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I think I have a decent offseason plan, anyone agree?

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04-20-2010, 02:02 PM
  #1
El Emperor
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I think I have a decent offseason plan, anyone agree?

So Iíve come to my senses and dropped my Rick Nash idea. However, on my earlier thread, someone noted bringing in Bobby Ryan would be a good idea. So I got to thinking, and I really think it could work, of course the right cards would have to fall into place for the Flyers can even offer a contract that would stick without Anaheim matching. So here it goes, fire away and crucify me once you are done reading:

Step 1: Find a competitive team Simon Gagne would be willing to go to. Hopefully get a late 1st round pick for 2010. With Gagneís resurgence after the Olympic break, there might be team that needs a solid winger.

Step 2: Try and unload Hartnell for just about anything. I know heís a fan favorite, but he just takes way too many penalties for a player making 4.2 million. He has become a target of officials and most of the time, you canít blame them for putting him in the box. Like Gagne, he would have to waive his no trade clause, however, if the Flyers are just looking to dump him, thereís really no need to ask for much in return.

Step 3: Resign Carcillo, Powe, Parent and Syvret for 110% of their salaries as they are RFAs. Maybe offer Coburn the same salary citing the fact that he has had a down year (even a little raise couldnít hurt)?

Step 4: Send Bobby Ryan an offer sheet up to a max that would forfeit 2011 1st 2nd and 3rd rounders (this year it was about $6 mil). Before losing it, remember that Bobby Ryan is a player that has been groomed and is getting into his prime. The players the Flyers would pick up with those picks need time to grow and there are already young players on the team that will need raises eventually. I might be wrong, but I would think he would sign a long term (5 years) with Philly for in between 5 and 6 million just as a hometown discount (heís from Cherry Hill, NJ).

If the above moves can be made successfully, the Flyers would have about 7.8 million under the cap assuming that the salary cap stays the same. In terms of needs, the Flyers would have 5 Centers, 3 left wings, 3 right wings and 7 defensemen signed. Additionally, they would need a goalie. 7.8 should be enough to have room for a good goalie and either bring up a prospect or seek free agency to fill the void.

So what do you think?

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04-20-2010, 02:12 PM
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duffy9748
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Rather unlikely, but a top six of:

Richards
Carter
Ryan
Giroux
JVR
Briere

is pretty hard to match.

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04-20-2010, 02:20 PM
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We don't have a 2011 2nd, so that's a pretty big flaw right there.

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04-20-2010, 02:21 PM
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I think the Flyers should go after a YOUNG promising goalie. No more of this quick fix BS.

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04-20-2010, 02:31 PM
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A definitive improvement over the Nash trade, and easier to pull off. Add in the signing of Testwuide, and his desire to get a roster spot WITHOUT going to the AHL, and we could have one hell of a team thats already on the verge of owning the league. We almost do that already when the Flyers play their game. We already have 4 offensively capable lines, All of this coming together would certainly beef up the back two lines, and add yet more depth to power plays and shoot outs. ( damn shoot outs ).

With Sergei Bobrovsky coming into training camp, we could build ourselves a nice little power foward, veteran defense franchise here. The goalie question is still an issue as I doubt Bobrovsky would be ready to play immediately. But hey. Why not.

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04-20-2010, 02:36 PM
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El Emperor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
We don't have a 2011 2nd, so that's a pretty big flaw right there.
Something I didn't realize *darn Holmgren*... maybe instead of this year's first rounder, Gagne can bring in a 2 and 3 for 2011 plus maybe a prospect?

And about the "quick fix" for goalie... I think if Sergei Bobrovsky works out, a quick fix goalie like Jose Theodore could be good for the short run while Bobrovsky gets his learning on in the AHL (who knows, maybe he could be the guy in under 2 years).

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04-20-2010, 02:40 PM
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IrishSniper87
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I think we should all realize that Bobby Ryan will either NEVER play here, or not play here until he is a UFA who is past his prime.

Gagne stays, but I agree, move Hartnell.

Then go after older UFA's with some size who will come cheap. Bill Guerin-esque. Guys on short deals who are old vets who can throw the body around. Like a Bertuzzi, except not him because I hate him.

You get the idea.

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04-20-2010, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan333 View Post
Something I didn't realize *darn Holmgren*... maybe instead of this year's first rounder, Gagne can bring in a 2 and 3 for 2011 plus maybe a prospect?

And about the "quick fix" for goalie... I think if Sergei Bobrovsky works out, a quick fix goalie like Jose Theodore could be good for the short run while Bobrovsky gets his learning on in the AHL (who knows, maybe he could be the guy in under 2 years).
Have to be your own picks on an offer sheet.

For this offseason, a couple main priorities.

1) Find a legitimate solution in net, possibly more than 1. Sign Ellis or Turco maybe, trade for prospects, etc.











2) Everything else.

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04-20-2010, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
I think we should all realize that Bobby Ryan will either NEVER play here, or not play here until he is a UFA who is past his prime.

Gagne stays, but I agree, move Hartnell.

Then go after older UFA's with some size who will come cheap. Bill Guerin-esque. Guys on short deals who are old vets who can throw the body around. Like a Bertuzzi, except not him because I hate him.

You get the idea.
Good god I would love that. Knuble leaving hurt us too much! What about Ray Whitney?

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04-20-2010, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Have to be your own picks on an offer sheet.
...sigh...

...again, darn Holmgren...

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04-20-2010, 02:47 PM
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IrishSniper87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan333 View Post
Good god I would love that. Knuble leaving hurt us too much! What about Ray Whitney?
Yeah, like Ray Whitney. Althought he is likely to get paid more then we can afford. I'm all for moving a big overpriced contract though and making a vet winger with size a small, short-term offer.

For much of the year, Hartnell looked like a 3rd-4th liner. No reason he should be paid like a top liner on this club.

We should have kept Knuble and traded Hartnell after his big 60-point season, we would have made out really well on that.

Alas, hindsight is 20/20

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04-20-2010, 02:52 PM
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El Emperor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
I think we should all realize that Bobby Ryan will either NEVER play here, or not play here until he is a UFA who is past his prime.
Not necessarily, most of the consensus is that he's unhappy in Anaheim. That could change eventually, but I would assume any contract extension he would sign would have him signing through the years until hes eligible for UFA.

At 27, maybe he won't be past his prime and then maybe hometown discount?

If only we had that 2nd rounder, we could get him now!

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04-20-2010, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Yeah, like Ray Whitney. Althought he is likely to get paid more then we can afford. I'm all for moving a big overpriced contract though and making a vet winger with size a small, short-term offer.

For much of the year, Hartnell looked like a 3rd-4th liner. No reason he should be paid like a top liner on this club.

We should have kept Knuble and traded Hartnell after his big 60-point season, we would have made out really well on that.

Alas, hindsight is 20/20
Grass is always greener.

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04-20-2010, 02:57 PM
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It is a neat plan and worth discussing, but it is definately a NHL 2010 plan, stuff like that doesn't happen in the real world, unfortunately.

Firstly, I highly doubt the Flyers offer Ryan (or anyone else) an offer sheet, even though they should, because of the ******** unwritten rule stuff regarding RFA.

Secondly, I highly doubt the Flyers trade BOTH Hartnell and Gagne. Although it makes alot of sense with the salary cap world to just dump Hartnell for nothing and then use his money for a UFA I don't think organizations like to just waste assets like that. Plus, it is going to be hard enough to find a taker for just one of them, let alone both (not to mention the NTC's).

Thirdly, Coburn is probably going to get his salary doubled even if he isn't worth it.

Fourthly, I am currently more concerned with making sure that there is money lying around for JVR and Giroux when their deals are up, losing one of those two will severely piss me off.


My counter idea:

Step 1. We trade Carter for a third line center and some futures (highly touted prospects/picks) as he is our only forward with no NTC and will certainly give us our biggest return of any forward

Step 2. Promote Giroux to 2nd line center because it is obvious he plays better at center and give him a new, long term contract before his breakout year prices him out of our means

Step 3. Make a serious play for Price, hopefully we got a good enough return from the Carter deal to give Montreal some picks to entice them

Step 4. Give offer sheets to all of our RFA's, with the possible exception of Carcillo, I think he has earned a new deal

Step 5. After all of that is done, then you try to trade Hartnell for a bag of pucks and use that money to go find Knuble's true replacement


Next year's lineup:

Gagne - Richards - Power forward
JVR - Giroux - Briere
Asham/Powe - True third line center - Testuwide/Powe
Carcillo - Betts - Lappy

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Coburn
Parent - Syvret

Price
Boucher/Leighton
Leighton/Boucher

With a highly replenished farm system, future draft picks and *gasp* salary cap room!

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04-20-2010, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan333 View Post
Not necessarily, most of the consensus is that he's unhappy in Anaheim. That could change eventually, but I would assume any contract extension he would sign would have him signing through the years until hes eligible for UFA.

At 27, maybe he won't be past his prime and then maybe hometown discount?

If only we had that 2nd rounder, we could get him now!
If iirc Bobby Ryan spent most of his youth till this date in California, I doubt he doesn't like it there.
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04-20-2010, 03:06 PM
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I like Ryan Malone.

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04-20-2010, 03:10 PM
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I like Ryan Malone.
I don't like his salary.
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04-20-2010, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
It is a neat plan and worth discussing, but it is definately a NHL 2010 plan, stuff like that doesn't happen in the real world, unfortunately.

Firstly, I highly doubt the Flyers offer Ryan (or anyone else) an offer sheet, even though they should, because of the ******** unwritten rule stuff regarding RFA.
Agreed. Bobby Ryan is a dream. Maybe not down the road, but it is right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Secondly, I highly doubt the Flyers trade BOTH Hartnell and Gagne. Although it makes alot of sense with the salary cap world to just dump Hartnell for nothing and then use his money for a UFA I don't think organizations like to just waste assets like that. Plus, it is going to be hard enough to find a taker for just one of them, let alone both (not to mention the NTC's).
No reason to trade Gagne, but moving Hartnell seems to be the fashionable move here as well as in the front office if Holmgren's discussion at the STH Meetings is any indication of his offseason strategy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Thirdly, Coburn is probably going to get his salary doubled even if he isn't worth it.
Re-sign Coburn unless he gets you Price or Halak. It's that simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Fourthly, I am currently more concerned with making sure that there is money lying around for JVR and Giroux when their deals are up, losing one of those two will severely piss me off.
Doubt they're going anywhere for a long time. No reason to worry too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
My counter idea:

Step 1. We trade Carter for a third line center and some futures (highly touted prospects/picks) as he is our only forward with no NTC and will certainly give us our biggest return of any forward
God no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Step 2. Promote Giroux to 2nd line center because it is obvious he plays better at center and give him a new, long term contract before his breakout year prices him out of our means
God no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Step 3. Make a serious play for Price, hopefully we got a good enough return from the Carter deal to give Montreal some picks to entice them
Unless Montreal is going to give us two lottery picks + Price, I don't think of moving Carter. They have had interest in Hartnell, and if they move a defenseman, they'll probably have interest in Coburn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Step 4. Give offer sheets to all of our RFA's, with the possible exception of Carcillo, I think he has earned a new deal
Re-sign Powe and Carcillo. If you move Carle (which is what I want to happen), then re-sign Syvret.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Step 5. After all of that is done, then you try to trade Hartnell for a bag of pucks and use that money to go find Knuble's true replacement
I don't want a Knuble replacement. This funeral mentality of Knuble is starting to get annoying. He was good while he was here. He had his faults. There's no need to play him up as the savior of the Flyers just because you remember the good things he did for the organization while ignoring the bad.

I'm open to trading Hartnell.




My offseason plan:

1a. Dangle Hartnell, first to Montreal to see if there's interest. If not, dangle Coburn. The goal is Price/Halak.

1b. If Montreal doesn't want Hartnell, move him somewhere where there's interest.

1c. Check to see if anyone is willing to trade a young goalie for Parent, Parent+, Coburn, or Carle.

1d. If Coburn doesn't get moved, then re-sign him.

2. Try to move Carle or Parent. If Carle is moved, re-sign Parent.

3. If we don't get Price/Halak re-sign Ellis or Turco, whoever comes cheapest.

4. If we don't get a good young back-up, re-sign Leighton cheap and let him fight it out with Bobrovsky and Boucher.

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04-20-2010, 03:10 PM
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If we move salary, then we should not be handing out any big deals that are not for a goalie. We should hold onto JVR and Giroux and will need that capspace to do so. I am on the boat to pickup an Ellis or Turco for 2 years until an Eriksson or Bobrovsky or whomever else we will probably pick up can play.

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04-20-2010, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan333 View Post
Something I didn't realize *darn Holmgren*... maybe instead of this year's first rounder, Gagne can bring in a 2 and 3 for 2011 plus maybe a prospect?

And about the "quick fix" for goalie... I think if Sergei Bobrovsky works out, a quick fix goalie like Jose Theodore could be good for the short run while Bobrovsky gets his learning on in the AHL (who knows, maybe he could be the guy in under 2 years).

You have to have your own picks for offer sheets, so the only thing we could do would be to trade Gagne to Phoenix and reacquire the 2nd from the Carcillo/Upshall deal.

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04-20-2010, 03:37 PM
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First step has to be to identify the goalie you think can be the guy moving forward. If you think it's Bobrovsky or somebody in the system, fine, a short term guy like Dan Ellis or Marty Turco, backed up by Boucher or Leighton is the way to go.

If you think it's Price, then be prepared to pay a premium.

No matter what they do, moving a big contract is probably a must. I don't think it's possible to trade Briere, so that leaves Gagne, Hartnell or Timonen.

Timonen gets you the most value, Gagne is probably the most palatable to other teams because it's the shortest, and Hartnell's is intriguing, because he's young enough and has size and is coming off a stretch of 5 or 6 straight 20+ goal seasons.

Depending on what happens in goal, I can't simply say to trade a guy for whatever the market will bear.

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04-20-2010, 03:41 PM
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I'm still focusing on the playoffs. Too early to worry about offseason. Do that when there are no more games to play.

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04-20-2010, 03:46 PM
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IrishSniper87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan333 View Post
Not necessarily, most of the consensus is that he's unhappy in Anaheim. That could change eventually, but I would assume any contract extension he would sign would have him signing through the years until hes eligible for UFA.

At 27, maybe he won't be past his prime and then maybe hometown discount?

If only we had that 2nd rounder, we could get him now!
Where did you hear that?

I have never heard anything about that. Plus he has lived in Cali for YEARS.

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04-20-2010, 03:55 PM
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BillyShoe1721
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Bobby Ryan isn't coming to Philadelphia, at least not until he is a UFA (still unlikely then).

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04-20-2010, 03:56 PM
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Yes, Bobby Ryan is from Cheery Hill. However, spent most of his youth in Cali. I don't think he will ever play for Philly. As much as I'd love to see him here. He has great amount of talent.

Our main proiority this off season is goaltending. Everything else comes second hand.

If we got rid of Carter well you just got rid of one of your highest goal scorers on your team.

IMO I want to see either Hartnell or Briere gone. They make way too much money for what they attempt to bring.

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