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Old
04-21-2010, 10:51 PM
  #26
massivegoonery
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Originally Posted by Franzenstein View Post
Sorry for making such a huge mistake. I can't believe I did that. Let me correct myself....I can't imagine who would pick up Campbell's contract. It has to be the 2nd worst contract in the league.

Not sure what point you're trying to make, maybe you should come in here and discuss your teams Cap number w/ us instead of defending your overpaid blue-liner. just sayin'
Overpaid or not, he's still a very good player. Given his salary, he would probably be hard to move but he's still highly valued on the Hawks and I doubt that they really want to move him.

Huet, on the other hand, has a horrible contract and has to go. I don't think a trade is possible so I am hopeful for him to be buried or (at least) bought out.

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04-21-2010, 10:52 PM
  #27
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The thing about the contracts they have to get rid of is, everybody in the league knows they're screwed. I don't see any team running in to Chicago before July 1st and taking a huge contract off their books...they've got some RFA's that might get poached, but nobody will take a huge contract off of their books.

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04-21-2010, 11:05 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
Overpaid or not, he's still a very good player. Given his salary, he would probably be hard to move but he's still highly valued on the Hawks and I doubt that they really want to move him.

Huet, on the other hand, has a horrible contract and has to go. I don't think a trade is possible so I am hopeful for him to be buried or (at least) bought out.
Tagging rule prevents him from being buried until after the season starts. You're stuck him and dealing with the cap issues that go along with him. Unless there's a trade out there. IMO that's not going to happen.

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04-21-2010, 11:15 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by The Gibson Cup View Post
Tagging rule prevents him from being buried until after the season starts. You're stuck him and dealing with the cap issues that go along with him. Unless there's a trade out there. IMO that's not going to happen.
Sure, but the Hawks can exceed the cap by 10% in the offseason which is conveniently just about what Huet makes. So if they're going to bury him, they do it when the season starts.

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04-21-2010, 11:17 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by PocketGnome View Post
The thing about the contracts they have to get rid of is, everybody in the league knows they're screwed. I don't see any team running in to Chicago before July 1st and taking a huge contract off their books...they've got some RFA's that might get poached, but nobody will take a huge contract off of their books.
This doesn't make any sense. A general manager of a hockey team isn't trying to screw over another team, he's trying to improve his own club.

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04-21-2010, 11:32 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
This doesn't make any sense. A general manager of a hockey team isn't trying to screw over another team, he's trying to improve his own club.
It does, actually, make SOME sense.

Example:

Team A has a terrible cap situation. They need to unload Player A or else they'll have issues keeping Player B and/or Player C

Team B and Team C may not see screwing over team A as a primary goal, by screwing them over, they're more likely to see Player B and/or C offloaded either through trade or free agency, thus allowing them to make a run at B or C, and therefore improving their team.

So yes, although GM's may not be out 100% just to mess with other teams and make them do terrible, it may make sense to do so to further one's own goals.

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04-21-2010, 11:35 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
Sure, but the Hawks can exceed the cap by 10% in the offseason which is conveniently just about what Huet makes. So if they're going to bury him, they do it when the season starts.

That leaves about 2m to sign 9 players. And something else, Niemi is going to arbitration. And as good as you guys say he is, he himself is going to eat the 2m of cap space. You guys just refuse to admit this year is your shot at the cup because next years team isn't going to look anything close to this years team.

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04-21-2010, 11:37 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
This doesn't make any sense. A general manager of a hockey team isn't trying to screw over another team, he's trying to improve his own club.
How is filling his cap space with bad contracts improving his team?

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04-21-2010, 11:49 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by The Gibson Cup View Post
How is filling his cap space with bad contracts improving his team?
I'm not talking about bad contracts, I'm talking about guys like Sharp, Versteeg, Bolland, Byfuglien, even Seabrook. Those guys are the ones that will get traded and every GM in the league will be interested in at least one of them, probably more. I sure as hell don't want to lose any of them but it is what it is.

A good chunk of the secondary players on the team will be gone and the Hawks will hope that youngsters like Beach and Skille will be able to step in and pick up the slack.

It's not rosy and it's not dire. I would expect Wings fans to understand somewhat as their team has gone through a very similar process in recent years and they're still pretty good.

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04-21-2010, 11:58 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by The Gibson Cup View Post
That leaves about 2m to sign 9 players. And something else, Niemi is going to arbitration. And as good as you guys say he is, he himself is going to eat the 2m of cap space. You guys just refuse to admit this year is your shot at the cup because next years team isn't going to look anything close to this years team.
Replace Sharp and Versteeg with Beach and Skille, that's about four million right there. Replace Byfuglien with, I don't know, Jake Dowell or Bryan Bickell and there's another two million. Maybe package Sopel with a late pick and replace him with Connelly/Petiot/Lalonde and save another.

You're right, the rookies will probably suck and the team will probably get crappier, sure. But rookies get better, there's good talent in the pipeline (did anyone catch Marcus Kruger's game tying and game winner?) and as long as the core is around (Kane/Toews/Hossa/Keith/Campbell/Kopecky), I'm not incredibly worried.

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04-22-2010, 12:07 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
I'm not talking about bad contracts, I'm talking about guys like Sharp, Versteeg, Bolland, Byfuglien, even Seabrook. Those guys are the ones that will get traded and every GM in the league will be interested in at least one of them, probably more. I sure as hell don't want to lose any of them but it is what it is.

A good chunk of the secondary players on the team will be gone and the Hawks will hope that youngsters like Beach and Skille will be able to step in and pick up the slack.

It's not rosy and it's not dire. I would expect Wings fans to understand somewhat as their team has gone through a very similar process in recent years and they're still pretty good.
A couple issues here. First most teams have cap guidelines to follow, so they'll take salary but are going to want give some back and most teams don't want to trade their prospects away, would you? Example Sharp for 2 prospects.

Secondly if you trade away Sharp, Versteeg, Bolland, Byfuglien and Seabrook you will have Kane/Toews/Hossa/Keith/Campbell/Kopecky and a bunch of unproven AHL players. IMO that's not the team you have on the ice today.

Thirdly Niemi is going to arbitration and you guys have been bragging how good he is and maybe the arbitrator might see that also.


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04-22-2010, 12:09 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
Replace Sharp and Versteeg with Beach and Skille, that's about four million right there. Replace Byfuglien with, I don't know, Jake Dowell or Bryan Bickell and there's another two million. Maybe package Sopel with a late pick and replace him with Connelly/Petiot/Lalonde and save another.

You're right, the rookies will probably suck and the team will probably get crappier, sure. But rookies get better, there's good talent in the pipeline (did anyone catch Marcus Kruger's game tying and game winner?) and as long as the core is around (Kane/Toews/Hossa/Keith/Campbell/Kopecky), I'm not incredibly worried.
And want raises. See Toews, Kane and Keith.

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04-22-2010, 09:05 AM
  #38
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It's a little hilarious to see Kopecky listed among the Hawks 'core' players, I gotta say.

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04-22-2010, 09:54 AM
  #39
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kopecky hahaha, so what i dont understand is, is they have all these players to sign, and they dont have the money to do it, then what happens?

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04-22-2010, 10:04 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by DRISB19 View Post
kopecky hahaha, so what i dont understand is, is they have all these players to sign, and they dont have the money to do it, then what happens?
They lose a bunch of them for very little return outside of picks/prospects. As was mentioned earlier, they are also vulnerable to an offersheet or two right now. I know I'd consider making a run at Hjalmarsson if we had the cap/roster space.

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04-22-2010, 10:20 AM
  #41
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Hi,

how do I start. The Hawks have Cap Problems. that's for sure.
But it's not as bad as some will say.

Our #1 Problem is Huet. We need to get his contract away. Bury him, Nylander him or (who know, everyday one stupid guy get's up in the morning) trade him.


I have a (possible) Roster with Resigned Players and that would Work with the Cap.

Player who leave us (no matter why or how):
Huet
Sopel
Eager
Burish or Fraser
Madden
Johnsson
Sharp
Byfuglien
Boynton
I hope I don't forget one.


(the Cap is with a 0.9 Mio Raise and I think the $ should be OK for the Resigned Players)

* = New or Resigned

2010-2011 Chicago Blackhawks

Jonathan Toews — $6,300,000
Patrick Kane — $6,300,000
Marian Hossa — $5,275,000
Patrick Sharp — $3,900,000
Dave Bolland — $3,375,000
* Andrew Ladd — $2,100,000
* Kyle Beach -- $1,200,000
Tomas Kopecky — $1,200,000
Troy Brouwer — $1,025,000
* Jack Skille — $1,000,000
* Bryan Bickell — $700,000
* Colin Fraser — $700,000
* Jake Dowell — $525,000

Brian Campbell — $7,142,875
Duncan Keith — $5,538,461
Brent Seabrook — $3,500,000
* Niklas Hjalmarsson — $2,100,000
* Brian Connelly -- $875,000
* Jordan Hendry — $800,000
*Shawn Lalonde -- $800,000

* Antti Niemi — $2,100,000
* Corey Crawford — $800,000

BUYOUTS
NONE

LOST VIA REENTRY WAIVERS
NONE

ROSTER SIZE 22
SALARY CAP $57,700,000
PAYROLL $57,256,336
BONUSES $807,500
CAP SPACE $1,251,164

Beach - Toews - Kane
Brouwer - Sharp - Hossa
Ladd - Bolland - Skille
Bickell - Dowell - Kopecky
Fraser or Burish

Keith - Seabrook
Campbell - Hjalmarsson
Hendry - Connelly
LaLonde

Niemi
Crawford

not as good as this year, but still competetiv and should be the POs with Home-Ice (not saying that we'll win the Central) .



and about Campbell. Hawks miss him now. For the Hawks, he is worth 6.5 - 7.1 Mio. I know that most of (not Chicago) Fans don't agree with that.

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04-22-2010, 11:58 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Hi,

how do I start. The Hawks have Cap Problems. that's for sure.
But it's not as bad as some will say.

Our #1 Problem is Huet. We need to get his contract away. Bury him, Nylander him or (who know, everyday one stupid guy get's up in the morning) trade him.


I have a (possible) Roster with Resigned Players and that would Work with the Cap.

Player who leave us (no matter why or how):
Huet
Sopel
Eager
Burish or Fraser
Madden
Johnsson
Sharp
Byfuglien
Boynton
I hope I don't forget one.


(the Cap is with a 0.9 Mio Raise and I think the $ should be OK for the Resigned Players)

* = New or Resigned

2010-2011 Chicago Blackhawks

Jonathan Toews — $6,300,000
Patrick Kane — $6,300,000
Marian Hossa — $5,275,000
Patrick Sharp — $3,900,000
Dave Bolland — $3,375,000
* Andrew Ladd — $2,100,000
* Kyle Beach -- $1,200,000
Tomas Kopecky — $1,200,000
Troy Brouwer — $1,025,000
* Jack Skille — $1,000,000
* Bryan Bickell — $700,000
* Colin Fraser — $700,000
* Jake Dowell — $525,000

Brian Campbell — $7,142,875
Duncan Keith — $5,538,461
Brent Seabrook — $3,500,000
* Niklas Hjalmarsson — $2,100,000
* Brian Connelly -- $875,000
* Jordan Hendry — $800,000
*Shawn Lalonde -- $800,000

* Antti Niemi — $2,100,000
* Corey Crawford — $800,000

BUYOUTS
NONE

LOST VIA REENTRY WAIVERS
NONE

ROSTER SIZE 22
SALARY CAP $57,700,000
PAYROLL $57,256,336
BONUSES $807,500
CAP SPACE $1,251,164

Beach - Toews - Kane
Brouwer - Sharp - Hossa
Ladd - Bolland - Skille
Bickell - Dowell - Kopecky
Fraser or Burish

Keith - Seabrook
Campbell - Hjalmarsson
Hendry - Connelly
LaLonde

Niemi
Crawford

not as good as this year, but still competetiv and should be the POs with Home-Ice (not saying that we'll win the Central) .



and about Campbell. Hawks miss him now. For the Hawks, he is worth 6.5 - 7.1 Mio. I know that most of (not Chicago) Fans don't agree with that.
So what many have been saying you are proving. Your core players and 7 AHL players. You can't hide Huet until the season starts.

Also, you guys have been saying how great Niemi is and now you expect an arbitrator to give a low salary. IMO he'll be making 3-3.5m.

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04-22-2010, 03:11 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
This doesn't make any sense. A general manager of a hockey team isn't trying to screw over another team, he's trying to improve his own club.
And he can do so by making offers to the RFA's not taking on terrible contracts of Huet or Campbell. Sharp would be the only player the Hawks might get rid of that people might want.

Nobody is going to take players off of Chicago's hands when they can have them through RFA or wait a year for FA. They won't be able to ship out players making a ton of money, it's not gonna happen. Why would a team take on a giant contract BEFORE looking at players like...

Niemi, Hjalmarsson, Eager, Fraser, Ladd, or Skille? If a team then decides they do not want to make an offer sheet to any of those players, then Sharp is the next best option Chicago would consider trading as Kane, Toews, Keith and Hossa are not getting moved.

Byfuglien is overpaid, Bolland is overpaid, Huet is overpaid, Sopel is overpaid. Unless you are giving these guys away, nobody is looking that direction until the RFA options are out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
Replace Sharp and Versteeg with Beach and Skille, that's about four million right there. Replace Byfuglien with, I don't know, Jake Dowell or Bryan Bickell and there's another two million. Maybe package Sopel with a late pick and replace him with Connelly/Petiot/Lalonde and save another.

You're right, the rookies will probably suck and the team will probably get crappier, sure. But rookies get better, there's good talent in the pipeline (did anyone catch Marcus Kruger's game tying and game winner?) and as long as the core is around (Kane/Toews/Hossa/Keith/Campbell/Kopecky), I'm not incredibly worried.
Kopecky? lol. hahahaha.

gahahaha lol.


Last edited by PocketGnome: 04-22-2010 at 03:24 PM.
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04-22-2010, 03:27 PM
  #44
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It's going to be an interesting off season for sure. It's going to be fun watching Hawks get dismantled piece by piece.

I still think they'll be competitors next season, but I doubt they'll be top 4 or 5 in the west.

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04-22-2010, 05:37 PM
  #45
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It's going to be an interesting off season for sure. It's going to be fun watching Hawks get dismantled piece by piece.

I still think they'll be competitors next season, but I doubt they'll be top 4 or 5 in the west.
But yet their fanbase doesn't see a problem. Someone in the Hawks organization has some magic dust to sprinkle in the GM's office and these problems will all go away. They got the dust from the guy who sold Jack his bean stock beans.

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04-22-2010, 05:57 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Player who leave us (no matter why or how):
Huet
Sopel
Eager
Burish or Fraser
Madden
Johnsson
Sharp
Byfuglien
Boynton
I hope I don't forget one.
you can't get rid of all those guys and not expect to take back salary with each transaction

and like everyone else, i lol'd at massivegoonery's inclusion of Kopecky in the core. a hearty lol, indeed.

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04-22-2010, 06:09 PM
  #47
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I dont see the problem here.

They have two horrible contracts that are as near unmoveable status as a contract can get.

But they also have pieces that people want that can clear the needed cap space.

Two of Sharp, Versteeg and Byfuglienisjinfnisjdnf can be traded and theyre fine with minimum contracts after that.

Thats a worst case scenario.

Best case is packaging Campbell with a pick and Versteeg/Buff/Sharp/Skille/whatever and getting back a pretty good player with a decent salary.

If they move one of Huet (impossible, imo) or Campbell (not impossible), their problems suddenly disappear.

They are not in dire straits. Campbell is a good defensemen who is vastly overpaid for far too long. But he can be moved so long as the Hawks sweeten the deal for the other team with some picks/prospects/players/combination of all.

A team like...Atlanta could use Campbell. The cap situation there is a joke, they just lost Kovalchuk and have very little in the lineup that can make noise. Getting Campbell and (for example) Versteeg and a 1st round pick in this year's draft would go a long way toward helping the team. What do they give back? Well, probably one of their burden contracts...someone around $3 million a year. I am not looking this stuff up, but if they move Campbell and one of the players mentioned, they can get back someone's albatross at something around $3.

If they do that, theyre fine...made in the shade.

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04-22-2010, 08:23 PM
  #48
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Hypothetically speaking, what exactly would occur if any and all possible trading partners for the Blackhawks decided to engage in a bit of schadenfreude and watch Chicago flail around patheticaly with no means of clearing cap space? Wouldn't the Hawks be forced to release players for nothing in return?

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04-22-2010, 08:48 PM
  #49
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Hypothetically speaking, what exactly would occur if any and all possible trading partners for the Blackhawks decided to engage in a bit of schadenfreude and watch Chicago flail around patheticaly with no means of clearing cap space? Wouldn't the Hawks be forced to release players for nothing in return?
These are NHL GMs. Eventually one of them would break and cave, just like they always do when offering contracts. There's always one stupid one that just can't help himself and blows the market all askew with his dumbness.

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04-23-2010, 12:20 AM
  #50
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Ok let me lay out what I think will happen

-Sharp , Byfuglien and Versteeg will be traded
-Sopel will be traded with a pick to a team willing to take his salary for 1 more year
-They will try to trade Huet but most likely I see them burying him or acquiring a poor contract to bury in replace of Huet from a team willing to take a chance on him
-Madden (UFA) , Eager (RFA) , Fraser (RFA) will not be retained
-Skille will be resigned at below his ELC around 975k cap hit
-Hawks will resign LW Bryan Bickell at .675k cap hit and he will come up to big club
-C Jake Dowell , D Brian Connelly , LW Kyle Beach (WHL) , G Corey Crawford will make leap to NHL (Beach almost made team last camp)
-Ladd will be resigned at around 2 mil cap hit range
-Hammer and Niemi will be resigned at 2.6 and 2.0 each
-Boynton or other vet UFA dman will be signed for our bottom pairing
-Burish and Hendry will be resigned at 900k and 800k each
-Hawks will pick up a #3 C thru FA (Eric Belanger signed at 1 yr 2.25 cap hit would be ideal)

2010-2011 Chicago Blackhawks

Kyle Beach (1.2) - Jonathan Toews (6.3) - Patrick Kane (6.3)
Troy Brouwer (1.025) - Dave Bolland (3.375) - Marion Hossa (5.275)
Andrew Ladd (2.0) - Eric Belanger (2.250) - Jack Skille (.975)
Bryan Bickell (.675) - Adam Burish (.900k) - Tomas Kopecky (1.2)
Jake Dowell (.525) = X

Duncan Keith (5.538) - Brent Seabrook (3.5)
Brian Campbell (7.143) / Niklas Hjalmarsson (2.6)
Nick Boynton (.900) / Brian Connelly (.875)
Jordan Hendry (.800) = X

Annti Niemi (2.0)
Corey Crawford (.800)

56.156m cap hit with room to absorb any bonuses Kane may have reached

So you see the Hawks will lose some of our depth and have to depend on alot of youth. Next year we will still be good but wont be as good as this year. It would be similiar to last season when our vets and youth blended.

Kyle Beach (1st rounder in 08) is our best forward prospect and Skille (1st rounder in 05) and Bickell (2nd rounder in 04) are both also good prospects.

Picking up someone like Belanger and keeping Ladd would still allow us to role 4 strong lines.

We already cleared Barker's salary as someone pointed out but we didn't give him away. Barker was pretty dreadful this year and we got a vet dman with expiring contract (Sadly his career is now in jeopardy) and a blue chip defensive prospect (Nick Leddy)

So coming down pipeline we are very strong defensively but weak at forward after guys like Beach , Skille , etc make jump for immideate future

Our top prospects going into next year after those guys make jump

D Dylan Olsen (NCAA)
D Nick Leddy (NCAA)
D Shawn Lalonde (AHL)
D Simon Denis-Papin (AHL)
RW Igor Makarov (KHL) (With Dynamo and KHL issues he may come over to try and win the spot Skille is favored for 3rd line RW
RW Akim Aliu (AHL)
C Marcus Kruger (SEL) - Great prospect who was a gem in 5th round
C Brandon Pirri (NCAA) - Top scoring rookie in his league beating out his fellow rookie teammate D'Amigo but lost Rookie of Year to hype machine known as Leaf prospect Jerry D'Amigo
C David Pagan (NCAA)

Upcoming picks
Our 1st in 2010
Flames 2nd in 2010
Hawks 2nd in 2010
Hawks 3rd in 2010
Hawks 1st in 2011
Flames 2nd in 2011
Hawks 2nd in 2011
Maple Leafs 3rd in 2011
Hawks 3rd in 2011

Hawks are restocking our farm over last 2 draft with some good prospect but most are a few years away. We will continue to restock our farm via picks/prospects acquired for Sharp , Byfuglien and Versteeg

So if things go as I think (Very possible in my opinion) Hawks will be weaker next year depending on alot of unproven rookies but in longrun we are in good shape and not in the cap hell that many claim we are

And we wont be moving Campbell because he is ideal for our transition game/PP and is very important to us (Just look at our struggles without him)

So yes Hawks will have to make some difficult decisions but we are still in very good shape for longrun

Hawks are actually sorta modeling ourselves after you

-Retain core with longterm deals
-Have a strong system of prospects with good scouting

So there you have it ,,, Take it for what its worth

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