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Old
04-28-2010, 10:50 PM
  #126
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by hungryhungryhippy View Post
Biggest Factors that led to this upset:

1) Halak
2) Boudreau was completely out coached by Martin, and it was obvious
3) The washington PP went 1/30 or whatever
4) 40 goal Semin didn't score a single goal
5) Green was just brutal
6) the Canadien's shot blocking (espeically Gill)
I'd agree with these, but I'd raise "Green was just brutal" up to #2 or 3. Unlike Semin's choking, Green hurt Washington at both sides of the scoreboard (he's the one who is supposed to be running the PP, right?)

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Old
04-28-2010, 10:58 PM
  #127
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I'd agree with these, but I'd raise "Green was just brutal" up to #2 or 3. Unlike Semin's choking, Green hurt Washington at both sides of the scoreboard (he's the one who is supposed to be running the PP, right?)
Semin should be #1. Green should be #2. The PP problem should be #3.

The Caps simply beat themselves. Semin was one of the most epic choke jobs in recent history. He had the 1-0 goal on his stick, and hit the crossbar. For a guy of Semin's calibre, it should have been an easy goal.

There was NO excuse for that horrible PP for the regular season's best power play against Montreal.

Green was a liability everywhere on the ice. He was terrible at distributing the puck, and he was terrible at defending without taking a penalty. Way too many turnovers, and twice he went to the box for it in game 7.

In my opinion, because of the nature of the playoffs, you NEED your best offensive defenseman to perform up to snuff. This is where the Pens have such a valuable asset - Sergei Gonchar. He's a beast in the playoffs. He does just about everything right, is a factor offensively and defensively, and really raises his game to the next level. Green.. he's not quite there yet, and honestly, I'm not sure if he'll ever be. Green, I think, needs to change his mentality in the playoffs. I don't think he plays with enough intensity. He makes a lot of mistakes that can be attributed to lack of focus.

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Old
04-29-2010, 07:41 AM
  #128
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Montreal dressed 7 dmen and played MA Bergeron ONLY on the powerplay.

Washington should have followed their example and made Green a powerplay specialist too. He was benched last postseason and he dang well should have been benched in this series at times!

Green is as worthy a Norris candidate as Housley ever was, no more.

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Old
04-29-2010, 09:59 AM
  #129
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- Yeah, Bergeron is as much of a PP specialist as I've ever seen. Washington ate him alive at even strength this series, he was -10. Yet he had some points and scored a very timely and key goal on the PP in game 7.

- The fact that Green will be a 2nd, and maybe 1st all-star team member and ahead of Lidstrom in voting, makes me sick to my stomach.

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Old
04-29-2010, 10:32 AM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Green is as worthy a Norris candidate as Housley ever was, no more.
I don't recall Green being nearly this bad defensively in the regular season. He just looks like has a McCabe-esque way of over-thinking everything in big games.

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Old
04-29-2010, 10:32 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
- Yeah, Bergeron is as much of a PP specialist as I've ever seen. Washington ate him alive at even strength this series, he was -10. Yet he had some points and scored a very timely and key goal on the PP in game 7.

- The fact that Green will be a 2nd, and maybe 1st all-star team member and ahead of Lidstrom in voting, makes me sick to my stomach.
Ahead of Lidstrom and Pronger. The Top 4 should have been Keith, Doughty, Pronger, and Lidstrom in some order.

Green was maybe 5th or 6th, along with Dan Boyle.

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Old
04-29-2010, 10:34 AM
  #132
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I don't recall Green being nearly this bad defensively in the regular season. He just looks like has a McCabe-esque way of over-thinking everything in big games.
Maybe it's the difference between the playoffs and regular season.

His D is "good enough" for the regular season, but when he's really pressured in a way to take advantage of his weaknesses in the playoffs, he folds.

See: Every defensemen on the NJ Devils post-lockout.

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04-29-2010, 10:41 AM
  #133
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Maybe it's the difference between the playoffs and regular season.

His D is "good enough" for the regular season, but when he's really pressured in a way to take advantage of his weaknesses in the playoffs, he folds.

See: Every defensemen on the NJ Devils post-lockout.
hahaha, man you are NOT happy with your team, eh?

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Old
04-29-2010, 10:47 AM
  #134
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hahaha, man you are NOT happy with your team, eh?
3 straight 1st round losses to a lower seed, all for the same reasons (exposed defensemen, can't win faceoffs, no killer instinct) will do that.

Devils were the only first round losers to go down without a fight. Basically gave up halfway through Game 4 of a 5 game series. Most fans noticed it, and Lemaire basically said as much before he retired.

Imagine if Montreal had given up the series in Game 4 after they got down a goal?

Hey Toronto, want to send us Kaberle for a package centers around "Captain America" Jamie Langenbrunner? He should be nice and fresh next season - he pretty much decided his season was over after the Olympics.

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Old
04-29-2010, 12:16 PM
  #135
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So Hart nominees are unsurprisingly Crosby, Ovechkin, and Sedin.

If I had a vote, I would vote Crosby first with Sedin a close second. I think that Crosby's complete game is better than Sedin's, and that his edge in goals is large enough to overcome Sedin's small edge in points.

But I would be fine with either Sedin or Crosby winning. In additional to being the best statistically, I think they were also "most valuable."

I really hope Ovechkin doesn't win based on some "points per game" argument, especially when it was his own fault that he missed those games.

Anyone else have thoughts on the Hart or other NHL awards this season?

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04-29-2010, 12:59 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
So Hart nominees are unsurprisingly Crosby, Ovechkin, and Sedin.

If I had a vote, I would vote Crosby first with Sedin a close second. I think that Crosby's complete game is better than Sedin's, and that his edge in goals is large enough to overcome Sedin's small edge in points.

But I would be fine with either Sedin or Crosby winning. In additional to being the best statistically, I think they were also "most valuable."

I really hope Ovechkin doesn't win based on some "points per game" argument, especially when it was his own fault that he missed those games.

Anyone else have thoughts on the Hart or other NHL awards this season?
I think it really should be Crosby's to lose; and not because I'm posting this from inside Cole Harbour Place! I honestly think that without him, they would have had a rough go at making the playoffs. Most of the team was playing terrible, terrible hockey for a good chunk of the season. I think one of the best things I've seen this year was a post that said "Congratulations Sidney Crosby, for banking 21 shots off of a confused Bill Guerin".


And here's a little prediction that will likely get VanIslander going:

30 years from now, unless people do the research, Lidstrom will be viewed as the second coming of Pierre Pilote. A lot of people view Pilote's Norris wins as a "bridge" between the Harvey and Orr years. By the year 2040, Lidstrom's dominant years will merely appear to be a bridge between the Bourque and Doughty years.

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04-29-2010, 01:01 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
So Hart nominees are unsurprisingly Crosby, Ovechkin, and Sedin.

If I had a vote, I would vote Crosby first with Sedin a close second. I think that Crosby's complete game is better than Sedin's, and that his edge in goals is large enough to overcome Sedin's small edge in points.

But I would be fine with either Sedin or Crosby winning. In additional to being the best statistically, I think they were also "most valuable."

I really hope Ovechkin doesn't win based on some "points per game" argument, especially when it was his own fault that he missed those games.

Anyone else have thoughts on the Hart or other NHL awards this season?
Too much obsession with forwards in the hart voting... I'd have liked to see Miller or Keith up there over Ovechkin and possibly even over Sedin.

It will suck if Ovechkin wins the hart, IMO.

One other thought I had was how just one Norris/Vezina finalist was able to get their team past round 1.

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04-29-2010, 01:16 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Too much obsession with forwards in the hart voting... I'd have liked to see Miller or Keith up there over Ovechkin and possibly even over Sedin.
Agree with Miller, but not Keith. There are so many good guys on Chicago, that he isn't really that important.

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It will suck if Ovechkin wins the hart, IMO.
Agreed again. To me, Ovechkin isn't even his own team's MVP - Backstrom does much more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
One other thought I had was how just one Norris/Vezina finalist was able to get their team past round 1.
How many of them can be blamed?

Bryzgalov and Doughty were both amazing. Miller was pretty solid.

Brodeur was inconsistent. (again)

Mike Green, once again, sucked in the play-offs.

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Old
04-29-2010, 02:57 PM
  #139
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No surprises here, exactly as I expected.

Miller and Bryz didn't make the cut because a lot of people don't believe in giving the Hart to a goalie. It's a valid point, because if we're going by the textbook definition "most valuable to team" then they have a HUGE advantage every year. No other position is as important as the goalie's, and no other player plays as many minutes a night as the goalie does. You could argue that a goalie should've won the Hart almost every year for the last however many years. You could also argue that Miller, Bryz and Anderson were ALL more valuable to their team than anyone else in the league.

Ovechkin snuck into the top 3 because some people think the Hart has become more of a "who was the best player" not "who was the best team MVP" award, so they vote accordingly, and some thought Ovechkin was better than Crosby this year, which is certainly reasonable.

Crosby has to win this though.

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04-29-2010, 04:23 PM
  #140
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My top-3 for the Hart are Miller, Bryzgalov, Sedin.. Doughty and Keith to round out the top-5.

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Old
04-29-2010, 05:18 PM
  #141
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If Duncan Keith does not get the Norris, I'll be real disappointed.

Mid-season defensive numbers that took quality of opposition into consideration, suggested Keith was the 2nd-best blueliner in the league defensively.

Add into that, that he's arguably the best offensive blueliner this year (2nd at worst) and he should be a lock. Because Lidstrom is declining offensively and Green is... well, pretty Green defensively.

To me, he's easily the best overall package this season. Doughty played sheltered minutes, I'm told, but I can't verify that personally.

Also - how does Tyler Myers not win the Calder? There's really no way he can't, is there?

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04-29-2010, 05:23 PM
  #142
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Doughty is probably the only reason the Kings mustered enough offense to make the playoffs. He was a PP beast, was the only defenseman doing anything offensively, and had to play against the other teams' best players. There's your Norris winner right there.

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04-29-2010, 05:47 PM
  #143
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If Duncan Keith does not get the Norris, I'll be real disappointed.

Mid-season defensive numbers that took quality of opposition into consideration, suggested Keith was the 2nd-best blueliner in the league defensively.

Add into that, that he's arguably the best offensive blueliner this year (2nd at worst) and he should be a lock. Because Lidstrom is declining offensively and Green is... well, pretty Green defensively.

To me, he's easily the best overall package this season. Doughty played sheltered minutes, I'm told, but I can't verify that personally.

Also - how does Tyler Myers not win the Calder? There's really no way he can't, is there?
I didn't watch the Kings during the season, but I find that extremely hard to believe from what I saw of him during the first round and in the olympics.

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04-29-2010, 05:51 PM
  #144
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jarek, that's fine if you think Doughty is awesome; he is. You might be basing too much of that on the Olympics. Keith is the Norris winner.

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04-29-2010, 06:05 PM
  #145
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jarek, that's fine if you think Doughty is awesome; he is. You might be basing too much of that on the Olympics. Keith is the Norris winner.
I'm basing his play on the Olympics? What? Did you watch the Kings much at all this season? Somehow I doubt it. No defenseman plays 30 minutes a night and not in a shut down as well as offensive role.

Doughty was second on his team in points with 59. The next highest defenseman had 36. He was carrying the power play. 3rd on the team in PPG. 2nd in PPA. Second in PPP, and it isn't close (his 31 to Smyth's 24, Kopitar had 38).

Only Kopitar was better than him offensively in any situation, and Kopitar never went up against the other team's best players.

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Old
04-29-2010, 06:09 PM
  #146
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I think it really should be Crosby's to lose; and not because I'm posting this from inside Cole Harbour Place! I honestly think that without him, they would have had a rough go at making the playoffs. Most of the team was playing terrible, terrible hockey for a good chunk of the season. I think one of the best things I've seen this year was a post that said "Congratulations Sidney Crosby, for banking 21 shots off of a confused Bill Guerin".


And here's a little prediction that will likely get VanIslander going:

30 years from now, unless people do the research, Lidstrom will be viewed as the second coming of Pierre Pilote. A lot of people view Pilote's Norris wins as a "bridge" between the Harvey and Orr years. By the year 2040, Lidstrom's dominant years will merely appear to be a bridge between the Bourque and Doughty years.
Pilote's "bridge" lasted 3 years though.

Lidstrom has been on top for about a decade. A decade is a long time to be a "bridge," I would think.

I don't have Doughty for the Norris this year, but I think he's going to win quite a few of them in his career.

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Old
04-29-2010, 06:41 PM
  #147
seventieslord
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I'm basing his play on the Olympics? What? Did you watch the Kings much at all this season? Somehow I doubt it. No defenseman plays 30 minutes a night and not in a shut down as well as offensive role.

Doughty was second on his team in points with 59. The next highest defenseman had 36. He was carrying the power play. 3rd on the team in PPG. 2nd in PPA. Second in PPP, and it isn't close (his 31 to Smyth's 24, Kopitar had 38).

Only Kopitar was better than him offensively in any situation, and Kopitar never went up against the other team's best players.
That's great, he's neither as good offensively or as good defensively as Keith.

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04-29-2010, 07:28 PM
  #148
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Noticing some of the previous betting talk, I thought I'd share that I'm probably gonna lose 50 bucks on Washington-Montreal. Gave my buddy 5:1 odds on Washington, thinking the Caps would sweep (this guy is a huge Habs homer, and has hated Ovechkin forever), but at the very least it's a sure thing that the Caps will win...[/SIZE]
Thankfully, we lowered the stakes as my friend didn't have faith in the Habs; I now owe him 10 bucks, he would've owed me 5 had they lost. Still though.

Quote:
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I think it really should be Crosby's to lose; and not because I'm posting this from inside Cole Harbour Place! I honestly think that without him, they would have had a rough go at making the playoffs. Most of the team was playing terrible, terrible hockey for a good chunk of the season. I think one of the best things I've seen this year was a post that said "Congratulations Sidney Crosby, for banking 21 shots off of a confused Bill Guerin".


And here's a little prediction that will likely get VanIslander going:

30 years from now, unless people do the research, Lidstrom will be viewed as the second coming of Pierre Pilote. A lot of people view Pilote's Norris wins as a "bridge" between the Harvey and Orr years. By the year 2040, Lidstrom's dominant years will merely appear to be a bridge between the Bourque and Doughty years.
I predict the opposite. I think Lidstrom is generally underrated around these parts (maybe not on the main boards where he is dubbed # two behind Orr, but those guys don't count) but by 2040, he will be considered almost equal to Bourque career-wise. Lidstrom has been a generational player for far longer than Pilote was.

Doughty shouldn't win the Norris this year. Keith should. As for Green...7th overall...

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04-29-2010, 07:47 PM
  #149
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I'm not sure why Keith should be loved by all of you guys so much considering he didn't really carry his team the way Doughty had to..

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04-29-2010, 08:31 PM
  #150
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I'm not sure why Keith should be loved by all of you guys so much considering he didn't really carry his team the way Doughty had to..
Plain and simple, because this isn't the Hart we're talking about. Doughty may have been infinitely more valuable to his team, but Keith was simply better. The only trophy I can see Ovechkin winning is the Lindsay, because there is no way he should get the Hart over Crosby or Hank, depsite possibly being a better player. IMO, Keith was just simply better over the course of the season, as while Doughty did not in any way look like a sophomore, I think this still was a season of developing for him, and there must've been some tougher times that are flying under the radar due to all the positives. Keith has just been an all-around beast, all year. Less flashy, but IMO better.

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