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Old
04-20-2010, 11:50 PM
  #26
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by jareklajkosz View Post
Well, the way I see it, Brodeur + stuff can be swapped for Backstrom. Backstrom maybe isn't as good as Brodeur, but he's far younger, and of the guys potentially available, Backstrom probably fits the Devils' system the best. Brodeur plays out the last couple years of his career in Minnesota, maybe makes the playoffs a couple times and helps Harding take the starter's reigns. Win, win for either team, IMO.
There is no chance Brodeur waives his no-trade clause to go to a team like Minnesota that a borderline playoff team at best. And there's no way that Lou would show him so little respect to even ask him to do so. If Brodeur gets traded, it's only because he wants to be, and it's only to a real contender. Someone like Chicago if Chicago bows out early at least in part due to goaltending. (Just an example).

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04-20-2010, 11:53 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
There is no chance Brodeur waives his no-trade clause to go to a team like Minnesota that a borderline playoff team. And there's no way that Lou would show him so little respect to even ask him to do so. If Brodeur gets traded, it's only because he wants to be, and it's only to a real contender. Someone like Chicago if Chicago bows out early at least in part due to goaltending. (Just an example).
But who is Chicago going to give them in return? Brian Campbell would almost certainly have to be part of it for Chicago to agree to unload that contract. Brodeur is good, but he's a high risk asset because at this point, who knows what you'll get from him year in and year out, and he's probably going to retire in 2-3 years. Also, they're right up against the cap, so Campbell would probably have to go anyways. And yes, I understand it was just an example.

I still think the Minnesota example makes the most sense if Brodeur agrees to it.

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04-21-2010, 12:01 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by jareklajkosz View Post
But who is Chicago going to give them in return? Brian Campbell would almost certainly have to be part of it for Chicago to agree to unload that contract. Brodeur is good, but he's a high risk asset because at this point, who knows what you'll get from him year in and year out, and he's probably going to retire in 2-3 years. Also, they're right up against the cap, so Campbell would probably have to go anyways. And yes, I understand it was just an example.

I still think the Minnesota example makes the most sense if Brodeur agrees to it.
Who knows what you'll get from him? Well... last year, you got a 3rd place Vezina finish (and if you look at quality of shots against, Brodeur should probably be 2nd to Ryan Miller). You get a guy who kept his outgunned team in a playoff series. Pretty good I'd say. But yes, he'll be even older.

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04-21-2010, 12:04 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Who knows what you'll get from him? Well... last year, you got a 3rd place Vezina finish (and if you look at quality of shots against, Brodeur should probably be 2nd to Ryan Miller). You get a guy who kept his outgunned team in a playoff series. Pretty good I'd say. But yes, he'll be even older.
That's my point anyways. At this point, IMO, as he gets older, he's going to start to get exponentially worse. I think it was you that pointed out that Roy retired around Brodeur's current age.

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04-21-2010, 12:06 AM
  #30
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That's my point anyways. At this point, IMO, as he gets older, he's going to start to get exponentially worse. I think it was you that pointed out that Roy retired around Brodeur's current age.
Roy retired at 37. Brodeur is 38. But Roy was a butterfly goaltender, and that style is notoriously tougher on a goaltender's body. So I can see Brodeur playing until his early 40s if he wants to, like Hasek (another non-butterfly guy) did.

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04-21-2010, 12:21 AM
  #31
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I'm not reading anything you spoilers wrote in here, but I gotta ask - how did they get that call on the Zetterberg goal wrong after video review? that was clearly above the crossbar, both from the straight angle that was used, and based on common sense using Zetterberg's height, the degree to which he was crouching, and the angle his stick was placed at.

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04-21-2010, 03:38 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
There is no chance Brodeur waives his no-trade clause to go to a team like Minnesota that a borderline playoff team at best. And there's no way that Lou would show him so little respect to even ask him to do so. If Brodeur gets traded, it's only because he wants to be, and it's only to a real contender. Someone like Chicago if Chicago bows out early at least in part due to goaltending. (Just an example).
That's too bad, I'd love to see Brodeur on an average team. Yeah, I know NJ's defense ain't great right now, but the team defense is still extremely strong, and not taking penalties helps bigtime.

At this point, though, if he went somewhere else and predictibly saw a drop in his numbers, it could be blamed on age. So it's moot by now.

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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Roy retired at 37. Brodeur is 38. But Roy was a butterfly goaltender, and that style is notoriously tougher on a goaltender's body. So I can see Brodeur playing until his early 40s if he wants to, like Hasek (another non-butterfly guy) did.
Wouldn't you call Hasek even more of a butterfly goalie? As in, Hasek is to butterfly what butterfly is to standup? That's how I see it, anyway. Which would in theory mean it was even tougher on his body.

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04-21-2010, 03:42 AM
  #33
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I'm in the OT of SJ/COL right now. Have no idea how long this is going to go.

Can't believe what a terrible play Thornton made, overskating the puck when he should have been calmly carrying it out. He's lucky Boyle saved his ass. (It's unknown whether Nabokov could have) It would be bad enough having a poor offensive record, but being the guy who made the brutal giveaway that led to an OT goal against on top of that... catastrophic.

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04-21-2010, 03:48 AM
  #34
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Wouldn't you call Hasek even more of a butterfly goalie? As in, Hasek is to butterfly what butterfly is to standup? That's how I see it, anyway. Which would in theory mean it was even tougher on his body.
You've seen this article, right?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ies/index.html

I don't think Hasek's style would have been as hard on the hips as the butterfly. I think the reason the butterfly is so tough on the body is because it repeatedly strains the same area. Whereas Hasek's seemingly-random-but-really-genius flopping really doesn't. At least that's my interpretation of it.

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04-21-2010, 04:44 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
You've seen this article, right?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ies/index.html

I don't think Hasek's style would have been as hard on the hips as the butterfly. I think the reason the butterfly is so tough on the body is because it repeatedly strains the same area. Whereas Hasek's seemingly-random-but-really-genius flopping really doesn't. At least that's my interpretation of it.
That's a good point, too. I never really thought of it that way.

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04-21-2010, 08:15 AM
  #36
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The depth players on San Jose are saving their *****..

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04-21-2010, 08:59 AM
  #37
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Brodeur for Halak? Let Brodeur teach Price how to be a goalie.

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Old
04-21-2010, 09:01 AM
  #38
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Brodeur for Halak? Let Brodeur teach Price how to be a goalie.
Is Montreal any more of a contender than NJ?

I guess they have a couple of competent defensemen at least. That's a plus.

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04-21-2010, 10:15 AM
  #39
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Is Montreal any more of a contender than NJ?

I guess they have a couple of competent defensemen at least. That's a plus.
I would say we have one more than competent defenseman and then a bunch of guys that make me hold my breath when they're on the ice. Hal Gill is really good at getting in the way, though.

I don't think we're even close to the contender NJ is, though. I think if the Devils got on a roll they could win with the team they have, we would need an early 50s Sawchuck to win.

I just think the hybrid standup/butterfly style Brodeur plays is exactly what Price should be doing. And I think he has the skill set to do it. I think Brodeur would wave for the chance to play in Montreal and I honestly think that, although I rank Brodeur 7th all time, I would choose him as the best goalie ever to mentor Price. I could be way way way off, but I just feel like Price's absolute ceiling is that of a very similar goaltender to Brodeur.

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04-21-2010, 10:55 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by jareklajkosz View Post
The depth players on San Jose are saving their *****..
You said it, man. Every big play that team comes up with, is from a grinder like Pavelski or Clowe... Thornton looks brutal as usual.

How can a guy see the things that are said about him and not at least give a better effort? Every year he just looks like he does the same things he did the year before and hopes they'll work this time.

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04-21-2010, 05:30 PM
  #41
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I wouldn't be laughing too hard, Vancouver fan. The way things are going in the West, Luongo will be joining Brodeur on the golf course a few days later.

They really didn't give up much for Kovalchuk. Oduya was a decent Top 4 dman, but theoretically replacable (the problem is that he wasn't replaced before the playoffs).
I have nothing against the Devils, it was more of a jab at rental players/Kovalchuk.

I remember a while back someone asking me, "who do you think will win the Kovalchuk sweepstakes?", and me responding "There is no winning in a competition like this..."

I hate Kovalchuk with a passion, and it bothers me that so many teams were actually willing to give half their future away to Ilya freakin Kovalchuk for the playoffs.

/rant


ps: Vancouver is only down 2-1, doesn't mean they're going to lose. All they need to do is win tonight and it's a best of 3 and Vancouver has home ice advantage in the two most important games of those 3. Kings have scored only 2 even strength goals in 3 games, their PP isn't going to keep converting at a 7/12 rate.

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Old
04-21-2010, 08:15 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by hungryhungryhippy View Post
I have nothing against the Devils, it was more of a jab at rental players/Kovalchuk.

I remember a while back someone asking me, "who do you think will win the Kovalchuk sweepstakes?", and me responding "There is no winning in a competition like this..."

I hate Kovalchuk with a passion, and it bothers me that so many teams were actually willing to give half their future away to Ilya freakin Kovalchuk for the playoffs.

/rant


ps: Vancouver is only down 2-1, doesn't mean they're going to lose. All they need to do is win tonight and it's a best of 3 and Vancouver has home ice advantage in the two most important games of those 3. Kings have scored only 2 even strength goals in 3 games, their PP isn't going to keep converting at a 7/12 rate.
The Devils really didn't give up all that much. They gave up a offensive-minded rookie who Lemaire predictably buried on the 4th line*, a #4 defenseman on a good team who was struggling after signing his new contract, and they swapped a late 1st for an early 2nd round pick.

*Lemaire only plays rookies if they already have developed defensive games. A lot of old time Devils fans think Elias would have been buried and traded if Lemaire had stayed in the late 90s.

That said, the trade is obviously an abysmal failure if the Devils lose in the first round.

I am also in the minority who thinks the trade actually made the Devils a worse team right now. Partly because they never replaced that #4 defenseman (who was the #2 or #3 on a crappy NJ blueline), but also because Kovalchuk only knows how to play a certain way, and Jacques "still living off the glory of 1995" Lemaire doesn't know how to handle him.

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04-21-2010, 08:46 PM
  #43
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The Devils really didn't give up all that much. They gave up a offensive-minded rookie who Lemaire predictably buried on the 4th line*, a #4 defenseman on a good team who was struggling after signing his new contract, and they swapped a late 1st for an early 2nd round pick.

*Lemaire only plays rookies if they already have developed defensive games. A lot of old time Devils fans think Elias would have been buried and traded if Lemaire had stayed in the late 90s.

That said, the trade is obviously an abysmal failure if the Devils lose in the first round.

I am also in the minority who thinks the trade actually made the Devils a worse team right now. Partly because they never replaced that #4 defenseman (who was the #2 or #3 on a crappy NJ blueline), but also because Kovalchuk only knows how to play a certain way, and Jacques "still living off the glory of 1995" Lemaire doesn't know how to handle him.

While Kovalchuk hasn't been great, I think he's been catching way to much flak for this series. He's been a better and more noticable player than pretty much any Devils forward, save for Zubrus.

It's also tough for a winger to fit in on the Devils, because you really only have one center, Zajac.

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04-21-2010, 08:51 PM
  #44
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While Kovalchuk hasn't been great, I think he's been catching way to much flak for this series. He's been a better and more noticable player than pretty much any Devils forward, save for Zubrus.

It's also tough for a winger to fit in on the Devils, because you really only have one center, Zajac.
Yeah, and Zajac is pulling his disappearing act in the playoffs for the third year in a row...

I think Kovalchuk plays the game a lot like Bure (with less cherrypicking). Basically, he does his thing and really doesn't use his linemates at all. The ideal linemates for Kovalchuk are probably guys who are good defensively to cover for him, and who can bang bodies around to create room for him. The Devils used to have guys like that...

Part of the reason Kovalchuk looks so good though, is that Parise is the guy with Pronger stapled to him all game.

And as I said on the Devil's board, I think their only goal in game 4 was much more Parise than Kovalchuk. Parise is the reason Kovalchuk basically had 5 seconds all by himself to skate into the slot and pick his spot.

But yes, Kovalchuk definitely looks better than most of the Devils. He's certainly playing with more heart than anyone but Brodeur, Parise, Zubrus, and Green.

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04-21-2010, 09:02 PM
  #45
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Yeah, and Zajac is pulling his disappearing act in the playoffs for the third year in a row...

I think Kovalchuk plays the game a lot like Bure (with less cherrypicking). Basically, he does his thing and really doesn't use his linemates at all. The ideal linemates for Kovalchuk are probably guys who are good defensively to cover for him, and who can bang bodies around to create room for him. The Devils used to have guys like that...

Part of the reason Kovalchuk looks so good though, is that Parise is the guy with Pronger stapled to him all game.

And as I said on the Devil's board, I think their only goal in game 4 was much more Parise than Kovalchuk. Parise is the reason Kovalchuk basically had 5 seconds all by himself to skate into the slot and pick his spot.

But yes, Kovalchuk definitely looks better than most of the Devils. He's certainly playing with more heart than anyone but Brodeur, Parise, Zubrus, and Green.
Agreed on the type of linemates for Kovalchuk. He doesn't need other great offensive forwards to play with. Just two guys that will play defense, dig pucks out of the corners and crash the net.

Yes, on home ice the Flyers have wanted Pronger/Carle against Parise and Timonen/Coburn against Kovalchuk.

As I said in another thread, I think to be a true Stanley Cup threat the Devils need to add a #1 defenseman, a 2/3 defenseman, and a 2nd line center ... all while holding onto Zajac, Parise, Martin, Green, Brodeur, Zubrus and one of Elias/Kovalchuk.

In a capped world, I don't see it happening during one of Marty's last couple of seasons. Lous should have held onto the chips he traded for Kovalchuk and acquired a top pairing defenseman or a real center with them.

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Old
04-21-2010, 10:24 PM
  #46
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I like Lucic a lot, but I have to admit I was cheering for Rivet in that fight. It takes a lot of guts for a 35-year old to go with a 21-year old at the height of his physical dominance.

The size difference sure looked like more than the one inch and 18 pounds that their official sizes say.

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04-21-2010, 10:30 PM
  #47
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I'm rooting for Buffalo, primarily because Boston has far too many posters on these boards that I can't stand.

That being said, I'd love for this game to end ASAP, so I can watch the much more entertaining Canucks-Kings.

This Bruins/Sabres series is a tough watch, very much like pre-lockout hockey circa 1998 or so.

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04-21-2010, 10:38 PM
  #48
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aww, CRAP! You just told me the game was in OT. I am 90 minutes behind.

I really need to be more careful about coming in here. I whine about spoilers in the other ATD threads but I've always said the chat room is open season... yet I can't resist when I see a new post in this thread!

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04-21-2010, 11:24 PM
  #49
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This Kings PP/Canucks PK/Luongo is just laughable at this point.

Goals on 6 straight PP chances for the Kings and 7 of 8.

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Old
04-22-2010, 12:05 AM
  #50
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Jeez, what went wrong on that Boston OT goal? First off, the pass to Satan was perfect and he was wide open. Then Miller had too much weight on his right foot and couldn't get back when Satan made his move. And, if he was able to move that way, could he have made the save with the defenseman in his way? Tough to say.

I was hoping for a better series than this. The only way I wanted Boston to win was on a Recchi goal.

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