs. He got one start, one last chance to prove he could rise to the occasion, but he blew it. That suggests to me that if he had gotten two more starts like you wished for, it wouldn't have done him any good, because those two starts would have been in backup capacity. He would have played them knowing that Jimmy was the go-to guy, and he was only doing it for just-in-case. I don't think he could have come in to save any team with that attitude. I think that if anything, all those two starts would have done would have been to bring Jimmy into the playoffs slightly less ready.

Nobody is suggesting that Jimmy's confidence will be helped by losing the series. But the best thing that can happen right now is for the defense to pick it up and protect him for a few more games and our offense win the series for him. Hopefully that helps him going into the next series, and puts him back on his game. The only thing pulling him for Ozzy will do is destroy any chances of that happening. The chance of Ozzy coming in hot and stealing us another trip to the finals is such a long shot it's not even worth hoping for.

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04-20-2010, 09:36 AM
  #124
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I think if Babcock thought Osgood gave them a better chance of winning game 4, he'd start him. I don't think his attitude really enters into it at this point, unless it's his attitude that has made him play like crap all year.

Babcock didn't even need to think about who gives him the best chance to win when it came up after game 3. That should tell you all you need to know.

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04-20-2010, 09:39 AM
  #125
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I think if Babcock thought Osgood gave them a better chance of winning game 4, he'd start him. I don't think his attitude really enters into it at this point, unless it's his attitude that has made him play like crap all year.

Babcock didn't even need to think about who gives him the best chance to win when it came up after game 3. That should tell you all you need to know.
That's kind of my point though. I do believe that his attitude makes him suck. He has himself convinced that he can't come into a game cold and play solid. If that's what's on his mind every time he makes those intermittent starts, it's that much harder to prove himself wrong. Especially being the vet that he is with all those medals that serve as evidence for himself that he is right and coach is wrong.

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