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Peter Holland vs Nazem Kadri

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Old
11-06-2012, 01:28 AM
  #76
LeafOfBread
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Originally Posted by bruinsfan46 View Post
Holland has a better career PPG in the AHL and has better physical tools suited for the NHL, he's also had a year less of pro hockey. Holland is just better, Kadri has done very little to warrant holding on to over Holland if ever given the chance.
Ridiculous. First of all, the stats are being heavily skewed because of the 8 game totals from this year. The Marlies have been playing poorly while Norfolk is doing well, before this year Kadri had the higher PPG in the AHL. The entire team is doing poor statistically except for Gardiner.

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11-06-2012, 01:46 AM
  #77
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The ppg aside, I take Hollands 2way game and size over kadri's flashy play any day.

Kadri is a great prospect but he unfortunately has been hyped to death by the Leaf fanbase. Put holland in the leafs organization and the leafs fans would be saying the same stuff we are.

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11-06-2012, 01:51 AM
  #78
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I always have a soft spot for the ducks due to Perry and Getzlaf, more so than for Neidermayer though . However no, I still wouldn't trade Kadri for Holland and I like both, and was watching peter when he was with the storms.

As my friend Ponder said, talent and flash wise Kadri wins hands down but safer play wise it's holland. If kadri can put it together which is he is slowy with the games shown, he can be much better. Also for the point factor....our entire team has just been in a BRUTAL funk, check out these stats comparing the Abbotsford heat, one of the better defensive team in the AHL.

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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
I am assuming he will be around there if not close to it. I am not too worried as many are here. He has it in him, a hot start from prospect coming over from europe, nhl and other junior leagues have made this just a mess really.



Abbotsford Heat:
Goals in total scored the team: 33
Top scorer: Roman Horak, and Sven Baertschi, 11 points.
Top Goal scorer: Horak 10 goals.
Most Assists: Ben Walter, 8, AHL veteran. Second is Sven, with 7 tied with Steve Mccarthy, also an AHL veteran/NHL, with 7.
Games played: 9
Leading Goalie: Danny Taylor, prospect..ish. Ben Scrivens like, 26 years old, 5 games played: 3-1-1-0, 1.97 and .928%
Average Age:24.68
Note: They scored 10 goals in their first two games. One of the best defensive team IMO in the AHL, still holds the best PK unit. PP ranked 9th I believe.

Toronto Marlies
Goals in total scored the team: 18
Top scorer: Keith Aucoin, 6 points, second is Gardiner with 5 points (3g,2a), tied with Mike Kostka 5 points (2g,3a)
Top Goal scorer: Gardiner, 3 goals.
Most Assists: Keith Aucoin, 6, AHL veteran. Second is Colborne, with 4.
Games played: 8
Leading Goalie: Ben Scrivens, 5 games played: 2-3-0-0, 2.59 and .902%
Average Age:24.11
Note: We've been shutout twice already this season, prolly have started out stronger in the first half of the game but couldn't complete in the second half.

If these comparing stats don't tell how we as a team have been struggling well I don't know what to say really.

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11-06-2012, 01:58 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Agreed. I think Kadri has the higher ceiling, but I think Holland is a safer bet right now.
That's exactly how I see it.

I like Kadri's talent level more, but Holland is just a really solid player.

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11-06-2012, 02:02 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
However no, I still wouldn't trade Kadri for Holland...
I don't think anyone would or should fault Leafs fans for saying that. The only thing that's riled me up is the suggestion that Anaheim would do that trade - apparently to avoid repeating the mistakes of our past; like finishing with the 2nd best PP in the league in the season prior to last.

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11-06-2012, 02:03 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
No



No



Yes.
Nope we have alot of wingers better than kadri pro, and prospect

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11-06-2012, 02:07 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
Well then we disagree. I guess there's nothing left to do here than to let you pump some tires in a comparison thread and wait till the NHL starts back up. Personally I don't think Holland can touch Kadri's skill or creativity.



You should be an NHL coach, you seem to have figured out a way to bypass on-ice chemistry.
more skillful a better skater and a better shot to.

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11-06-2012, 02:08 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I don't think anyone would or should fault Leafs fans for saying that. The only thing that's riled me up is the suggestion that Anaheim would do that trade - apparently to avoid repeating the mistakes of our past; like finishing with the 2nd best PP in the league in the season prior to last.
I honestly can't say what would happen if Murray was proposed that trade. I don't even know what mistakes you guys made or were talking about lol. All I know is now that Holland looks like he has the makings to be a solid second line center who can produce and play an effective two way game so far.

As far as Kadri is concerned, he's just god awfully snake bitten along with the rest of the team who not gonna lie, doesn't look anything like the calder cup runner ups atm. I just hope we get it together soon. He's come a long way from two years when he was a cocky little guy with his dekes and making moves when he clearly shouldn't have.

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11-06-2012, 07:09 AM
  #84
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Both have been disappointments thus far. That said my choice here would be to go with Kadri.

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11-06-2012, 07:32 AM
  #85
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It's close but I'd pick Holland out of the two of them, safer pick imo and he has shown lots of progression. That said, I think Kadri is getting underrated when it comes to physical play. He did have over 100 PIM in his final junior year and did deliver some pretty big hits. I think he could play a more aggressive role on the Marlies but that's not what he is being asked to do.

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11-06-2012, 07:36 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Both have been disappointments thus far. That said my choice here would be to go with Kadri.
How on earth has Holland been a disappointment? all he's done at every level is get better every season

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11-06-2012, 08:04 AM
  #87
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After watching them both a fair deal, it would be tough to not take Holland. Yes, Kadri does have the better offensive zone skills, but Holland is no slouch there either, and he does possess the better shot of the two. However, Holland really separates himself from Kadri defensively and it's really not close. Peter has develop a very very good 2-way game, while Kadri is always going to be a defensive liability.

I suppose if a team was in dire need of a highly skilled prospect to inject some PP creativity, they might select Kadri, but Holland is just the much better bet to be an all around solid hockey player.

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11-06-2012, 09:34 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Vinegar Strokes View Post
After watching them both a fair deal, it would be tough to not take Holland. Yes, Kadri does have the better offensive zone skills, but Holland is no slouch there either, and he does possess the better shot of the two. However, Holland really separates himself from Kadri defensively and it's really not close. Peter has develop a very very good 2-way game, while Kadri is always going to be a defensive liability.

I suppose if a team was in dire need of a highly skilled prospect to inject some PP creativity, they might select Kadri, but Holland is just the much better bet to be an all around solid hockey player.
Always be a defensive liability? Can I borrow your crystal ball?

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11-06-2012, 09:40 AM
  #89
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Kadri has been receiving praise this year from his coach Dallas Eakins for his commitment to defensive play. Any ducks fan commenting on his defensive struggles carry no merit. I can guarantee many of them haven't watched a Marlies game this year to make a first hand evaluation like many leaf fans have.

Personally, I take Kadri. He's ready for some minutes in the NHL and possesses the dynamic skill to take him to the next level in a top 6 role. I see Holland more as a third line center that can occasionally plug into the second if need be.

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11-06-2012, 09:53 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SarcazemKadri View Post
Kadri has been receiving praise this year from his coach Dallas Eakins for his commitment to defensive play. Any ducks fan commenting on his defensive struggles carry no merit.
Commitment to defensive play doesn't equal being decent at it. If you used Eakins' words, he's actually praising his willingness to work on it, which is a good start, but it doesn't say a word to his efficiency level in that regard, nor his upside in that aspect of the game. Personally, I have indeed not see enough from Kadri to have an opinion on that, but that comment doesn't really contradict anyone commenting on the efficiency of Kadri's defensive play.

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11-06-2012, 09:55 AM
  #91
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I was in Peter Holland's grade 11 English class. He read Death of A Salesman in front of the class with Taylor Beck.

It was hilarious

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11-06-2012, 10:17 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Commitment to defensive play doesn't equal being decent at it. If you used Eakins' words, he's actually praising his willingness to work on it, which is a good start, but it doesn't say a word to his efficiency level in that regard, nor his upside in that aspect of the game. Personally, I have indeed not see enough from Kadri to have an opinion on that, but that comment doesn't really contradict anyone commenting on the efficiency of Kadri's defensive play.

Slow day huh. I stated in my post that Eakins said Kadri is working harder to be a smarter, more efficient defensive player and it is noticeable in his game now.

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11-06-2012, 10:32 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by SarcazemKadri View Post
Slow day huh. I stated in my post that Eakins said Kadri is working harder to be a smarter, more efficient defensive player and it is noticeable in his game now.
Actually, you did not state that, at all. You merely cited Eakins comments on his "commitment" and used that as an argument for Ducks' fans comments on his struggles carrying "no merit", which is not a sensible conclusion. It's possible to be perfectly committed while still heavily struggling to perform in that aspect at a good level - which tends to be why such special commitment in one particular area would be asked from someone in the first place.

That said, I am in no position to question that he's working harder and is improving, and since I have no reason for any ill will for Kadri, it's good to hear he's making such progress.

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11-06-2012, 11:25 AM
  #94
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I haven't watched enough of either player to make a clear call on this skill wise. But the fact that Holland should play center at the NHL level, while Kadri is likely a wing would make me pick Holland.

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11-06-2012, 11:50 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by SarcazemKadri View Post
Kadri has been receiving praise this year from his coach Dallas Eakins for his commitment to defensive play. Any ducks fan commenting on his defensive struggles carry no merit. I can guarantee many of them haven't watched a Marlies game this year to make a first hand evaluation like many leaf fans have.

Personally, I take Kadri. He's ready for some minutes in the NHL and possesses the dynamic skill to take him to the next level in a top 6 role. I see Holland more as a third line center that can occasionally plug into the second if need be.
I'm just going to put these two sentences in bold.

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11-06-2012, 12:17 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I'm just going to put these two sentences in bold.
I have seen Holland play at the AHL level several times. In my viewings of him he is very inconsistent. Shows up one game, invisible the next. This is why I think he will bounce between the second and third line. Consistency is key as a top 6 forward.

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11-06-2012, 12:27 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by SarcazemKadri View Post
I have seen Holland play at the AHL level several times. In my viewings of him he is very inconsistent. Shows up one game, invisible the next. This is why I think he will bounce between the second and third line. Consistency is key as a top 6 forward.
When did you see him?

Edit: If you're referring to when the Marlies played against us 9 months ago, remember he was a rookie. Inconsistency kind of goes with the territory.


Last edited by Exit Dose: 11-06-2012 at 12:39 PM.
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11-06-2012, 01:08 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
When did you see him?

Edit: If you're referring to when the Marlies played against us 9 months ago, remember he was a rookie. Inconsistency kind of goes with the territory.
You're going to make me recite games I've watched last season? I buy AHL games in 10 game packages and purchase games I think are worth watching.

Kadri and Holland are very different players. Which is why this is an interesting debate. On one hand, Holland is a safe bet to make the NHL as a third liner, with some upside. On the other hand, Kadri has the skill to play a top 6, possibly top line role. He has work to do however to put it all together.

As a leaf fan, our perennial mediocrity forces me to choose Kadri 10/10 times. The main reason being we need top 6 dynamic talent, not third line grit - something our team is full of. If it means going for the green in two rather then laying up, I'm all for it.

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11-06-2012, 01:20 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by SarcazemKadri View Post
You're going to make me recite games I've watched last season? I buy AHL games in 10 game packages and purchase games I think are worth watching.

Kadri and Holland are very different players. Which is why this is an interesting debate. On one hand, Holland is a safe bet to make the NHL as a third liner, with some upside. On the other hand, Kadri has the skill to play a top 6, possibly top line role. He has work to do however to put it all together.

As a leaf fan, our perennial mediocrity forces me to choose Kadri 10/10 times. The main reason being we need top 6 dynamic talent, not third line grit - something our team is full of. If it means going for the green in two rather then laying up, I'm all for it.
No I was asking for when, as in which season, because pegging him as third liner because of inconsistency sounds like something that a person who only saw him as a rookie might say.

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11-06-2012, 02:05 PM
  #100
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No I was asking for when, as in which season, because pegging him as third liner because of inconsistency sounds like something that a person who only saw him as a rookie might say.
I watched him three times last season. Once near the beginning and two in the later half. In only 1/3 he looked effective.

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