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Datsyuk Named Selke Finalist - Third Consecutive Season (Staal, Kesler)

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04-20-2010, 12:18 PM
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Fugu
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Datsyuk Named Selke Finalist - Third Consecutive Season (Staal, Kesler)

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=526313&navid=DL|NHL|home

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Datsyuk, Kesler, Jordan Staal are Selke finalists
Tuesday, 04.20.2010 / 12:05 PM
by Rocky Bonanno - NHL.com Staff Writer

For 2009-10, the Red Wings' Pavel Datsyuk, the Canucks' Ryan Kesler and the Penguins' Jordan Staal are the finalists for the Frank J. Selke Trophy that is presented annually "to the forward who best excels in the defensive aspects of the game." The winner is selected in a poll by the Professional Hockey Writers' Association at the end of the regular season.

"There are many outstanding wingers and centermen in the NHL who not only perform well offensively, but who also do the unsung, often unrecognized work in hockey -- doing a great defensive job," then NHL President John Ziegler said in 1977 in describing the reasons for the Selke Trophy.

Datsyuk, Kesler and Staal certainly meet the criteria.

The winner of the trophy will be announced at the 2010 NHL Awards, to be held in Las Vegas on June 23. The ceremony will be broadcast live from the Pearl Concert Theater inside the Palms Hotel Las Vegas on VERSUS in the United States and CBC in Canada.


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04-20-2010, 12:22 PM
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PocketGnome
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If this award goes to Staal there's something wrong. I mean, don't get me wrong he's a solid player and good defensively, but he doesn't compare to Dats or Kesler. Obviously my homer pick wants Dats to win, but Kesler is worthy as well.

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04-20-2010, 12:40 PM
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I'm fine with either Dats or Kesler winning, they're both deserving and both have local ties

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04-20-2010, 12:44 PM
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i'm guessing that kesler will win it this year

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04-20-2010, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketGnome View Post
If this award goes to Staal there's something wrong. I mean, don't get me wrong he's a solid player and good defensively, but he doesn't compare to Dats or Kesler. Obviously my homer pick wants Dats to win, but Kesler is worthy as well.
hahaha notice how it still isn't Crosby or Malkin from the Pens. I say Dats edges it against Kessler.

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04-20-2010, 01:41 PM
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Datsyuk deserves it but the Canadian press will vote for Kesler, so I say he gets it.

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04-20-2010, 03:12 PM
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I'm not surprised with Datsyuk or Kesler. I guess Staal is one of the top two-way forwards in the league, but I think there is better. Anyways, Kesler will probably get it, but Datsyuk deserves a lot of votes. Leader in takeaways and he pulls off these kind of plays:


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04-20-2010, 03:47 PM
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I still think Zetterberg is better.

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04-20-2010, 03:56 PM
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Ryan Kesler
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Born Aug 31 1984 -- Livonia, MI

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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
Datsyuk deserves it but the Canadian press will vote for Kesler, so I say he gets it.
Why?

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04-20-2010, 04:46 PM
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Why?
I was asking the same thing to myself. I mean Kesler made it obvious he hates Canadians, right? :p

I think him playing for the best Canadian team will still get him the votes from the press.

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04-20-2010, 05:30 PM
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No Zetterberg again? Or Koivu? and no Richards?

But their is Jordan Staal?

Wow...

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04-20-2010, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
No Zetterberg again? Or Koivu? and no Richards?

But their is Jordan Staal?

Wow...
For all you know Staal Koivu and Zetterberg are all seperated by one vote.

Datsyuk and Kesler will have the majority of 1st and 2nd place votes.

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04-20-2010, 07:21 PM
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Stall? Seriously?

I have a feeling Kesler will win it this year.

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04-20-2010, 08:58 PM
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Yeah I said Staal was a very good defensive forward and got a lot of flack. With that being said the Canadian press has a thing for Kesler so he's a safe bet to win the award.

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04-20-2010, 09:20 PM
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I've always found it interesting that Pavel has got the award the last 2 seasons and was our nominee this year, and he doesn't draw the other teams top line. Z faces the top competition and gets more PK time. I'm not sure how many writers are actually aware of that, though.

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04-20-2010, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Scottwood View Post
I've always found it interesting that Pavel has got the award the last 2 seasons and was our nominee this year, and he doesn't draw the other teams top line. Z faces the top competition and gets more PK time. I'm not sure how many writers are actually aware of that, though.
I'm guessing it's all those turnovers he creates. It's just such an easy, quantifiable stat. There have been some years he's had like 50 or 60 more than the guy in second place.

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04-20-2010, 09:56 PM
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I've always found it interesting that Pavel has got the award the last 2 seasons and was our nominee this year, and he doesn't draw the other teams top line. Z faces the top competition and gets more PK time. I'm not sure how many writers are actually aware of that, though.
Zetterberg is the better one on one defender and thus I think the primary reason Babs likes him to match up against the other's teams top scorer like a Crosby, cause he is so good at hounding a skilled player one on one and shutting them down.

With Datsyuk you get a completely different type of defense that really if you think about it, is so much different from the classic style of defensive forward. When Datsyuk defends a lot of times his defence takes place before the other team even reaches the offensive zone because he strips pucks often in the neutral zone or as a player just exits his own zone.

Because Zetterberg is more of the hounding type, outside of the takeaways I find that Zetterberg's defensive game is more noticeable, where Datsyuk's is more the silent type, but equally effective. Personal preference wise I think Datsyuk is the better defender, and at least this season I think Datsyuk overall was better in this regard to Zetterberg. In reality both haven't really PKed this season, thanks to the emergence of Eaves, Miller, and Helm.

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04-20-2010, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
I was asking the same thing to myself. I mean Kesler made it obvious he hates Canadians, right? :p

I think him playing for the best Canadian team will still get him the votes from the press.
That was my point, yes. They almost gave it to Richards last year solely because he scored 7 shorthanded goals, even though Pavel was clearly the better candidate.

Note to voters - shorthanded goals aren't defense!

They will be looking to give it to Kesler this year. Someone will probably cite Datsyuk's down scoring year as the reason why he lost the Best Defensive Forward award, and they won't see the irony.

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04-20-2010, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
Zetterberg is the better one on one defender and thus I think the primary reason Babs likes him to match up against the other's teams top scorer like a Crosby, cause he is so good at hounding a skilled player one on one and shutting them down.

With Datsyuk you get a completely different type of defense that really if you think about it, is so much different from the classic style of defensive forward. When Datsyuk defends a lot of times his defence takes place before the other team even reaches the offensive zone because he strips pucks often in the neutral zone or as a player just exits his own zone.

Because Zetterberg is more of the hounding type, outside of the takeaways I find that Zetterberg's defensive game is more noticeable, where Datsyuk's is more the silent type, but equally effective. Personal preference wise I think Datsyuk is the better defender, and at least this season I think Datsyuk overall was better in this regard to Zetterberg. In reality both haven't really PKed this season, thanks to the emergence of Eaves, Miller, and Helm.
Yeah, it's pretty hard for the other team to have the puck for long with Dats out there. He has a way of setting the tempo and just controlling play (when he's on). Z offers good man-to-man coverage, like you'd see from a good guard in hoops.

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04-20-2010, 11:29 PM
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The homer in me wants Pavel to win, but the realist in me knows Kesler deserves it more. Datsyuk won the Selke twice playing the PK comparable to any other candidate. IIRC, Kesler's SHTOI eclipses Pav by a wide margin.

If I were voting, I'd vote for Kesler.

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04-21-2010, 12:40 AM
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i think staal is a good choice for selke. he is pittsburgh's main PK F, and usually faces the other teams best line. he is also playing more physically this season than i have seen in previous seasons.


i was thinking teams should nominate 1 player and then the winner selected from those, but 1 team may have 3 players better than any of another team. it would have no effect on the winner, but some players would not be accurately represented by the voting.
and some teams have had multiple finalists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottwood View Post
I've always found it interesting that Pavel has got the award the last 2 seasons and was our nominee this year, and he doesn't draw the other teams top line. Z faces the top competition and gets more PK time. I'm not sure how many writers are actually aware of that, though.
i think voters watch not many games other than those of their own teams.

zetterberg is a better defensive player than datsyuk, but there are stats for datsyuk (takeaways, +/- ) more than for zetterberg, and writers are lazy about these things, so they think datsyuk is better.

no player should win any defensive award with as little SHTOI as datsyuk has.


imo, voting for most of the awards is not very good.

byng is now just points+low PIM. lidstrom should have won almost all the byngs for the last 15 seasons.

masterton is for the worst injury last season.

adams is for coach whose team was unexpectedly successful. bonus points for a new coach. i am still laughing that boudreau won the adams in '08.




but realistically, voting is probably better than it has ever been.

i found an ottawa citizen article from '54 that said many writers openly said it was ridiculous that al rollins won the '54 hart.
rollins nearly won the hart in '53 b/c he carried an abysmal chicago team into the playoffs. many writers voted for him again in '54, b/c they thought he deserved it in '53.
red kelly, DRW d-man, was the rightful winner. multiple hockey publications picked him as MVP, and he was a close 2nd to rollins for the hart. rollins was not even one of the best goalies in '54.


ted kennedy won the '55 hart as a retirement award. he was not the best player or most valuable to his team.


a couple of months ago, i read an article in an old montreal gazette that said that the NHL players would have almost unanimously voted syd howe as 1st all star LW in '40, but the writers mostly ignored him and gave 1st all star to sweeney schriner. it also said bill cowley would not have been awarded 1st all star C if the players had votes.

prior to '82, vezina was the same as the jennings is today, and 1st all star goalie was for best goalie.
but for almost all of the history of all star voting prior to the modern vezina, 1st all star goalie was awarded to the goalie who allowed the fewest goals.

that would rarely happen today.

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04-21-2010, 05:29 AM
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It's a very subjective award, so there will always be stats and popularity involved. Staal got a lot of hype for playing a defensive role on a cup win and there is a general buzz around his defensive game(personally I don't see his giant "greatness"), Datsyuk has the stats and popularity. No offense, but remove takeaways from the equation, and Datsyuk has no business winning this year. He's not PKing much, if any, and is out there to score not shut down anything. Kesler is for me the only reasonable pick of the three to win, he is checking hard, he throws his body, he blocks shots, 1st unit PK and puts up solid offensive stats. That is what the Selke is about to me. I can think of a dozen better two-way players more worthy than Jordan "best 3rd line center" Staal to win. I'd rather give Crosby the award over him to be honest.

Unsung heroes like Koivu, and actually Zetterberg to an extent etc. will never win this award because of their more silent, but yet just as effective if not more, type of defense.

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04-21-2010, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
I'm fine with either Dats or Kesler winning, they're both deserving and both have local ties
Yep, because Staal as I always say is overrated.

I wouldnt mind Kesler or Datsyuk winning it. If Staal wins it ill be furious. Kesler has been a monster defensively this year.

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Originally Posted by parabola View Post
For all you know Staal Koivu and Zetterberg are all seperated by one vote.

Datsyuk and Kesler will have the majority of 1st and 2nd place votes.
That might be true but the fact that he got one more vote over Hank and Koivu is just mind boggling...

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04-21-2010, 09:42 AM
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Datsyuk is the best defensive forward in the game. I thought Babcock did the right thing by eliminating his PK time earlier in the season. These guys have played a ton of hockey over the last few years and that gets to be a grind when you get in to May and June.

I think Kesler will win because the Olympic tournament created the kind of buzz one needs to unseat a defending champ in an award that, much like the Norris, always seems to go to the guy who won it the previous year.

Staal isn't a bad choice, and as he gets older, expect him to win this award a lot. He's got a big hockey name and he's only going to get more and more credit for his work.

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04-21-2010, 10:02 AM
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Roy S
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Originally Posted by Jussha View Post

Because Zetterberg is more of the hounding type, outside of the takeaways I find that Zetterberg's defensive game is more noticeable, where Datsyuk's is more the silent type, but equally effective.
That is interesting b/c I have the opposite take. We can see Pavel's takeaways quite easily and his defensive contributions, imo, are a lot easier to see and stick out more in our memory. Z's are more subtle. I imagine if you polled the Wings front office and coaching staff (off the record) who they thought was the better defensive player between the 2, then they would almost universally say it was Zetterberg. Their actions these last several years (sending him out against the other teams top line and giving him more PK responsibility than Pavel) certainly suggest that.

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